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Abreu “as valuable as anything” to Sox: Merkin

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32 minutes ago, fathom said:

“Solid 3 hole hitter”....he’s so going to bat 3rd when he’s 40 and still on the Sox

Exactly why I don't want him resigned. Nothing to do with him per se, but due to Ricky's incompetence. 

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"It seems to be another elite, middle-of-the-order performance the White Sox have come to expect from a healthy Abreu. But the first baseman’s on-base percentage is at a career-low .313 and the funks he’s had in ’19 have been a bit more extended than years past.

Those results aren’t necessarily related to those who are hitting or aren’t hitting around him in the White Sox lineup. It’s more about a player often identified by other teams as the White Sox player that can’t be allowed to beat them."

 

“If he was a guy that I would say walks 75 to 100 times per year, it would be better for him obviously. But he’s never been that guy coming out of Cuba. He’s more of a swinger. We talk about it all the time. That’s probably the biggest difference [this season]. They aren’t pitching to him as much this year and he’s not taking his walks, which he’s never been a high walk guy.”

 

They highlight his weakness in the article at least. I don't see him improving in that aspect as he ages. A 3 hole hitter with a .300 OBP is not what I want. 

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

"It seems to be another elite, middle-of-the-order performance the White Sox have come to expect from a healthy Abreu. But the first baseman’s on-base percentage is at a career-low .313 and the funks he’s had in ’19 have been a bit more extended than years past.

Those results aren’t necessarily related to those who are hitting or aren’t hitting around him in the White Sox lineup. It’s more about a player often identified by other teams as the White Sox player that can’t be allowed to beat them."

 

“If he was a guy that I would say walks 75 to 100 times per year, it would be better for him obviously. But he’s never been that guy coming out of Cuba. He’s more of a swinger. We talk about it all the time. That’s probably the biggest difference [this season]. They aren’t pitching to him as much this year and he’s not taking his walks, which he’s never been a high walk guy.”

 

They highlight his weakness in the article at least. I don't see him improving in that aspect as he ages. A 3 hole hitter with a .300 OBP is not what I want. 

Maybe not in the 3, but a .800 OPS hitter is pretty valuable. 

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4 minutes ago, greg775 said:

See my opinions aren't that radical. Some people agree with greg about Jose my idol (baseball idol).

Your opinion that 90+ loss seasons are fine continues to baffle me.

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1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Maybe not in the 3, but a .800 OPS hitter is pretty valuable. 

Baseball wide, the average OPS for 1st basemen this season is .797 (including backups). I guess for a 1b who is a good baserunner and a solid defender that average OPS is ok. 

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Your opinion that 90+ loss seasons are fine continues to baffle me.

I'll never believe we had to tank to get excellent again.

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Just now, greg775 said:

I'll never believe we had to tank to get excellent again.

You've made it 100% clear you are ok with how 2015 and 2016 went because Abreu was there. 

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

You've made it 100% clear you are ok with how 2015 and 2016 went because Abreu was there. 

I'm a White Sox fan through and through. Look (favorite word of presidential candidates) I want to win then. I want to win now. I demand the GM do his job and get a small market (yeah right) team like the Sox atop a crap division. I WANT TO WIN PERIOD. That's all there is.

As far as Abreu ... I also as a fan have my favorites. Of course I want him on my team. He's proven himself to this fan..

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47 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm a White Sox fan through and through. Look (favorite word of presidential candidates) I want to win then. I want to win now. I demand the GM do his job and get a small market (yeah right) team like the Sox atop a crap division. I WANT TO WIN PERIOD. That's all there is.

As far as Abreu ... I also as a fan have my favorites. Of course I want him on my team. He's proven himself to this fan..

The Indians and Twins are both on pace for 94-96 wins this season.

Granted, they got to beat up on three bad teams.

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16 hours ago, ron883 said:

"It seems to be another elite, middle-of-the-order performance the White Sox have come to expect from a healthy Abreu. But the first baseman’s on-base percentage is at a career-low .313 and the funks he’s had in ’19 have been a bit more extended than years past.

Those results aren’t necessarily related to those who are hitting or aren’t hitting around him in the White Sox lineup. It’s more about a player often identified by other teams as the White Sox player that can’t be allowed to beat them."

 

“If he was a guy that I would say walks 75 to 100 times per year, it would be better for him obviously. But he’s never been that guy coming out of Cuba. He’s more of a swinger. We talk about it all the time. That’s probably the biggest difference [this season]. They aren’t pitching to him as much this year and he’s not taking his walks, which he’s never been a high walk guy.”

 

They highlight his weakness in the article at least. I don't see him improving in that aspect as he ages. A 3 hole hitter with a .300 OBP is not what I want. 

The highlight indicates exactly all you need to know about Steverson---Abreu doesn't listen to him.  And apparently neither do several other players  based on comments by Renteria after several losses that Steverson's game plans were not being executed by the players.

