Blow It Up

[GreatScott82]

I think Robertson and Melky are better than a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

 

Every draft we all get excited about 20 guys the team selects. If 2 of them actually pan out to contributing pieces, you are doing alright.

Melky and Robertson have been good signings, I give you that. However, overall do you think Hahn and KW did a good job with this ball club from 2012- to present day? My issue is the overall inconsistencies with their plan. Or lack there of.

[Dick Allen]

Melky and Robertson have been good signings, I give you that. However, overall do you think Hahn and KW did a good job with this ball club from 2012- to present day? My issue is the overall inconsistencies with their plan. Or lack there of.

Of course not. Although they have made moves that seemed logical that exploded in their faces. There is something about hitters when they come to the White Sox stinking the place up. Is it because of something here or a problem with the identifying? They really wanted Alex Gordon. Seemed logical. Yet he was stinking the place up before he got hurt. Biut the list is long. Abreu and Eaton are the only 2 I can recall that gave you career average offense from the start.

[caulfield12]

The Indians are paying Swisher and Bourne. The Royals have about $40 million tied up into players that are doing anything. When you come up with these percentages and silly conclusions, do you even think about what you are writing? There isn't a team around that isn't going to sign someone to a bad contract. If there was, they would be a team of guys making minimum and winning minimum apparently many on Soxtalk dream.

 

 

First of all, the Indians are "making do" just fine on a payroll that's ONLY around $90 million.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2...r_paul_d_6.html

Look, the owner (Dolan) learned a lesson and didn't repeat it. PLEASE FORWARD TO JR!!! And it's $32 million over 2 years, so an average of $16 million PER YEAR, not anywhere close to the White Sox's $30 million. And, look, the free agents they brought in this time were/are bargain deals, Rajai Davis, Napoli and Juan Uribe. None were long-term commitments, all have played important roles.

 

Seems pretty darned miraculous, compared to the KW and Hahn Regime. Could it have something to do with Salazar, Carrasco, Gomes, Carlos Santana, Francisco Lindor (one of the Top 3 young SS's in baseball), Jose Ramirez, Abraham Almonte, etc., all coming out of Latin America and GOOD INTL. SCOUTING?

 

 

As far the Royals go, they have released Infante, costing $15 million over the next two years (and buyout), Gordon's been hurt so that's different than just completely non-performing/failing and that move was also about sending a PR message to their fanbase they would do whatever it took to retain some of their (even aging) core to show their appreciation for sticking it out through the lean years (both for Gordon and the fans). Vargas is the on the DL still because of TJ, but they're receiving insurance compensation, and, once again, you're talking about an injury.

 

But, miracle of miracles, they've developed replacements despite trading away 7 of their best pitching prospects. They just sent down an OF hitting .317 (Fuentes) and are going to have to choose between an outfielder with a 1000+ OPS (Eibner) or 850ish OPS (Orlando) when Alex Gordon comes back next week from NW Arkansas. Basically, they have 5 rookies playing well beyond replacement level (700-1025 OPS)...and none of them were Top 10 BA prospects, other than Cuthbert at #10. We have....Jason Coats and Anderson.

 

 

If you really want to to go through the entire White Sox payroll, it would be pretty difficult to get Top 50-75 pieces back for Robertson and Cabrera (simply freeing up their contracts would be the biggest accomplishment), Duke...even Todd Frazier right now.

Edited June 19, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreatScott82]

Of course not. Although they have made moves that seemed logical that exploded in their faces. There is something about hitters when they come to the White Sox stinking the place up. Is it because of something here or a problem with the identifying? They really wanted Alex Gordon. Seemed logical. Yet he was stinking the place up before he got hurt. Biut the list is long. Abreu and Eaton are the only 2 I can recall that gave you career average offense from the start.

I think it's the identifying factor for getting hitters. It has been a very big problem. Hahn and KW seem desperate this year and we all know when you run a team in a desperate manner, bad things are likely to happen. It's definitely time for someone new to take over the reigns of this team. A new president, GM and manager. They went in it together-- they failed together. Now they should all leave together.

[caulfield12]

Melky and Robertson have been good signings, I give you that. However, overall do you think Hahn and KW did a good job with this ball club from 2012- to present day? My issue is the overall inconsistencies with their plan. Or lack there of.

 

 

You're pushing it with "good."

 

Cabrera was terrible last season. He has been a good hitter this year, but has shown recently his warts on defense. I wouldn't call him a bargain for the amount of money we're paying him, especially since he doesn't hit many homers, and that's something the White Sox are desperately in need of at the moment.

 

Robertson is "fairly paid" but hasn't been elite. He's been very good, and you can cite his peripherals, but I don't think anyone who has followed the White Sox the last 220+ games would say he's been great or elite. Since he is one of the Top 3 paid closers in baseball, that's what the expectation was. Has he solidified the back end of the bullpen? Yes, compared to 2013-14, anything would have been an improvement. Is he worth his salary when Nate Jones could have a 70-80% success rate closing at a fraction of the price for a 4th place team? Probably not.

