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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:17 PM)
It gets me scared to death about our offseason.

 

Try not to think about Hawkisms. Think of the Buehrle conversation instead.

 

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 07:31 PM)
With a handful of arms that we aren't quite sure about, I think my plan for the offseason has changed a bit. I now want both Garland and Contreras traded, and two of Floyd/Haeger/Egbert/Gonzalez to take over the fourth and fifth spots. I understand the potential for disaster is there, especially since you're moving an above average #5 starter in Danks into a spot where he becomes below average (#3), but the 2008 season is going to be a gamble anyways. Trade Garland and Contreras for a combination of your 2008 SS and prospects, sign one of those CFers (Bradley, Jones, Cameron, Rowand/Hunter in that order), let Crede take third, put Fields in left and hope to hell that you can mash the crap out of teams (and that your bullpen bounces back big time).

Unfortunately, I still think it's going to be impossible to trade Jose without the Sox picking up at least 1/3 of his contract, which is probably just a silly thing to do, given that we'd be still getting virtually nothing back. I think it's highly, highly likely that our starting 5 to open next year is Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd.

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 09:31 PM)
With a handful of arms that we aren't quite sure about, I think my plan for the offseason has changed a bit. I now want both Garland and Contreras traded, and two of Floyd/Haeger/Egbert/Gonzalez to take over the fourth and fifth spots. I understand the potential for disaster is there, especially since you're moving an above average #5 starter in Danks into a spot where he becomes below average (#3), but the 2008 season is going to be a gamble anyways. Trade Garland and Contreras for a combination of your 2008 SS and prospects, sign one of those CFers (Bradley, Jones, Cameron, Rowand/Hunter in that order), let Crede take third, put Fields in left and hope to hell that you can mash the crap out of teams (and that your bullpen bounces back big time).

The White Sox would be in the hunt for the #1 pick again with that rotation. Danks as a #3 is scary. He couldn't finish out this season. Floyd blows. The others would be rookies who most likely struggle. That's 3 out of 5 that are below average and really counting on Vazquez as a #2 guy would be very scary. Pitching wins. I really don't think you can say without a doubt Danks is an above average #5 starter. Making him #3 isn't potential disaster, its pretty close to guaranteed disaster.

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QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 08:04 PM)
The White Sox would be in the hunt for the #1 pick again with that rotation. Danks as a #3 is scary. He couldn't finish out this season. Floyd blows. The others would be rookies who most likely struggle. That's 3 out of 5 that are below average and really counting on Vazquez as a #2 guy would be very scary. Pitching wins. I really don't think you can say without a doubt Danks is an above average #5 starter. Making him #3 isn't potential disaster, its pretty close to guaranteed disaster.

Based on their performances this year, I think many people here would much rather see Danks in the #3 role next year than Contreras...but I really don't think Jose is moveable.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 09:35 PM)
I think it's highly, highly likely that our starting 5 to open next year is Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd.

If that's the case, it has to be Buehrle, Vazquez, and the best three of Gio/Danks/Floyd/Egbert after the break... Heck, if the Sox continue to play poorly next season, which is a very good bet right now. You could see Fautino getting starts down the stretch. (He's going to be a fast riser)

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This would be the perfect sequence....Floyd pitches well, but we lose and Tampa won. I'm sure Fields couldn't get a good grip on that ball.

 

The perfect scenario would be Thome hits a game-winning home run after

the delay.

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QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 08:16 PM)
If that's the case, it has to be Buehrle, Vazquez, and the best three of Gio/Danks/Floyd/Egbert after the break... Heck, if the Sox continue to play poorly next season, which is a very good bet right now. You could see Fautino getting starts down the stretch. (He's going to be a fast riser)

On that I'll agree. And I might even throw Broadway and Haeger into that pot as well. If you start the season with Contreras, FLoyd, and Danks all in the rotation, and a couple of them wind up as disasters...then after about 2 months, 1 month at the earliest if things are just horrendous, you find some way to replace whoever it is that is dying out there with whoever's performing at AAA.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:22 PM)
On that I'll agree. And I might even throw Broadway and Haeger into that pot as well. If you start the season with Contreras, FLoyd, and Danks all in the rotation, and a couple of them wind up as disasters...then after about 2 months, 1 month at the earliest if things are just horrendous, you find some way to replace whoever it is that is dying out there with whoever's performing at AAA.

Haeger will probably be out of options at the end of next year (When did he get put on the 40-man?), so he'll almost certainly be given a long look like Floyd's getting this year on another bad Sox team.

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I could see a rotation of Buehrle-Vazquez-Danks-Floyd-Egbert. However, if that's the case, I think it is automatic that you have a 7 man rotation and one of Broadway, Haeger, Massett, or even Phillips in the pen.

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So how did Floyd look tonight?

 

Another promising outing, he seems to be getting it together a bit.

 

On Keith's scenario, I think most of us would go for that since you're really improving more for the long - term, bur considering Ozzie and KW want to win next season, I can't see both of them being traded.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:31 PM)
I could see a rotation of Buehrle-Vazquez-Danks-Floyd-Egbert. However, if that's the case, I think it is automatic that you have a 7 man rotation and one of Broadway, Haeger, Massett, or even Phillips in the pen.

