chitownsportsfan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 15 hours ago, tray said: Vaughn will get a lot of attention in Spring Training and will have a chance to break camp on the 25 (or is it 26) man roster. He has no chance unless Jose is hurt and even then he'd be behind other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: He has no chance unless Jose is hurt and even then he'd be behind other guys. I wouldn't rule it out that he is the best hitter. Jose could regress to about a 120 wRC+ and anderson could Regress some too. I wouldn't project him for that but I wouldn't rule out a big rookie season either. Pete alonso was a lesser prospect and he started with a huge first season. Now vaughn obviously won't club 50 bombs but I wouldn't be surprised if he had a .280 BA and .360 OBP with 25 homers or so. Obviously I would hope that vaughn is not their best hitter which because that likely means Tim and Jose didn't regress much and robert and moncada improved. But I wouldn't complain about a 130 by vaughn either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: He has no chance unless Jose is hurt and even then he'd be behind other guys. Who is he behind at DH? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 17 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: If he gets ~250 or so PA I can see 280/350/440. Hard to project anything on less playing time. I think its best to keep expectations for Vaughn largely in check until he proves otherwise. Rookies almost always tend to struggle in their adjustment to the major leagues. The advanced scouting and pitching is at a completely different level even to AAA. The club really needs to bring in a guy like Brad Miller who can play a few different positions and DH a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, steveno89 said: I think its best to keep expectations for Vaughn largely in check until he proves otherwise. Rookies almost always tend to struggle in their adjustment to the major leagues. The advanced scouting and pitching is at a completely different level even to AAA. The club really needs to bring in a guy like Brad Miller who can play a few different positions and DH a bit. The reason I think Vaughn will struggle less than most rookies is because of his approach at the plate. He's not a guy who will just keep chasing sliders away when he first comes up (Eloy, Robert, etc.). Even in the intrasquad games that were televised last year, I remember constantly thinking, "Wow, this guy puts up a professional at-bat every time up there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: The reason I think Vaughn will struggle less than most rookies is because of his approach at the plate. He's not a guy who will just keep chasing sliders away when he first comes up (Eloy, Robert, etc.). Even in the intrasquad games that were televised last year, I remember constantly thinking, "Wow, this guy puts up a professional at-bat every time up there." I'm confident Vaughn will hit too, I'm just not sure if it will be right away his rookie season. He has the best hit tool in the organization after Madrigal. Personally, I would send him to AAA and force him to earn a promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Yeah I am sure the White Sox just funded a sixty man circle jerk in Schaumburg for two months, as it couldn't have possibly done the team any good to have the players playing as close to real baseball as possible because absolutely no one was getting an infectious disease or injuries to where they would need replacements on the active roster. I'm certain they did everything they could to continue each player's development and protect their investment. I'm also certain if they felt it was better than live games they would continue that model. While it wasn't a totally lost season, from what we read and heard, it was less than what a full season in the minors would have produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Texsox said: I'm certain they did everything they could to continue each player's development and protect their investment. I'm also certain if they felt it was better than live games they would continue that model. While it wasn't a totally lost season, from what we read and heard, it was less than what a full season in the minors would have produced. I don't agree with that. There has been a lot of talk of players getting a much higher level of competition than what they would have seen if they had been on regular minor league teams. The Astros are actually of the opinion that there should be less minor league ball, and instead want more instant feedback in situations where behaviors can be instantly corrected. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-we-even-need-minor-league-baseball/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Texsox said: I'm also certain if they felt it was better than live games they would continue that model. Nobody's saying it's better than live games, we're just saying he didn't "take a year off" and everyone who watched him there last year and/or had access to his batted ball data thinks he's going to be a stud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I don't agree with that. There has been a lot of talk of players getting a much higher level of competition than what they would have seen if they had been on regular minor league teams. The Astros are actually of the opinion that there should be less minor league ball, and instead want more instant feedback in situations where behaviors can be instantly corrected. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-we-even-need-minor-league-baseball/ But then can Schaumburg truly tell us the full story? I don't think you can compare it to the pressure of traveling, opposing crowds jeering you,jone crowds placing pressure on you, being reported in the papers, being watched on TV and followed by fans, etc. You also have to factor in seeing different players and other teams game planning for you in a way you won't see coming. There are many benefits to the team controlled avenue, but it just can't be viewed the same as the minors. This being said, Vaughn clearly grew there so if he looked that good I'm on board. Edited February 2, 2021 by SonofaRoache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: But then can Schaumburg truly tell us the full story? I don't think you can compare it to the pressure of traveling, opposing crowds jeering you,jone crowds placing pressure on you, being reported in the papers, being watched on TV and followed by fans, etc. You also have to factor in seeing different players and other teams game planning for you in a way you won't see coming. There are many benefits to the team controlled avenue, but it just can't be viewed the same as the minors. This being said, Vaughn clearly grew there so if he looked that good I'm on board. Sure there are differences. I just can't go with the people pretending that because he didn't have a minor league season to put up "stats" that he can't be ready for anything this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: Nobody's saying it's better than live games, we're just saying he didn't "take a year off" and everyone who watched him there last year and/or had access to his batted ball data thinks he's going to be a stud He took a year off from playing games that would be close to what he will face in the MLB which we all agree is better. I'm sorry if I summarized too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Sure there are differences. I just can't go with the people pretending that because he didn't have a minor league season to put up "stats" that he can't be ready for anything this year. I agree. Everyone here knows enough about baseball to understand that circumstances caused him to miss a key part of developing. The long road trips, the endless