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Just now, ptatc said:

Yes. All trade proposals should be centered around players who can help them not  AAAA fodder.

I even mean they have a chance to play in our system.  For example, trading for an OF at AA or below would be a waste, as they don't have enough spots to play the guys they have now, let alone another prospect.  They need to target much more specific guys based on position and level. (for example LHPs or 3Bs)

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Can always use pitching.

And some of these deep teams have AAA excess that could help the Sox...that's basically what the Pirates got from Houston for Cole (not that the sox have a Cole to trade).

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On 7/17/2018 at 5:20 PM, ptatc said:

Yes. All trade proposals should be centered around players who can help them not  AAAA fodder.

Agreed

First of all AAAA guys don't help us in anyway. We are on pace to lose close to 100 games and are looking at least two more years of rebuilding before all our top guys are in the ML.

Secondly contending teams are not going to trade pieces off their roster right now anyways. They want to trade prospects. The offseason is when you target non-tender and out of option guys.

 

Edited by wrathofhahn

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On 7/17/2018 at 5:22 PM, southsider2k5 said:

I even mean they have a chance to play in our system.  For example, trading for an OF at AA or below would be a waste, as they don't have enough spots to play the guys they have now, let alone another prospect.  They need to target much more specific guys based on position and level. (for example LHPs or 3Bs)

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This is just sort of a terrible way to run a team. First of all young guys Tatis being the obvious example are appreciating assets. Sure a bunch of them end up being busts but take a look at the Yankees if you want to see sort of what good scouting can do with these trades. You only have to hit with one or two of your trades out of ten to make the process a complete homerun.

They basically turned Brian McCann into Stanton plus got to keep a prospect from the trade. We aren't in a position to compete right now even if the prospects end up blocked if they turn out we can move them for positions of need. We can find AAAA guys on waiver wire or non-tender market or make a trade for someone out of options. Hell we can just take on salary like we did with Soria to fill in positions with vet guys if we really want.

Why worry about the quality of the placeholders? The reality is this team is probably going to suck tremendously for the next two years until the kids are ready. The idea should be when we are ready to compete have as much young talent as possible not trade assets to collect a bunch of AAAA placeholders. Who cares if they are better then what they have? So we win 63 games instead of 60. Big whoop. If they aren't going to be a key part of our future contending team then they have no use to me.

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1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

This is just sort of a terrible way to run a team. First of all young guys Tatis being the obvious example are appreciating assets. Sure a bunch of them end up being busts but take a look at the Yankees if you want to see sort of what good scouting can do with these trades. You only have to hit with one or two of your trades out of ten to make the process a complete homerun.

They basically turned Brian McCann into Stanton plus got to keep a prospect from the trade. We aren't in a position to compete right now even if the prospects end up blocked if they turn out we can move them for positions of need. We can find AAAA guys on waiver wire or non-tender market or make a trade for someone out of options. Hell we can just take on salary like we did with Soria to fill in positions with vet guys if we really want.

Why worry about the quality of the placeholders? The reality is this team is probably going to suck tremendously for the next two years until the kids are ready. The idea should be when we are ready to compete have as much young talent as possible not trade assets to collect a bunch of AAAA placeholders. Who cares if they are better then what they have? So we win 63 games instead of 60. Big whoop. If they aren't going to be a key part of our future contending team then they have no use to me.

lol, nice job. Literally nothing of this post had anything to do with the major league level.  This was an epic miss of a rant.  This was all about targeting guys for our MINOR league system, but doing it intelligently so they would still have spots to play in.

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Alright, I’m throwing some crazy ideas out there.  By no means do I think any of these will happen though.

  • Yolmer Sanchez & Xavier Cedeno to Red Sox for Jay Groome & Josh Ockimey
  • Jose Abreu to Yankees for Albert Abreu & Luis Medina
  • Joakim Soria & Luis Avalin to the Braves for William Contreras & Kyler Muller
  • James Shields to the Mariners for Julio Rodriguez
  • Nate Jones to Rockies for Colten Welker

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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright, I’m throwing some crazy ideas out there.  By no means do I think any of these will happen though.

  • Yolmer Sanchez & Xavier Cedeno to Red Sox for Jay Groome & Josh Ockimey
  • Jose Abreu to Yankees for Albert Abreu & Luis Medina
  • Joakim Soria & Luis Avalin to the Braves for William Contreras & Kyler Muller
  • James Shields to the Mariners for Julio Rodriguez
  • Nate Jones to Rockies for Colten Welker

Jose would have to be in the deal to Colorado for Welker. 

Edited by DH in the NL

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9 minutes ago, DH in the NL said:

Jose would have to be in the deal to Colorado for Welker. 

Has Welker’s stock jumped up that much this year?  I know he’s hitting well, but he still has questions of whether he will stick at 3B.  Jones is a tough one, because while he’s coming off an injury and hasn’t been great frankly, he also has premium stuff & is controllable / dirt cheap.

