Hahn Speaks

[Jose Abreu]

What's wrong with Betts? He's put up 3.4 fWAR and 4.1 bWAR this year, has a .771 OPS at the age of 22, is a solid defender and rates very well on the basepaths.

Betts has been good. Let's see if he can keep it up next year.

 

Josh Reddick is better than Avi. Mookie Betts hit .275 has 13 Hr and 20 stolen bases in 100 games this year while playing CF. Bradley was a AAA allstar this year and has hit .330 since he was called up. Again, you have to trade at the right time before a guy explodes. Now Iglesias and Bogaerts are probably untouchable for us unless it is a "Sale". Bradley is also close to untouchable now w Dombrowski. I think the Boston ship has sailed for Hahn. hopefully he doesn't want Ramirez.

I never said Josh Reddick was worse than Avi. And I don't care who was a minor league all-star. It's not like every AAA all-star ends up being a solid MLB player.

 

[Jose Abreu]

Yeah, none of those guys are overrated besides Middlebrooks. They are all average to good MLB players that I wouldn't mind having on the Sox.

That's ridiculous. How can you call someone an average to good MLB player when he either

A. Hasn't played in MLB, or

B. Has played one MLB season or less?

 

By your logic, Erik Johnson and Frank Montas are decent MLB players.

[GGajewski18]

That's ridiculous. How can you call someone an average to good MLB player when he either

A. Hasn't played in MLB, or

B. Has played one MLB season or less?

 

By your logic, Erik Johnson and Frank Montas are decent MLB players.

 

I'm saying Bogaerts, Betts, Reddick and Iglesias productive players. They have some success at the MLB level.

[Jose Abreu]

I'm saying Bogaerts, Betts, Reddick and Iglesias productive players. They have some success at the MLB level.

I already said that Bogaerts and Iglesias are productive. With Betts, I say give it another year and see if he's still playing at or near this level. With Reddick, I agree, although I wasn't talking about him.

 

It seemed as if you were referring to Swihart, Vazquez, etc.

[LDF]

 

geez .... every time i see this title, i am expecting to see some one post of Hahn sitting up and paper training him.

 

i am sorry, but that is the frame of mind i am now.

 

good boy Hahn....

[Jerksticks]

For the record I am very Pro KW&RH. Laroche was the only mistake so far. I see why they did it but damn he really ruined everything. No need to cut their heads off over it. Rebuild still right on schehdule.

[Soxfest]

Quintana should have his bags packed

I think he is going also this winter for a bat.

[SCCWS]

That's ridiculous. How can you call someone an average to good MLB player when he either

A. Hasn't played in MLB, or

B. Has played one MLB season or less?

 

By your logic, Erik Johnson and Frank Montas are decent MLB players.

 

You are totally lost in this discussion. We are not talking about minor league players. We are talking about players--Betts-Swihart-Bradley that all have played in the majors this season. Bradley has 200 games, Betts 150+ over two seasons and Swihart is a rookie who will play 75 this year. .Johnson and Montas are September call-ups.

[Jose Abreu]

You are totally lost in this discussion. We are not talking about minor league players. We are talking about players--Betts-Swihart-Bradley that all have played in the majors this season. Bradley has 200 games, Betts 150+ over two seasons and Swihart is a rookie who will play 75 this year. .Johnson and Montas are September call-ups.

I'm not the one who's lost. If you follow the chain of replies between me and SoxPride18, you'd know that this is the comment in which he referred to the players as good MLB players:

In the last few years they have promoted Bogaerts and Iglesias, two young and very talented shortstops. They have also produced Reddick, Betts and now Bradley as outfielders. They also have produced 2 solid young catchers in Swihart and Vazquez. I was not a Middlebrooks fan but they were able to trade him and they also have Brock Holt who is a super sub in the mold of Zobrist.

[Jose Abreu]

That being said, Swihart is not (yet) a "good MLB player", nor is Vazquez or Middlebrooks. You could make arguments for the others, though.

[Thad Bosley]

For the record I am very Pro KW&RH. Laroche was the only mistake so far. I see why they did it but damn he really ruined everything. No need to cut their heads off over it. Rebuild still right on schehdule.

"Very Pro KW&RH"; meanwhile, just one playoff win in the past decade with the two of them running things. What makes you "pro" about that?

