What Exactly is "The Plan"?

[Dunt]

The Sox have a bunch of great pieces, but don't look any bit a contender as presently constructed. I'm tired of the Robin debate. We all know he's a mediocre manager, but he's only a part of the problem. You have players that underperform all. thee. f***ing. time, you have a really poor advanced scouting department, a poor pro development system...what is the plan here? Obviously this "going for it" strategy has blown up in their face...again. Are they going to try maximizing the last 3 years of these sweetheart deals or sell and give this fanbase a chance at something more than just poorly thrown together .500 seasons? I know they're not technically out of it now, but their performance against the division is absolutely abysmal, embarrassing even. What is the plan here? I don't see a plan. This looks like a directionless franchise which is perhaps the most frustrating part about this entire thing.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Sox have a bunch of great pieces, but don't look any bit a contender as presently constructed. I'm tired of the Robin debate. We all know he's a mediocre manager, but he's only a part of the problem. You have players that underperform all. thee. f***ing. time, you have a really poor advanced scouting department, a poor pro development system...what is the plan here? Obviously this "going for it" strategy has blown up in their face...again. Are they going to try maximizing the last 3 years of these sweetheart deals or sell and give this fanbase a chance at something more than just poorly thrown together .500 seasons? I know they're not technically out of it now, but their performance against the division is absolutely abysmal, embarrassing even. What is the plan here? I don't see a plan. This looks like a directionless franchise which is perhaps the most frustrating part about this entire thing.

 

 

Half Measures. It's what they do. Try to strike lightning in a bottle. I'm not one of these people that wants to sell everything but they should probably raise the payroll by $40 million or rebuild. Can't keep going halfway.

[Dunt]

Half Measures. It's what they do. Try to strike lightning in a bottle. I'm not one of these people that wants to sell everything but they should probably raise the payroll by $40 million or rebuild. Can't keep going halfway.

 

That bulls*** JR spewed this week is an absolute slap in the face to this fanbase. You will do anything to win? How do you plan to do that? Spend money? You didn't do it when you could actually do it in the offseason when a bunch of solid players were right there for you, why has it changed all of the sudden? Are you going to trade prospects? You don't have enough to get players of need like a Lucroy. Wanna know why you don't have those prospects? Because you have never spent big in Latin America and you always need to rush any prospects with a semblance of competency to the majors Bc your major league team is always razor thin.

 

I've never been much for blowing it up, but looking at the big picture of this entire thing right now, it's probably the best thing for the franchise. Start building around Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins, etc. and get a kings ransom for every other worthwhile player on this roster. You could honestly be ready to compete by the time that 2018 FA class rolls around and add big pieces to a team full of young, cheap talent. This team is going nowhere.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I desperately want the Sox to rebuild from the ground up, but there's really no point to it as the Sox can't scout and develop young talent anyway.

 

This franchise is a wreck.

[Whisox05]

Going to have a nice farm when they start selling off Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Robertson, melky

[Whisox05]

I desperately want the Sox to rebuild from the ground up, but there's really no point to it as the Sox can't scout and develop young talent anyway.

 

This franchise is a wreck.

 

If Hahn is left to do the job with out Kenny or Jerry not getting evolved in too much they would be fine

Edited June 18, 2016 by WhiteSoxLifer

[caulfield12]

Basically, they're looking at spending another $10-15 million minimum, the rest of THIS year, to legitimately compete.

 

They're facing two teams in the Tigers and Royals with a lot more revenue or free-spending ownership or better prospects to trade or all three.

 

And the Indians clearly have the best and deepest pitching staff in the division, and that's not going to change anytime soon. With Salazar, Kluber, Carrasco, Tomlin, Bauer and then Cody Anderson and Clevinger, they've got surplus pitching as well as 2-3 really nice hitting prospects (Top 100) that are fairly advanced already.

 

In the battle for Braun, Bruce, Chris Carter, Wil Myers, Odorizzi, Sonny Gray...we're not in a position to do anything besides taking on high salary/unwise contracts, so we'll simply end up taking on more questionable veteran contracts to follow up Shields.