Edited by Chicago White Sox

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6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Has Welker’s stock jumped up that much this year?  I know he’s hitting well, but he still has questions of whether he will stick at 3B.  Jones is a tough one, because while he’s coming off an injury and hasn’t been great frankly, he also has premium & is controllable / dirt cheap.

He’s currently hitting .315 with 9 hr and 54 rbi. His stock has definitely not taken a hit offensively. Not sure about the defense. 

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My new and improved thoughts over the next 11 days on the deadline.

James Shields to the A's for RHP Xavier Altamirano

Jose Abreu to the Astros for 1B Yordan Alvarez, RHP Jairo Solis, and SS Jonathan Arauz

Joakim Soria and Luis Avilan to the Braves for LHP Kyle Muller and LHP Joey Wentz

Xavier Cedeno to the Red Sox for RHP Roniel Raudes

Thoughts?

 

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7 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

My new and improved thoughts over the next 11 days on the deadline.

James Shields to the A's for RHP Xavier Altamirano

Jose Abreu to the Astros for 1B Yordan Alvarez, RHP Jairo Solis, and SS Jonathan Arauz

Joakim Soria and Luis Avilan to the Braves for LHP Kyle Muller and LHP Joey Wentz

Xavier Cedeno to the Red Sox for RHP Roniel Raudes

Thoughts?

 

Jose Abreu is a substantial downgrade at both 1b and DH for the Astros and apparently I'm going to keep pointing that out every time someone suggests it. 

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jose Abreu is a substantial downgrade at both 1b and DH for the Astros and apparently I'm going to keep pointing that out every time someone suggests it. 

While this may be true in this particular case, the problem is you continue use a recent pro-longed slump to project future performance.  Brian Cashman isn’t going to pass on an obvious upgrade in Jose over an ordinary / injury riddled Greg Bird (luxury tax considerations aide) if he believes the past month & half have simply been a rough stretch for him.  He only cares about future performance.  I know you truly believe he’s suddenly aged 5 years and can no longer hit a fastball, but I’d wager most front offices look at him as a great buy low candidate.  That doesn’t mean other front offices won’t discount his value because of his slump (they will), but it also doesn’t mean he’s now comparable to Greg Bird and a bunch of mediocre players.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

While this may be true in this particular case, the problem is you continue use a recent pro-longed slump to project future performance.  Brian Cashman isn’t going to pass on an obvious upgrade in Jose over an ordinary / injury riddled Greg Bird (luxury tax considerations aide) if he believes the past month & half have simply been a rough stretch for him.  He only cares about future performance.  I know you truly believe he’s suddenly aged 5 years and can no longer hit a fastball, but I’d wager most front offices look at him as a great buy low candidate.  That doesn’t mean other front offices won’t discount his value because of his slump (they will), but it also doesn’t mean he’s now comparable to Greg Bird and a bunch of mediocre players.

Yuli Gurriel should have been the AL's all star at 1b and Evan Gattis is leading the Astros in HR and RBI. They are not mediocre players.

And if they're caring about future performance, there's a nonreasonable chance that his future performance over the next 1-2 months is comparable to the previous month and a half, which means no one, including Cashman, is giving up anything of value for him right now. If they want him, they can claim him on the waiver wire in August.

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28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jose Abreu is a substantial downgrade at both 1b and DH for the Astros and apparently I'm going to keep pointing that out every time someone suggests it. 

Rumors are they would move Gurriel to left.

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3 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Rumors are they would move Gurriel to left.

Not only would that be a terrible move for Gurriel, but they can play Kyle Tucker there and get experience for one of their rookies. 

Houston is going to acquire bullpen help. It's not even a rumor, they've said it repeatedly. I've never seen any rumor that they're going to move Gurriel away from 1b, there's no talk of it whatsoever close to Houston. They're not giving you anything for a 1b right now, let alone one who has been terrible for the last month and a half. 

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yuli Gurriel should have been the AL's all star at 1b and Evan Gattis is leading the Astros in HR and RBI. They are not mediocre players.

And if they're caring about future performance, there's a nonreasonable chance that his future performance over the next 1-2 months is comparable to the previous month and a half, which means no one, including Cashman, is giving up anything of value for him right now. If they want him, they can claim him on the waiver wire in August.

Evan Gattis’ last 15 games: .186 AVG .234 OBP .424 SLG 17 K’s.

Funny how you mention Abreu’s slump in the last month in a half, but only look at Gattis’ HR and RBI’s for your reasoning. Guess Gattis can do no wrong. 

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1 minute ago, DH in the NL said:

Evan Gattis’ last 15 games: .186 AVG .234 OBP .424 SLG 17 K’s.

Funny how you mention Abreu’s slump in the last month in a half, but only look at Gattis’ HR and RBI’s for your reasoning. Guess Gattis can do no wrong. 

And over his last 44 games, .245 average, .863 OPS. Over that same stretch, Abreu's OPS is about .520. 