Danks is 0-7 with a 6.80 ERA his last 8 starts and he's the #3? Gavin Floyd is a #4? A rookie #5? Has everyone just dismissed what these guys have done this season?You better have a ton of relievers who can throw a ton of innings and an offense that can lead the league in runs scored if you want to be anywhere near .500. The pitching staff is scary.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 09:17 PM)
It gets me scared to death about our offseason.

I don't know how the Sox OBP problem would be solved with Eckstein, Richar, and Fields in the line-up. They need to get guys who can get on base, and who can catch and throw the ball. Eckstein is going to be paid a lot more than he's worth.

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QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:42 PM)
I don't know how the Sox OBP problem would be solved with Eckstein, Richar, and Fields in the line-up. They need to get guys who can get on base, and who can catch and throw the ball. Eckstein is going to be paid a lot more than he's worth.

If you're looking to add OBP and defense to the top of the order then David Dejesus and his career .360 OBP and 90 ISOd for the 2007 season would look awful good in a Sox uni in '08

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QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:45 PM)
There's a novel idea, I'm surprised hasn't caught on yet.

haha, I just caught that to. I meant BULLPEN! :D

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:46 PM)
If you're looking to add OBP and defense to the top of the order then David Dejesus and his career .360 OBP and 90 ISOd for the 2007 season would look awful good in a Sox uni in '08

 

Good call. Him and Furcal would make 2008 an exciting team to watch. I've wanted Dejesus for a couple years now. Very nice call Kalapse.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:46 PM)
If you're looking to add OBP and defense to the top of the order then David Dejesus and his career .360 OBP and 90 ISOd for the 2007 season would look awful good in a Sox uni in '08

Yeah, but I don't see Moore and Royals giving him up unless they got a REAL good package.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:46 PM)
If you're looking to add OBP and defense to the top of the order then David Dejesus and his career .360 OBP and 90 ISOd for the 2007 season would look awful good in a Sox uni in '08

What's his contract situation? I've always thought he was a bit underrated just because he's stuck in KC.

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QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:42 PM)
I don't know how the Sox OBP problem would be solved with Eckstein, Richar, and Fields in the line-up. They need to get guys who can get on base, and who can catch and throw the ball. Eckstein is going to be paid a lot more than he's worth.

Signing Eckstein is nothing more than an "anything but Uribe" scenario. It gives our fans the illusion improvements have been made.

 

We really have no choice but to play Richar and Fields. They're going to allow the White Sox possible financial wiggle room to sign their next batch of grinders.

 

I mean, not every player can be like Asdrubal Cabrera and produce immediately upon promotion. Cmon, now. Everyone knows it's rare for any player to succeed within three years of first playing in the majors.

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:52 PM)
Yeah, but I don't see Moore and Royals giving him up unless they got a REAL good package.

 

They basically need pitching and maybe a solid spect OF wise. I'm thinking we can basically sell off a Broadway/McCulloch (or even perhaps both) and maybe a young OF (BA?) and perhaps that could entice them and maybe add a throw in. But who knows if they are willing to trade THAT kind of talent in the same division even though Sisco had high upside when they traded him to us.

Edited by SoxAce

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QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:53 PM)
What's his contract situation? I've always thought he was a bit underrated just because he's stuck in KC.

pretty damn good...

signed 5-year deal worth 13.8M thru 2010 season on 3/9/06- + he receives salaries of 500K in 2006, 2M in 2007, 2.5M in 2008, 3.6M in 2009 and 4.7M in 2010- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2011 worth 6M or a 500K buyout- + if he does not qualify for arbitration following the 2006 season, his salaries are reduced and he would instead make 600K in 2007, 2.3M in 2008, 3.45M in 2009 and 4.6M in 2010 (option value/buyout remain the same)- + 2005 salary: 320K (unilaterally renewed)

Agent: Danny Horwits

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QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:53 PM)
What's his contract situation? I've always thought he was a bit underrated just because he's stuck in KC.

08: $2.5M

09: $3.6M

10: $4.7M

11: $6M TO or $500K BO

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QUOTE(BearSox @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:57 PM)
pretty damn good...

Actually that's pretty damn bad. Because we don't have any talent to give up.

 

You can throw out names like McCulloch and Broadway and Haeger, but opposing GMs will want one of two pitchers this off-season; Gio or Fautino. And any trade that moves one of them figures to be a poor one.

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QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:55 PM)
Signing Eckstein is nothing more than an "anything but Uribe" scenario. It gives our fans the illusion improvements have been made.

 

We really have no choice but to play Richar and Fields. They're going to allow the White Sox possible financial wiggle room to sign their next batch of grinders.

 

I mean, not every player can be like Asdrubal Cabrera and produce immediately upon promotion. Cmon, now. Everyone knows it's rare for any player to succeed within three years of first playing in the majors.

The White Sox used to have guys who had success when they were promoted. Thomas, Lee, Ordonez, even Crede was on fire in 2002. Mike Caruso hit .300 has a rookie didn't he? In fact, Slappy's OPS was only .009 lower than Josh Fields. If Richar did that, we would be hearing he's a future HOFer and what a genius KW is for acquiring him. I don't think I've ever seen so many people so impressed with so little shown. Maybe he'll be good some day, but right now he is not a major league calibur player.

Edited by Dick Allen

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