 

The Royals and Tigers are both surely nearing the ends of their windows (2017 for both), so Glass and Ilitch are going to pull out all the stops to get to the playoffs this season and next.

 

 

It's why I said ---K IT!, add Puig and roll the dice. If they're going to go down with the ship, let it be with a young/er player with talent and who's fun to watch instead of another veteran "has been." I'm quite dubious about Ventura/Steverson getting anything productive out of him, but now there's never been a better opportunity to strike...he's becoming too much of a distraction for Roberts.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Basically, they're looking at spending another $10-15 million minimum, the rest of THIS year, to legitimately compete.

 

They're facing two teams in the Tigers and Royals with a lot more revenue or free-spending ownership or better prospects to trade or all three. The Royals and Tigers are both surely nearing the ends of their windows (2017 for both), so Glass and Ilitch are going to pull out all the stops to get to the playoffs this season and next.

 

And the Indians clearly have the best and deepest pitching staff in the division, and that's not going to change anytime soon. With Salazar, Kluber, Carrasco, Tomlin, Bauer and then Cody Anderson and Clevinger, they've got surplus pitching as well as 2-3 really nice hitting prospects (Top 100) that are fairly advanced already.

 

In the battle for Braun, Bruce, Chris Carter, Wil Myers, Odorizzi, Sonny Gray...we're not in a position to do anything besides taking on high salary/unwise contracts, so we'll simply end up taking on more questionable veteran contracts to follow up Shields.

 

 

 

 

It's why I said ---K IT!, add Puig and roll the dice. If they're going to go down with the ship, let it be with a young/er player with talent and who's fun to watch instead of another veteran "has been." I'm quite dubious about Ventura/Steverson getting anything productive out of him, but now there's never been a better opportunity to strike...he's becoming too much of a distraction for Roberts.

 

 

 

[GreenSox]

The plan is to add veterans that they think are good and try to win. Willing to trade any prospect except two or three. Trouble is the ones they traded last couple years are likely better than any they didn't trade. The other problem is that the veterans they pick are always averageish or worse Then there is a pesky issue of near impossibility to win by loading up on veterans without a young core. Sox had a young core of exactly 4 players which doesn't cut it.

[caulfield12]

Basically, they're looking at spending another $10-15 million minimum, the rest of THIS year, to legitimately compete.

 

They're facing two teams in the Tigers and Royals with a lot more revenue or free-spending ownership or better prospects to trade or all three. The Royals and Tigers are both surely nearing the ends of their windows (2017 for both), so Glass and Ilitch are going to pull out all the stops to get to the playoffs this season and next.

 

And the Indians clearly have the best and deepest pitching staff in the division, and that's not going to change anytime soon. With Salazar, Kluber, Carrasco, Tomlin, Bauer and then Cody Anderson and Clevinger, they've got surplus pitching as well as 2-3 really nice hitting prospects (Top 100) that are fairly advanced already.

 

Finally, in the battle for Braun, Bruce, Chris Carter, Wil Myers, Odorizzi, Sonny Gray...we're not in a position to do anything besides taking on high salary/unwise contracts, so we'll simply end up taking on more questionable veteran contracts to follow up Shields.

 

 

 

 

It's why I said ---K IT!, add Puig and roll the dice. If they're going to go down with the ship, let it be with a young/er player with talent and who's fun to watch instead of another veteran "has been." I'm quite dubious about Ventura/Steverson getting anything productive out of him, but now there's never been a better opportunity to strike...he's becoming too much of a distraction for Roberts.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

If Hahn is left to do the job with out Kenny or Jerry not getting evolved in too much they would be fine

 

What is that theory actually based on?

 

Where do we get this idea that Rick Hahn is a capable talent evaluator?

[Y2Jimmy0]

It's not happening though. Reinsdorf is what 80? THey'll add this year and go for a WC or division. Add in the offseason and go for it again. You would think they could have a massive selloff by next year's deadline but they just won't. Their rotation is basically set for next year. Doing this just hasn't worked. It's pretty frustrating but it is what it is.

[Jose Abreu]

Basically, they're looking at spending another $10-15 million minimum, the rest of THIS year, to legitimately compete.