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not only would that be a terrible move for Gurriel, but they can play Kyle Tucker there and get experience for one of their rookies. 

Houston is going to acquire bullpen help. It's not even a rumor, they've said it repeatedly. I've never seen any rumor that they're going to move Gurriel away from 1b, there's no talk of it whatsoever close to Houston. They're not giving you anything for a 1b right now, let alone one who has been terrible for the last month and a half. 

I don't know dude.  Go ask upper management in Houston what they are thinking, but those are the rumors and they have always loved Abreu.

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2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright, I’m throwing some crazy ideas out there.  By no means do I think any of these will happen though.

  • Yolmer Sanchez & Xavier Cedeno to Red Sox for Jay Groome & Josh Ockimey
  • Jose Abreu to Yankees for Albert Abreu & Luis Medina
  • Joakim Soria & Luis Avalin to the Braves for William Contreras & Kyler Muller
  • James Shields to the Mariners for Julio Rodriguez
  • Nate Jones to Rockies for Colten Welker

Yea gotta be Baltaesque here and keep repeating that there's no chance Abreu goes to the Yankees.Bird just had an outstanding week and they will wait to close to the deadline to see if he's found his stroke after being injured much of the season. With Moustaskas on the block also the Yanks would probably rather have him play 1st base than Abreu because he's also left handed and most likely much better defensively than Abreu. Without his hit tool ABreu is pretty worthless as a trade chip.

 

I hope he breaks out of the slump in a big way not just to be a more valuable trade chip but because Abreu is a class human being and the face of the White Sox .

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11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yea gotta be Baltaesque here and keep repeating that there's no chance Abreu goes to the Yankees.Bird just had an outstanding week and they will wait to close to the deadline to see if he's found his stroke after being injured much of the season. With Moustaskas on the block also the Yanks would probably rather have him play 1st base than Abreu because he's also left handed and most likely much better defensively than Abreu. Without his hit tool ABreu is pretty worthless as a trade chip.

 

I hope he breaks out of the slump in a big way not just to be a more valuable trade chip but because Abreu is a class human being and the face of the White Sox .

I don’t think we move Jose, simply because I don’t believe the offers will be good enough.  The proposed deal above is just what it would take for me to even consider moving him.

Regarding the Yankees, I really don’t think Bird prevents them from adding a 1B.  I actually think the luxury tax would be the big issue preventing an Abreu addition.

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On 7/13/2018 at 12:41 AM, Joshua Strong said:

The Yankees entice me as a trade partner. They’re always looking to upgrade their bullpen and with Tommy Kahnle and Chasen Shreve pitching poorly all year, I don’t expect that to change. They also need someone to eat innings as Sonny Gray has been awful this year  

Some guys in their farm system that I like for the Sox and who I think are realistic gets are RHP Matt Sauer (NYY #10 (MLBP)/#15 (Fangraphs - 40 FV) Prospect) and RHP Cody Carroll (NYY #15 (MLBP)/#18 (Fangraphs - 40FV) Prospect). 

Sauer has some upside, he throws mid nineties and projects to be a middle of the rotation guy. He does have a funky head delivery and could be a reliever  

Carroll is a reliever who can probably pitch in the bigs now. MLB Pipeline has his fastball at 75 and Fangraphs has it at 65/70. He has had TJS before. And he sports a career 10.2 K/9. 

Some other guys that I like are Freicer Perez and Domingo Acevedo. 

I got to see a lot of both Perez and Acevedo when I worked for Staten Island. Acevedo as long been a favorite of mine -- three pitches, upper-90's gas, and while he has always been said to have some control problems, they never really led to too many walks until recently. Never really struggled at all, really, until he got to AAA last year, and that was only a 12 inning sample. He's been pegged as a reliever since day one, but I don't know why.

Edited by Eminor3rd

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5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

lol, nice job. Literally nothing of this post had anything to do with the major league level.  This was an epic miss of a rant.  This was all about targeting guys for our MINOR league system, but doing it intelligently so they would still have spots to play in.

I don't agree with that either because when it comes to trades as we all know there are limited buyers for guys and the prospects pools of these farms are limited as well. I wouldn't want to trade for a guy whose a lesser prospect just to fill a need. If the prospects hits they'll be a market for him anyways like I said in the other thread we don't need to really worry about positions at this point what is most important is talent. Also playing in the AL always leaves an extra roster spot to work with (DH).

Besides when they are in the minor leagues you can move them around most guys don't even end up in the same position they were drafted at. The only concern I would have if we had too many 1B/DH/LF types at the top of the system. Well right now we really only have one in Eloy. I guess Burger qualifies as well but you can't really forecast him right now.

I would like to bring in some more athletic guys you could move around the infield but not at the cost of taking a much lesser prospect because Sanchez is sort of an example of why that doesn't work. If these middle infielders aren't great prospects then they won't produce enough to be moved to 3B or another position where you expect offense.

Edited by wrathofhahn

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