[Dick Allen]

First of all, the Indians are "making do" just fine on a payroll that's ONLY around $90 million.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2...r_paul_d_6.html

Look, the owner (Dolan) learned a lesson and didn't repeat it. PLEASE FORWARD TO JR!!! And it's $32 million over 2 years, so an average of $16 million PER YEAR, not anywhere close to the White Sox's $30 million. And, look, the free agents they brought in this time were/are bargain deals, Rajai Davis, Napoli and Juan Uribe. None were long-term commitments, all have played important roles.

 

Seems pretty darned miraculous, compared to the KW and Hahn Regime. Could it have something to do with Salazar, Carrasco, Gomes, Carlos Santana, Francisco Lindor (one of the Top 3 young SS's in baseball), Jose Ramirez, Abraham Almonte, etc., all coming out of Latin America and GOOD INTL. SCOUTING?

 

 

As far the Royals go, they have released Infante, costing $15 million over the next two years (and buyout), Gordon's been hurt so that's different than just completely non-performing/failing and that move was also about sending a PR message to their fanbase they would do whatever it took to retain some of their (even aging) core to show their appreciation for sticking it out through the lean years (both for Gordon and the fans). Vargas is the on the DL still because of TJ, but they're receiving insurance compensation, and, once again, you're talking about an injury.

 

But, miracle of miracles, they've developed replacements despite trading away 7 of their best pitching prospects. They just sent down an OF hitting .317 (Fuentes) and are going to have to choose between an outfielder with a 1000+ OPS (Eibner) or 850ish OPS (Orlando) when Alex Gordon comes back next week from NW Arkansas. Basically, they have 5 rookies playing well beyond replacement level (700-1025 OPS)...and none of them were Top 10 BA prospects, other than Cuthbert at #10. We have....Jason Coats and Anderson.

 

 

If you really want to to go through the entire White Sox payroll, it would be pretty difficult to get Top 50-75 pieces back for Robertson and Cabrera (simply freeing up their contracts would be the biggest accomplishment), Duke...even Todd Frazier right now.

According to Cots, the Indians are paying $22 million this season to players who will never play for them.

[Buehrle>Wood]

However, if it's apart of a TRUE rebuilding plan, Heck we would embrace it. Why?

We being Sox fans? Yeah let's not get carried away. We wouldn't at all.

[caulfield12]

See enclosed article.

 

And it doesn't matter for three reasons, compared to the White Sox situation:

 

1) They should have at least another $5-10 million to squeeze in additional salary, especially with all the excitement in the city over the Cavs starting to spill over to baseball.

 

2) Much better farm system...they have multiple Top 100 prospects to trade.

 

3) They also have additional starting rotation pitching depth to trade from.

 

The White Sox, if they want a real impact player, are going to have to take on a huge contract...it's going to be a veteran instead of "in his prime" player again, and someone his team is willing to dump due to salary issues.

[Dick Allen]

Prospects break your heart. I get BP every year and keep it under my bed. Here are the top 20 prospects according to them in 2010:

Strasburg

Heyward

Naftali Perez

Jesus Montero

Stanton

Pedro Alvarez

Desmond Jennings

Carlos Santana

Buster Posey

Chris Carter

Dustin Ackley

Jeremy Hellickson

Ryan Westmoreland

Martin PereZ

Kyle Drabek

Justin Smoak

Brian Matusz

Escobar

Michael Taylor

Madison Bumgarner

 

 

That is baseballs top 20 6 years ago. Does that look like a roster that should contend year after year?

Edited June 19, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

See enclosed article.

 

And it doesn't matter for three reasons, compared to the White Sox situation:

 

1) They should have at least another $5-10 million to squeeze in additional salary, especially with all the excitement in the city over the Cavs starting to spill over to baseball.

 

2) Much better farm system...they have multiple Top 100 prospects to trade.

 

3) They also have additional starting rotation pitching depth to trade from.

 

The White Sox, if they want a real impact player, are going to have to take on a huge contract...it's going to be a veteran instead of "in his prime" player again, and someone his team is willing to dump due to salary issues.

Then why did they settle on Marlin Byrd?

[Chicago White Sox]

They have too many good pieces to blow it up.

Doesn't matter if Reinsdorf won't commit the resources to build around those players. We 100% half-assed it this offseason. They had a ton of holes and they dumpster dived to fill them despite multiple impact players being available at positions of need and it being a buyers' market. I can't even blame Hahn for this f***-up, because it's clear that ownership told the front office to try and win and didn't give them a budget to pull it off.

 

What I don't get is your need to defend all things ownership, front office, & coaching staff (except for Don Cooper). We are in the midst of a very long playoff drought despite "going for it" multiple times. Time and time again the team performs below expectations and yet you only want to hold the players accountable. It's incredibly frustrating that a poster as knowledgable as yourself refuses to see the truth. This organization completely sucks right now outside of a small core of players and the magic of Herm Schneider. How can you honestly feel we have too many good pieces to blow it up? How do you suggest we fix this mess?