 

The past three seasons, most of which have been under the banner of "rebuild", have been a disaster. Holes all over the place both on offense and defense, with no help in sight from the farm system. Yet you think the "rebuild" is on schedule. How do you reach such a conclusion, and what, precisely, is this "schedule"? Are you referring to Kenny's "three year plan", of which we are about to finish year 1 of that master plan, with nothing to show for it? And if we are, as you state, "right on schedule", then when can we expect results? Results meaning, not only a return to the postseason, but maybe, just maybe, deeper runs through those playoffs and maybe, just maybe, consecutive trips to said playoffs? "Rebuilds" mean nothing unless they result in a winning product. When do you think we can expect that?

 

We need new ownership and a complete new management team and operating style if we as Sox fans are ever going to lift ourselves out of the malaise of the non-performance and empty platitudes of the current ownership & management which year after year and decade after decade now has led us to abysmal results.

[caulfield12]

If this "rebuild" is on track, I would love to see one that's not.

 

The only team that seems like it has put itself in a worse situation than the White Sox would probably be the Padres.

 

Other than that, we still don't have anyone you can count on for a grand total of six positions in the batting order going into next season.

[LDF]

If this "rebuild" is on track, I would love to see one that's not.

 

The only team that seems like it has put itself in a worse situation than the White Sox would probably be the Padres.

 

Other than that, we still don't have anyone you can count on for a grand total of six positions in the batting order going into next season.

 

right off the top of my head and without thinking about it, the pirates comes to mind rarely quickly.

[Balta1701]

right off the top of my head and without thinking about it, the pirates comes to mind rarely quickly.

WTF? The Pirates aren't rebuilding, they have the 3rd best record in baseball and have made the wild card game the last 2 years. No one on Earth would say that's a worse position than a 7 year playoff drought.

[Jose Abreu]

I'm assuming he meant Padres. But if he meant Pirates... no, just no.

[LDF]

WTF? The Pirates aren't rebuilding, they have the 3rd best record in baseball and have made the wild card game the last 2 years. No one on Earth would say that's a worse position than a 7 year playoff drought.

geez, can you carry on a conversation without any insults, i know you are intelligent ????

 

as i said, and i never specified that they were rebuilding. it was said on a rebuild, they pirates have screwed up before they started to get their heads screwed on right.

 

but is was a thought in quick reflections.

[LDF]

I'm assuming he meant Padres. But if he meant Pirates... no, just no.

 

thanks but i did mean the pirates. they did some really screwy stuff before..... it their rebuild.

[Special K]

WTF? The Pirates aren't rebuilding, they have the 3rd best record in baseball and have made the wild card game the last 2 years. No one on Earth would say that's a worse position than a 7 year playoff drought.

 

 

Before the Pirates made the wildcard in 2013, they hadn't seen the playoffs in 20 years. So I'd say a 20 year rebuild is worse than whatever the Sox are going through right now. Clearly, they're in a better position to compete now and I don't think anyone is questioning that. I don't think the Sox are that far away from competing. They just need to find some players that can swing the bat. Probably won't be in contention next year, but if they can get some REAL offense from trading away Q, and assuming EJ can fill up a rotation spot, in 2017 with hopefully guys like Anderson and Fulmer (maybe) are up and ready to contribute. Also, with Danks off the books and LaRoche, they will have roughly $25 million to spend as well. Doesn't seem too bad. Theo got 5 years, let's give Hahn at least 3 years.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Special K

[LDF]

Before the Pirates made the wildcard in 2013, they hadn't seen the playoffs in 20 years. So I'd say a 20 year rebuild is worse than whatever the Sox are going through right now. Clearly, they're in a better position to compete now and I don't think anyone is questioning that. I don't think the Sox are that far away from competing. They just need to find some players that can swing the bat. Probably won't be in contention next year, but if they can get some REAL offense from trading away Q, and assuming EJ can fill up a rotation spot, in 2017 with hopefully guys like Anderson and Fulmer (maybe) are up and ready to contribute. Also, with Danks off the books and LaRoche, they will have roughly $25 million to spend as well. Doesn't seem too bad. Theo got 5 years, let's give Hahn at least 3 years.

 

thanks on many counts and you are 100% correct.

 

the sox fans, except before this yr, did not and will not support a full rebuild. they will show their displeasure by not showing up or spending good money on crap.

