Wanne Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: And if the White Sox call up Eloy and he struggles, some of the same people who are dying to see him will be crying about the Sox always rushing guys. There is no need. He'll adjust and be fine...he's not the delicate little flower you think he is from all indications. This franchise needs an infusion of hope at some point this year. There's no reason NOT to call him up in July... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Tony said: So that's the justification for not calling him up? Because of some meatheads? Gordon Beckham, duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Beckham was actually pretty good when he first came up. Walker messed with his stance and got into his head that he wasn't doing things correctly and Beckham got a complex about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: And if the White Sox call up Eloy and he struggles, some of the same people who are dying to see him will be crying about the Sox always rushing guys. There is no need. All this rebuild is proving is that many Sox fans actually werent ready to really buy into a full rebuild. Its been less than 2 seasons and people already want prospects called up for instant gratification. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 The justification to not call up Eloy is to get 1 more year of control when the Sox are good as compared to losing 1 year of control when the Sox are bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, knightni said: It certainly reduced his willingness to re-up with the Cubs after his arbitration years end. If Eloy Jimenez is the player we all hope he is, there is zero chance he re-signs with the Sox when his arbitration years end anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tony said: Greg Walker is not the reason Gordon Beckham is a career .239 hitter in 3200 ABs. https://www.southsidesox.com/2011/9/13/2422125/its-greg-walker-time-for-the-last-time KW certainly thought so, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Greg Walker is not the reason Gordon Beckham is a career .239 hitter in 3200 ABs. once the book got out on Beckham and he started tinkering it was all over for him as an effective MLB hitter. Total guess hitter that had a long swing for a middle infielder and that could not turn around even mediocre fastballs middle in. It's actually pretty amazing looking at his pitch values on fangraphs for his career. His rookie year he was +5 runs on 4 seamers and the rest of his career he is -38! Once pitches learned he couldn't hit fastballs it was all over. I'm guessing his rookie year they didn't have much respect for him and just tried to grab strikes early and often and he knew it. When they changed up that pattern he was toast. Anyways, back to Eloy fucking Jimenez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Also, here is some info regarding the change. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/gordon-beckham-is-broken/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Tony said: And Williams stellar record on finding and drafting hitters gives him a ton of authority on the subject. lol...this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, knightni said: Also, here is some info regarding the change. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/gordon-beckham-is-broken/ That article just proves that Walker had little if anything do to with his decline and backs up my theory that once pitchers knew that Beckham was up there guessing, they started pitching him backwards and then finishing him off with fastballs. If Walker introduced mechanical changes that Beckham struggled with then that's on Walker but it's also on Beckham. The preponderance of evidence after Beckham left Chicago suggests he's just a lousy hitter. It's not like he had any success after Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: All this rebuild is proving is that many Sox fans actually werent ready to really buy into a full rebuild. Its been less than 2 seasons and people already want prospects called up for instant gratification. This is the best post in the entire thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: All this rebuild is proving is that many Sox fans actually werent ready to really buy into a full rebuild. Its been less than 2 seasons and people already want prospects called up for instant gratification. We're annoyed. Obviously player development isn't linear. More of the complaints are about wasting service time for anyone on the big club who could be part of the next contender when most of the players involved in that team are nowhere close to ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Soxbadger said: Kris Bryant had some pretty good minor league stats (.325/.438 /.661/1.098) and the Cubs kept him down until the following year to gain 1 extra year of control. That seemed to really hurt his development as a player. I haven't seen anyone indicate keeping Eloy down would hurt his development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: .326/.378/.526 Those were Gordon Beckham's splits in AA and AAA in 196 PA in 2009 as an older player than Eloy. People still complain he was rushed. There is no reason to rush Eloy. Eloy Jimenez Age 20 between A+ and AA .312 .379 .568 .947 369 PA Eloy Jimenez extracted from above in AA Birmingham .353 .397 .559 .956 Eloy Jimenez Age 20 in the Dominican Winter League who some say is like AA+ .368 .443 .676 1.120 79 PA This year Eloy Jimenez Age 21 in AA Birmingham .346 .375 .704 1.079 88 PA Just sayin' he's right, AA isn't a challenge for him. He needs/wants to be challenged. Time for AAA. And if he falters there( which he won't) then those wanting to wait til 2019 might have some ammo. Just remember Charlotte is a hitters park, Birmingham isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) His wRC+, thanks to his home park, is approaching 200. Think about that. He's nearly twice as good as the average AA hitter. There is entirely a chance that his development would be hurt staying in AA. The quicker he starts seeing better competition the quicker he will learn (or perhaps not learn) what adjustments he needs to make against better competition. Edited May 10, 2018 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This is the best post in the entire thread. Oh please it's garbage. No one is saying bring him up besides WBwhatever We're saying get him up to the next level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 41 minutes ago, Tony said: And Williams stellar record on finding and drafting hitters gives him a ton of authority on the subject. He should blame the GM who hired Greg Walker too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Oh please it's garbage. No one is saying bring him up besides WBwhatever We're saying get him up to the next level. Yeah...he's taking people's posts out of context to suit his argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Oh please it's garbage. No one is saying bring him up besides WBwhatever We're saying get him up to the next level. I would agree. His play will let them know what to do. At this pace he should go to AAA within a few weeks at most. Then his play there will determine if he goes to the show prior to September. He needs to get some MLB seasoning prior to the Sox projected window of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: He should blame the GM who hired Greg Walker too. It's usually the manger who hires the coaches, but here it's always KW whether he's the GM, VP or director of player development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sarava said: Yeah...he's taking people's posts out of context to suit his argument. What post did I take out of context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 47 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: If Eloy Jimenez is the player we all hope he is, there is zero chance he re-signs with the Sox when his arbitration years end anyway. If the Sox aren't going to resign their core, what was the point of this exercise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Dam8610 said: If the Sox aren't going to resign their core, what was the point of this exercise? To win a World Series during the 6 year period you have the core in their prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: All this rebuild is proving is that many Sox fans actually werent ready to really buy into a full rebuild. Its been less than 2 seasons and people already want prospects called up for instant gratification. This....who exactly wants them called up for instant gratification? Other than Greg maybe, who hasn't been part of this thread today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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