[lord chas]

We need a total top to bottom enema. All these scholarship employees need to go too. Brooks Boyer, Gene Honda, Buddy Bell, and others all got to go

[Thad Bosley]

We need a total top to bottom enema. All these scholarship employees need to go too. Brooks Boyer, Gene Honda, Buddy Bell, and others all got to go

That kind of housecleaning only comes with new ownership. The current owner is clearly very comfortable with the current infrastructure, and that's not going to change. Period. That's pretty obvious at this point. We will just have to grin and bear it until that time comes when the current owner is no longer the current owner.

[Dick Allen]

Doesn't matter if Reinsdorf won't commit the resources to build around those players. We 100% half-assed it this offseason. They had a ton of holes and they dumpster dived to fill them despite multiple impact players being available at positions of need and it being a buyers' market. I can't even blame Hahn for this f***-up, because it's clear that ownership told the front office to try and win and didn't give them a budget to pull it off.

 

What I don't get is your need to defend all things ownership, front office, & coaching staff (except for Don Cooper). We are in the midst of a very long playoff drought despite "going for it" multiple times. Time and time again the team performs below expectations and yet you only want to hold the players accountable. It's incredibly frustrating that a poster as knowledgable as yourself refuses to see the truth. This organization completely sucks right now outside of a small core of players and the magic of Herm Schneider. How can you honestly feel we have too many good pieces to blow it up? How do you suggest we fix this mess?

I agree with the half assed, I said so last winter. I really thought they would get one of the big 3 OF. It turns out 2 of them we would be complaining about right now if they signed, and they really had little chance at the other. As for defending them, they have made moves I thought were pretty good. It's easy with hindsight to rip everything, but many of those doing the ripping either liked the idea at the time or have proposed far worse. I don't like calling myself a fool, so I am not going to call them fools for doing things I would have done. As for Cooper, just about every coach gets blame for something over the years except one. The guy walks on water despite pitchers that aren't tremendous, the White Sox as an organization developing more of them, and spending more money on them payroll wise than they do position players. If coaches are to be blamed, he should not be exempt,

There are a lot of players forming a core. Sale,Q, Rodon, Abreu, Eaton, Anderson,. Trading them all for prospects may seem like a great idea, but the reality is the odds are still against the team improving. As for payroll, I am not an heir to a White Sox investor so I couldn't care less what the payroll is.

[Texsox]

Prospects break your heart. I get BP every year and keep it under my bed. Here are the top 20 prospects according to them in 2010:

Strasburg

Heyward

Naftali Perez

Jesus Montero

Stanton

Pedro Alvarez

Desmond Jennings

Carlos Santana

Buster Posey

Chris Carter

Dustin Ackley

Jeremy Hellickson

Ryan Westmoreland

Martin PereZ

Kyle Drabek

Justin Smoak

Brian Matusz

Escobar

Michael Taylor

Madison Bumgarner

 

 

That is baseballs top 20 6 years ago. Does that look like a roster that should contend year after year?

 

Lately every time you post I've been saying amen brother. I hate the draft. It take twenty or thirty prospects to get one guy on your 25.

[Hatchetman]

where the hell are you going to get players if you don't draft and develop them? nobody can afford to buy FAs to fill an entire roster. nobody can win every trade to make chicken salad out of chicken s***, especially not the Sox. They are the ones who get fleeced on most of the trades.

[Texsox]

The problem becomes projecting three or four years down the road when your draft pick may be MLB ready. Will that be your need?

[Bob Sacamano]

Jerry is old. He should be saying f*** it and spending a ton in free agency. Should have signed Cespedes (my choice of the 3) to a similar deal Mets signed him to.

 

Current dream is Reddick gets traded to another team and we sign him without a QO attached to him in the off season.

Edited June 19, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Baron]

Blow it up. That's never went wrong ever!

[kitekrazy]

Blow it up. That's never went wrong ever!

 

As a resounding gong please tell me where there is any evidence that this organization has the ability to scout and develop. Let's start with the free agents this team signs and the pattern is the same every year. Just look at all of the call ups tells you how bad the farm system is in developing players. It seems even such things as fundamentals are not important.

Edited June 19, 2016 by kitekrazy

[hi8is]

You.re dreaming, man. Sound asleep.

Ok, Q for one of those two and supplement either of the omitted for a 1B or CF in the draft or in FA. You've also got other trade chips on Jones and Robertson who could help bring in a good fit for one of those two spots.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I wish but this'll never happen. I used to think Hahn could do it but I no longer have faith in him nor this entire organization. What a f***ing train wreck.

[GGajewski18]

What could we realistically get for Sale, Q, Robertson, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

What could we realistically get for Sale, Q, Robertson, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie?

A new farm system

[Butter Parque]

What could we realistically get for Sale, Q, Robertson, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie?

 

You honestly trust this management team to get ANYTHING for these guys?

In a perfect world, hahn, kw, and the scouts would be fired this offseason and the new management team could trade those guys