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Greg Hibbard

Our record vs. the three central teams above us

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I'm asking because I honestly don't know. We are 52-40 against everyone else, and 11-27 against the Tigs, Royals and Indians.

 

What is it, exactly? How do we handle good teams like Toronto, Texas and Boston just fine, but scuffle so much against our own division?

 

The disparity doesn't seem to really make any sense, whatsoever.

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 02:41 PM)
I don't know, but it's the defining characteristic of the Robin Ventura Era, fair or not.

 

It seems like it was also something that happened during Guillen's time here as well IIRC.

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QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 02:41 PM)
I don't know, but it's the defining characteristic of the Robin Ventura Era, fair or not.

 

Yep. For sure.

 

2016 Sox vs. Central (gotta include twins) - 20-30

2016 Sox vs. everyone else - 43-37

 

2015 Sox vs. Central - 32-44

2015 Sox vs. everyone else - 44-42

 

2014 Sox vs. Central - 33-43

2014 Sox vs. everyone else - 40-46

 

2013 Sox vs. Central - 26-50 (holy s***!)

2013 Sox vs. everyone else - 37-49

 

2012 Sox vs. Central - 37-35

2012 Sox vs. everyone else - 48-42

 

Robin Ventura vs. Central - 148-202

Robin Ventura vs. everyone else - 212-216

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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 12:56 PM)
Yep. For sure.

 

2016 Sox vs. Central (gotta include twins) - 20-30

2016 Sox vs. everyone else - 43-37

 

2015 Sox vs. Central - 32-44

2015 Sox vs. everyone else - 44-42

 

2014 Sox vs. Central - 33-43

2014 Sox vs. everyone else - 40-46

 

2013 Sox vs. Central - 26-50 (holy s***!)

2013 Sox vs. everyone else - 37-49

 

2012 Sox vs. Central - 37-35

2012 Sox vs. everyone else - 48-42

 

Robin Ventura vs. Central - 148-202

Robin Ventura vs. everyone else - 212-216

That is pretty staggering. Is it coincidence (bad matchups within division) or is it worse advanced scouting / analysis where we lose advantages against teams we play more vs. our inability to adjust (vs. adjustments other teams make)?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 02:46 PM)
It seems like it was also something that happened during Guillen's time here as well IIRC.

 

It started in 2009. Every year before then they were above .500 in the division (even in 2007).

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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 01:00 PM)
How many managers have lasted 5 full seasons with a winning percentage as bad as Robin's in the last 30 years?

Norv Turner? That said, talent level was pretty bad more often then not. It is all a moot point because Robin is clearly gone (barring an absurd September run) and there is zero chance Robin was the difference between making the postseason and not in any of the seasons he was here (so while I agree Robin is an issue and it is time to go, if you want to focus too much attention their, you actually pass the buck on what really matters, and that is the poor rosters, etc). Understand that it can't all happen overnight, but the team has clearly had some missteps in recent years and what has been a relatively unsuccessful strategy. It will be interesting to see what happens this off-season (especially since they have been more vocal then past years leading up to the off-season regarding everyone being able to see a clear direction based upon the moves we make).

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I wouldn't say the blame lies with Robin, but he's clearly been a non-factor in making a positive difference in any season. If we had been able to somehow sustain the hot early start, he could have proven himself. Instead, he's been a bystander. The record against the division....I dunno. Something is just WRONG there.

 

Also, every press conference I've seen after a loss seems to be him shrugging his shoulders "what CAN you do" and saying things like "we NEED to be better". Great, and THEN what?

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 03:09 PM)
I really hope Robin isn't the manager next year. Anyone else, please.

 

Anyone else that hasn't played on the Sox.

 

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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 03:38 PM)
Anyone else that hasn't played on the Sox.

 

If they hire Dave Martinez or Sandy Alomar, I won't complain.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 03:44 PM)
If they hire Dave Martinez or Sandy Alomar, I won't complain.

 

I will. No other team seem to be interested in them. At least Renteria has experience dealing with teams that suck.

 

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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 30, 2016 -> 01:56 PM)
Yep. For sure.

 

2016 Sox vs. Central (gotta include twins) - 20-30

2016 Sox vs. everyone else - 43-37

 

2015 Sox vs. Central - 32-44

2015 Sox vs. everyone else - 44-42

 

2014 Sox vs. Central - 33-43

2014 Sox vs. everyone else - 40-46

 

2013 Sox vs. Central - 26-50 (holy s***!)

2013 Sox vs. everyone else - 37-49

 

2012 Sox vs. Central - 37-35

2012 Sox vs. everyone else - 48-42

 

Robin Ventura vs. Central - 148-202

Robin Ventura vs. everyone else - 212-216

 

The record against CLE in 2013 was something like 2-17, wasn't it? Or 1-18? Whatever it was, beyond abysmal.

 

This really dates back to 2001 when we had that long stretch of getting outplayed by the Twins except for 2005 and 2008...then the Tigers again from 2011-2014 and the Royals have obviously owned us or been a thorn in the side for the last decade as well.

 

Earlier in the year, I broke this down individually team vs. team. We were well behind the Tigers and Royals, closer against the Twins and Indians in the last ten years or so because of how far off the Twins have fallen.

 

 

Again this year with the Tigers and Royals, playing 27 or whatever AL Central opponents down the stretch, it seems one of those two is bound to sneak into the WC (or the Astros) with how tough the AL East currently is outside of TB. KC has those divisional games and four with the A's and more home than road games remaining. They were 51-58 and behind the White Sox three weeks ago. Fwiw, Fathom was one of the few who called the Tigers a serious threat before this season as well.

 

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I think the reasons are a talent gap, a manager gap and a scouting / adjustment gap. The other teams in the Central simply have more / better talent in those areas and have for the last four years at least.

 

Mark

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It's scouting and it's execution and it's not caring about beating one's divisional foes.

The White Sox opponents know where we are gonna hit the ball and are positioned perfectly. Their pitchers know how to strike out our hitters. I'd love to see strikeout totals vs. the Central the last four years.

Also our team does not play "hard." The Royals always get up for our games and seem to enjoy kicking our ass. Remember before this year when they kept throwing at our hitters?

The Sox just stroll out there the same way against all opponents. That lazy attitude doesn't cut it and we lose. Our talented players usually perform way better against good teams outside the division.

We need to dump Robin, and improve our scouting.

 

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