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39 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

The highlight indicates exactly all you need to know about Steverson---Abreu doesn't listen to him.  And apparently neither do several other players  based on comments by Renteria after several losses that Steverson's game plans were not being executed by the players.

I guess I need to be educated by the stat lovers. As a good Little League and Babe Ruth League (or American Legion I forget what they called our league at Mt. Greenwood) player (didn't make team at Bro Rice; too many boys back then tried out) I always did think a walk was as good as a hit. But I thought in this day and age a single (or a walk) were to be discarded as invaluable. So why the deep concern over on base percentage? Just wondering. I feel like that article vindicated my position. The author called Jose "elite."

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7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I guess I need to be educated by the stat lovers. As a good Little League and Babe Ruth League (or American Legion I forget what they called our league at Mt. Greenwood) player (didn't make team at Bro Rice; too many boys back then tried out) I always did think a walk was as good as a hit. But I thought in this day and age a single (or a walk) were to be discarded as invaluable. So why the deep concern over on base percentage? Just wondering. I feel like that article vindicated my position. The author called Jose "elite."

Not sure what you have been reading tbh

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6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I guess I need to be educated by the stat lovers. As a good Little League and Babe Ruth League (or American Legion I forget what they called our league at Mt. Greenwood) player (didn't make team at Bro Rice; too many boys back then tried out) I always did think a walk was as good as a hit. But I thought in this day and age a single (or a walk) were to be discarded as invaluable. So why the deep concern over on base percentage? Just wondering. I feel like that article vindicated my position. The author called Jose "elite."

Except the author works for the White Sox and would lose his job quickly if he even suggested the White Sox should think about moving him to DH to make way for a better/younger LH hitting defender at 1B.

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7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I guess I need to be educated by the stat lovers. As a good Little League and Babe Ruth League (or American Legion I forget what they called our league at Mt. Greenwood) player (didn't make team at Bro Rice; too many boys back then tried out) I always did think a walk was as good as a hit. But I thought in this day and age a single (or a walk) were to be discarded as invaluable. So why the deep concern over on base percentage? Just wondering. I feel like that article vindicated my position. The author called Jose "elite."

 

Discounting OBP is just silly......OPS is my favorite measure and its nothing new age or anything like that so its easy for "non stat lovers like yourself." Right now among 1st baseman with 200 or more plate appearances, Jose is 20th in OPS. That's hard to discount.

 

The issue right now is who do you replace him with? They apparently are not high on Collins or so it seems. The market for 1B/DH seems thin. 

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7 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Not sure what you have been reading tbh

That it's home run or strikeout, nothing else really needed.

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Just now, greg775 said:

That it's home run or strikeout, nothing else really needed.

you've never read this.

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3 minutes ago, scs787 said:

 

Discounting OBP is just silly......OPS is my favorite measure and its nothing new age or anything like that so its easy for "non stat lovers like yourself." Right now among 1st baseman with 200 or more plate appearances, Jose is 20th in OPS. That's hard to discount.

 

The issue right now is who do you replace him with? They apparently are not high on Collins or so it seems. The market for 1B/DH seems thin. 

The ideal player would be Brandon Belt, but the Giants are not just going to give him away.

The likes of Smoak, Moreland or Adams don’t move the meter much.

They’re going to have to find someone blocked in another organization...like Aguilar was in CLE.  He was good for one over-performing season in MIL at least.  

They simply need to hold the fort down one year while waiting on Vaughn.

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9 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

The same Brandon Belt that is hitting .229/.345/.381 and is owed another 35 mil?

Yeah,no...

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10264&position=1B

The 2015-2018 version...at his late 20’s peak with two consecutive 3.9 fWAR seasons at 1B.   LH bat, great defense, leadership qualities, etc.

That’s the problem, age is catching up to players faster now, just like we are seeing with Abreu.  

Belt is 31 now and trending downward obviously, which is how we get stuck with Abreu again and only Greg and Ron are satisfied (for opposing reasons.) 

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Yeah, Belt seems to be a horrible suggestion. I'd rather keep Jose for 2 years. Belt even the year before had an OPS just a touch over .750. Hoping he might be more than that, when you're hoping to compete seems like a bad idea. 

 

If you completely give up on Jose, you're gonna have 1B and DH to fill, assuming Collins isnt an answer.....Finding 2 guys that will give you more than jose might prove difficult to find.

 

Has Grandal ever played 1B? Would he take a DH role? I know he has really struggled in the 2nd half, but I'd really like to see McCann given another year to handle the young staff.

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I mean the best options include converting players like castellanos to flex outfield/1b/dh roles or grandal to C/DH.

Yonder Alonso may be signable this offseason IMO

 

edit: lol sorry was not advocating moving Grandal to OF.

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