stretches of games, the day to day stuff that makes a player is also important. My original point is my expectations are he's got HoF worthy potential. We all can see that. I'm not expecting a peak HoF performance from him *this* season. If he starts the season in Chicago it's going to be a huge test for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: Sure there are differences. I just can't go with the people pretending that because he didn't have a minor league season to put up "stats" that he can't be ready for anything this year. I agree. You can't simulate the baseball experience, but you can still throw tough pitches to a guy and make him field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 10 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said: What if I told you that they did face live pitching in game situations at Schaumburg... I understood that. I also understand facing a guy on a different roster fighting for a spot may be a bit different. I think long road trips, may be part of the learning process. How close to a full season of experience do you think he received? And would you rather he had that experience or had played a regular season? I'm not discounting what they did, they made the best of a bad situation. I expect they worked pretty damn hard to get better. I'm just not going to pretend it was a good as actually playing games. I think he would be further along if they played a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Texsox said: I understood that. I also understand facing a guy on a different roster fighting for a spot may be a bit different. I think long road trips, may be part of the learning process. How close to a full season of experience do you think he received? And would you rather he had that experience or had played a regular season? I'm not discounting what they did, they made the best of a bad situation. I expect they worked pretty damn hard to get better. I'm just not going to pretend it was a good as actually playing games. I think he would be further along if they played a season. What do you think Andrew Vaughn would have gotten by facing a number 5 starter in High A ball that he didn't get by going up against Sox top prospect pitchers with better stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: What do you think Andrew Vaughn would have gotten by facing a number 5 starter in High A ball that he didn't get by going up against Sox top prospect pitchers with better I think he would have gotten the experience of the third city this week, late game bus ride (I know they fly and are more comfortable), not feeling 100% and having to perform. Perhaps a pitcher that is willing to throw inside because it isn't his team's top prospect and his team wouldn't be calling him up to fill a Covid roster spot. Teammates fighting like hell to win a game and he's at bat. More stress. More life of a professional athlete experience. Longer season and learning how to save your body. They worked hard to be healthy and ready to play. I'm certain there are areas that he advanced further by having the extra practice time. Like you mentioned hitting against better pitchers. I'm certain that was very beneficial. Without the pressure of playing games he could focus on practicing skills under the guidance of coaches. That had to be good. No doubt the coaching staff worked overtime to make the best use of their time. I'm thinking if a full season netted 100% he got 75% or 80%. The rest he's probably going to get at the MLB level. It's enough for me to lower my expectations from RoY level to solid performer level performance. I'm excited to watch him play. And to directly answer about a 5th starter versus better pitchers, nothing much. In that situation he was better live hitting against the better pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Texsox said: I understood that. I also understand facing a guy on a different roster fighting for a spot may be a bit different. I think long road trips, may be part of the learning process. How close to a full season of experience do you think he received? And would you rather he had that experience or had played a regular season? I'm not discounting what they did, they made the best of a bad situation. I expect they worked pretty damn hard to get better. I'm just not going to pretend it was a good as actually playing games. I think he would be further along if they played a season. Selfishly I would have much preferred a full, normal season for my own viewing and following purposes. I do however believe it was advantageous facing higher quality pitchers (overall) more often than he may have in the minors. So even though the alternate site action made the best of a bad situation, I feel like player progression and development was still able to be had there. I'm all for the Sox signing a DH to hold the fort down and buy Vaughn more time, but if he does get/win the job, I don't think he'll look like an overmatched little leaguer out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said: Selfishly I would have much preferred a full, normal season for my own viewing and following purposes. I do however believe it was advantageous facing higher quality pitchers (overall) more often than he may have in the minors. So even though the alternate site action made the best of a bad situation, I feel like player progression and development was still able to be had there. I'm all for the Sox signing a DH to hold the fort down and buy Vaughn more time, but if he does get/win the job, I don't think he'll look like an overmatched little leaguer out there. Agreed. I see some areas that were probably better. But overall simulated games can't fully match. I hadn't thought about it before because it's such an out of the box idea, but cutting the MiLB season back and allowing stretches for teams to work out like they did last season may be better for player development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 I think the alternate site thing is the better the more raw a prospect is. A more raw player with mechanical and approach issues can benefit more from that kind of guided instruction where you can kinda mix up classic work on mechanics and stuff like that with live ABs. A more polished player like vaughn will benefit less from that but still it obviously is better to have that than just hitting in the cage and lifting weights. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) A lineup of Anderson, Moncada, Grandal, Abreu, Jimenez, Robert, Vaughn, Eaton and Madrigal is scary. Edited February 3, 2021 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 2:52 PM, southsider2k5 said: I don't agree with that. There has been a lot of talk of players getting a much higher level of competition than what they would have seen if they had been on regular minor league teams. The Astros are actually of the opinion that there should be less minor league ball, and instead want more instant feedback in situations where behaviors can be instantly corrected. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-we-even-need-minor-league-baseball/ I think that's what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 The shine of the astros also has come off a bit.they were the hottest shit in player dev and analytics but their farm system got a lot weaker recently with only 1 top100. Sure they also traded and graduated quite a few guys but also many people in the industry believe they overdid the new school stuff, especially the cancellation of scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 After reading the thread, I am doubling down on my opinion that Vaughn can break camp with the major league club *IF* he rakes in Sprong Training, i.e., over .300 BA and jacks 3 or more HRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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