 

that has always forced the owners hand to do it correct or even go further than ok in acquiring players.

 

this is the a good enuf span that i can remember in a long time when i seen a time of the org in this state of hopelessness.

 

easy was for me to explain it, a ship without a captain who has a clue of what to do.

[ewokpelts]

thanks on many counts and you are 100% correct.

 

the sox fans, except before this yr, did not and will not support a full rebuild. they will show their displeasure by not showing up or spending good money on crap.

 

that has always forced the owners hand to do it correct or even go further than ok in acquiring players.

 

this is the a good enuf span that i can remember in a long time when i seen a time of the org in this state of hopelessness.

 

easy was for me to explain it, a ship without a captain who has a clue of what to do.

Sox fans don't support the team at all, rebuild or not.

[LDF]

Sox fans don't support the team at all, rebuild or not.

 

that is a great point i would lover to debate...... but not at this time. i will be back to this one.

 

again excellent counter.

[Lip Man 1]

Sox fans don't support the team at all, rebuild or not.

 

Have you looked at the attendance figures from the Golden Age (51-67) in relation to the rest of MLB at that time.

 

How about in the period from 1983-84...or 1990 through the labor impasse?

 

Or in 2006.

 

I think those numbers show your statement is very wrong.

 

Mark

[Lip Man 1]

thanks on many counts and you are 100% correct.

 

the sox fans, except before this yr, did not and will not support a full rebuild. they will show their displeasure by not showing up or spending good money on crap.

 

that has always forced the owners hand to do it correct or even go further than ok in acquiring players.

 

this is the a good enuf span that i can remember in a long time when i seen a time of the org in this state of hopelessness.

 

easy was for me to explain it, a ship without a captain who has a clue of what to do.

 

Well this rebuild while contending philosophy has led to a losing season (counting this year) in six of the past nine seasons, no consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006, no playoffs (in an era of parity) since 2008, the lowest watched MLB franchise according to Fan Graphs and attendance that's generally ranked towards the bottom of MLB and that lost fans from the previous season for eight straight seasons.

 

I submit that philosophy isn't working based on the historical facts.

 

"It's Time" (sorry LOL) for a change in that philosophy and if that means a total complete rebuild...so be it.

 

How much worse could it get if they did that given the facts I just presented?

 

The REAL issue though is the same people who put this franchise in the position it's in are going to be charged with fixing it.

 

Personally I don't think they can.

 

Mark

Edited September 3, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[elrockinMT]

That's just not true.

If the Sox got 3 quality young players for him who could produce right away, the Sox would be a better baseball team.

Teams win without aces (and Rodon may be that anyway).

And the Sox certainly have proven that they can lose with the best of them with Sale.

 

 

I still adhere to the notion that teams win with pitching first and then defense and then a good offense. Get all three together and you have champions. Don't trade away a Cy Young type pitcher for three prospects, who you don't know will perform. I think we saw the preferred route in building a team and that's free agency (Cabrerea, Laroche and Robertson), or a swap of mid level talent for youth (Garcia for Peavy, A Reed for Davidson).

[LDF]

Well this rebuild while contending philosophy has led to a losing season (counting this year) in six of the past nine seasons, no consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006, no playoffs (in an era of parity) since 2008, the lowest watched MLB franchise according to Fan Graphs and attendance that's generally ranked towards the bottom of MLB and that lost fans from the previous season for eight straight seasons.

 

I submit that philosophy isn't working based on the historical facts.

 

"It's Time" (sorry LOL) for a change in that philosophy and if that means a total complete rebuild...so be it.

 

How much worse could it get if they did that given the facts I just presented?

 

The REAL issue though is the same people who put this franchise in the position it's in and going to be charged with fixing it.

 

Personally I don't think they can.

 

Mark

 

a very good point, fyi for this response. i never took into account the time from 2006 thru winter of 2014, well b/c i was sick.

 

so going back on this philosophy of what you stated. it is a complete rebuild. the first pieces were sale, Q, anderson, hawkins and Jose A.

 

now with a plate of crap slapped on the face of the FO, they have to have the spin doctors come up with something believable. the problem with that, they forget the sox fans are more skeptical in what they are spewing out.

 

now my problem is i don't trust the people who put sox in this position, so i am going to continue to suffer and i will continue to cheer on my beleaguered team.

 

damn.