 

They're facing two teams in the Tigers and Royals with a lot more revenue or free-spending ownership or better prospects to trade or all three. The Royals and Tigers are both surely nearing the ends of their windows (2017 for both), so Glass and Ilitch are going to pull out all the stops to get to the playoffs this season and next.

 

And the Indians clearly have the best and deepest pitching staff in the division, and that's not going to change anytime soon. With Salazar, Kluber, Carrasco, Tomlin, Bauer and then Cody Anderson and Clevinger, they've got surplus pitching as well as 2-3 really nice hitting prospects (Top 100) that are fairly advanced already.

 

Finally, in the battle for Braun, Bruce, Chris Carter, Wil Myers, Odorizzi, Sonny Gray...we're not in a position to do anything besides taking on high salary/unwise contracts, so we'll simply end up taking on more questionable veteran contracts to follow up Shields.

 

 

 

 

It's why I said ---K IT!, add Puig and roll the dice. If they're going to go down with the ship, let it be with a young/er player with talent and who's fun to watch instead of another veteran "has been." I'm quite dubious about Ventura/Steverson getting anything productive out of him, but now there's never been a better opportunity to strike...he's becoming too much of a distraction for Roberts.

So nice you posted it... thrice?

 

[BigHurt3515]

I honestly think advanced scouting might be our worst area as a team/organization. It is amazing how many average to s***ty players just dominate this team consistently at the plate and on the mound. We can face guys with 4+ ERA's and get dominated, we can face a guy for the 3rd time in a month and get dominated every time. Our hitters have no approach towards certain pitchers and I think it all starts with scouting and how our hitters are preparing to face a pitcher.

[caulfield12]

The plan is to add veterans that they think are good and try to win. Willing to trade any prospect except two or three. Trouble is the ones they traded last couple years are likely better than any they didn't trade. The other problem is that the veterans they pick are always averageish or worse Then there is a pesky issue of near impossibility to win by loading up on veterans without a young core. Sox had a young core of exactly 4 players which doesn't cut it.

 

 

Thompson's at 863 and Semien at 732.

 

When you look at it logically, you could have had Semien at 3B or 2B, and you wouldn't have had to trade for Lawrie and Frazier with Tim Anderson also on the way.

 

You'd be getting much better production from CF and 2B, so the only issue would be 3rd. Uribe? Another solution would have been Desmond at 2B with Semien at 3rd, or Saladino at 3rd base again...although you're losing about 60-70 OPS points there with Saladino instead of Frazier.

 

The optimal solution would have been Semien 3B, Anderson/Desmond SS and then Saladino/Desmond 2B with Thompson in CF, Eaton in RF, Cabrera in LF...that would have still left you a DH short, so you could have gone Alvarez/Pearce/Raburn (pretty much any platoon bat would have worked, other than Shuck/Sands/Coats) along with Avi against LHP. At most, that would have cost you $15 million, which isn't that much considering we saved $13 million alone not having to pay LaRoche.

 

That would have given you a REAL and YOUNG core of Semien, Anderson, Saladino, Eaton, Thompson and Abreu...at least six players under age 30.

 

You would have had a ton of positional flexibility with Desmond, Saladino and Carlos Sanchez as well.

 

Now that would still have left Cabrera (leaving after 2017), DH and the catcher's spot up in the air, but you also would have had Phegley as part of the catching platoon and the possibility of bringing up Montas as a starter now instead of having to trade for James Shields.

 

 

 

So we have to hope that Zach Burdi as a future White Sox closer was/is worth it. At this point, they might as well groom Burdi for that position and deal David Robertson because another year of him closing at a premium salary will have been wasted.

Edited June 18, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

So nice you posted it... thrice?

 

 

Spotty VPN/Chinese Government/poor internet speeds due to the "Great Firewall"...blame one of the 3

[caulfield12]

So nice you posted it... thrice?

 

 

Spotty VPN/Chinese Government/poor internet speeds due to the "Great Firewall"... one of the 3 possibilities.

[caulfield12]

Great, it did it again.

 

Sigh.

[soxforlife05]

I honestly think advanced scouting might be our worst area as a team/organization. It is amazing how many average to s***ty players just dominate this team consistently at the plate and on the mound. We can face guys with 4+ ERA's and get dominated, we can face a guy for the 3rd time in a month and get dominated every time. Our hitters have no approach towards certain pitchers and I think it all starts with scouting and how our hitters are preparing to face a pitcher.

 

Or maybe it's that the players just don't care to look at the scouting report?

[Real]

Going to have a nice farm when they start selling off Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Robertson, melky

 

they'll have nice names on the farm, but they can't actually develop the talent. at least not the kind that requires a bat.

[Chicago White Sox]

Half Measures. It's what they do. Try to strike lightning in a bottle. I'm not one of these people that wants to sell everything but they should probably raise the payroll by $40 million or rebuild. Can't keep going halfway.

The only way they're going to strike lighting in a bottle is if they go out and add an impact hitter ASAP and then hope that when Morneau is ready he can be a capable DH. Say we add CarGo, here's how our lineup could look like:

 

1. Anderson, SS

2. Eaton, CF

3. Abreu, 1B

4. CarGo, RF

5. Frazier, 3B

6. Cabrera, LF

7. Lawrie, 2B

8. Morneau, DH

9. Avila, C

 

Austin Jackson could be our 4th OF and allow us to shift Eaton to RF against LHP. Might allow us to go with a Leury Garcia type over Shuck to add some speed/versatility to the bench.

 

And honestly, maybe it's time they have consider firing Steverson. Lawrie's K rate is 50% worse than his career average. Frazier is sporting a horrifically low BABIP but that corresponds with a significant decrease in his line drive rate. I haven't seen much in terms of changes for either player. These were our key two offensive additions this offseason and they are underperforming. Maybe it's worst seeing if a new voice creates a spark. I'm not one to think a hitting coach has a huge impact, but I do believe new perspectives occasionally help. Worth a shot in trying to save this season IMO.

[Hatchetman]

Steverson must have compromising photos of someone.

[SI1020]

I desperately want the Sox to rebuild from the ground up, but there's really no point to it as the Sox can't scout and develop young talent anyway.

 

This franchise is a wreck.

There really isn't anything else to say. You nailed it.

 

[GreatScott82]

The only way they're going to strike lighting in a bottle is if they go out and add an impact hitter ASAP and then hope that when Morneau is ready he can be a capable DH. Say we add CarGo, here's how our lineup could look like:

 

1. Anderson, SS

2. Eaton, CF

3. Abreu, 1B

4. CarGo, RF

5. Frazier, 3B

6. Cabrera, LF

7. Lawrie, 2B

8. Morneau, DH

9. Avila, C

 

Austin Jackson could be our 4th OF and allow us to shift Eaton to RF against LHP. Might allow us to go with a Leury Garcia type over Shuck to add some speed/versatility to the bench.

 

And honestly, maybe it's time they have consider firing Steverson. Lawrie's K rate is 50% worse than his career average. Frazier is sporting a horrifically low BABIP but that corresponds with a significant decrease in his line drive rate. I haven't seen much in terms of changes for either player. These were our key two offensive additions this offseason and they are underperforming. Maybe it's worst seeing if a new voice creates a spark. I'm not one to think a hitting coach has a huge impact, but I do believe new perspectives occasionally help. Worth a shot in trying to save this season IMO.

I wanted the Sox to get CarGo for the longest time, but looking at the farm system and the current state of the franchise-- they should probably be sellers and not buyers at the deadline.

[Texsox]

I desperately want the Sox to rebuild from the ground up, but there's really no point to it as the Sox can't scout and develop young talent anyway.

 

This franchise is a wreck.

 

Perhaps they are. Keep all the draft picks from this year and the next five drafts and hope enough develop to compete. Dump all the valuable players today and add even more 20 year olds. Then maybe, in 2022 they will be in position to win.

 

I read some but not all of the draft coverage at Futuresox and it seems as if the Sox did as well as anybody in the draft. Baseball drafts more players than a third world army and a few turn up in the show in five years. The draft just seems like the biggest gamble in terms of building a team. I've spent a lifetime of watching can't miss draft picks miss and miss. And not just in the Sox system.