Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) Marquez was viewed as a throw in by pretty much everyone, a guy that KW thought might be able to turn into a Garland, but his arm was never there. Danks was viewed as a top prospect in all of baseball, and Molina is getting that attention now. It's like thinking Daniel McCutchen was a top prospect because he was a first round pick, asinine. Marquez also tore up his elbow with bone hips that eh tried to pitch through. Which is of course why I don't like the return here...because its 1 young player for a guy at MLB-level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I am amazed (but not really) at the stupidity of this fan base. We have an inability to think logically about something. Instead, we overreact with the first thought that comes to our head. What's the LAST thing a rebuilding team needs? A closer. What's the first thing a rebuilding team needs? Pitching prospects. Don't misconstrue someone complaining about the returns from trading a particular player vice complaining about simply trading a particular player. I don't think I've read anyone b****ing about Santos being dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) I love the people getting all hot and bothered over losing a closer. I don't think that's the case. It's trading away a cheap player you had under control for a while for a player who is similar in nature. What was gained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I am amazed (but not really) at the stupidity of this fan base. We have an inability to think logically about something. Instead, we overreact with the first thought that comes to our head. What's the LAST thing a rebuilding team needs? A closer. What's the first thing a rebuilding team needs? Pitching prospects. I feel sorry for KW because it is impossible to win with these fans. He guys and buys, and we b**** about not having a system. He sells and builds the system, and we b**** about moving our MLB pieces. PICK ONE! You feel sorry for KW, he created this FN mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) Missing the point. Swisher was a "please take him off our hands trade", the return didn't matter. I respectfully disagree with that but that's not even my main point which is I think the Sox got too little a return for Santos. KW should've waited until some of these other closers got snagged up, someone would've been willing to overpay for Santos more than Toronto did (if they even did-time will tell). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:00 PM) KW claims with Thornton, Crain and Reed he could trade Santos, sounds like KW not trading him now to me. Thornton is too expensive to keep and we have some younger cheaper lefties waiting in the wings. He should be as good as gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:00 PM) KW claims with Thornton, Crain and Reed he could trade Santos, sounds like KW not trading him now to me. Now everyone ought to know that is a smokescreen until proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) Wow, that is an awful return. Yeah, I agree. Callis was just on 670 and said this guy was scheduled to be the Blue Jays #18 prospect. Now I know the Jays have a deep system but still. I think we could have gotten a lot more for Santos had put on the market and didn't just give up for a guy we targeted. Plus I honestly felt like his value would have been higher at the deadline, but oh well. At least this prospect seems less likely to bust if KW targeted him and this Paddy supported the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:01 PM) You feel sorry for KW, he created this FN mess. He also created a World Champion. His intentions were ALWAYS in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) I am amazed (but not really) at the stupidity of this fan base. We have an inability to think logically about something. Instead, we overreact with the first thought that comes to our head. What's the LAST thing a rebuilding team needs? A closer. What's the first thing a rebuilding team needs? Pitching prospects. I feel sorry for KW because it is impossible to win with these fans. He guys and buys, and we b**** about not having a system. He sells and builds the system, and we b**** about moving our MLB pieces. PICK ONE! Preach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) I am amazed (but not really) at the stupidity of this fan base. We have an inability to think logically about something. Instead, we overreact with the first thought that comes to our head. What's the LAST thing a rebuilding team needs? A closer. What's the first thing a rebuilding team needs? Pitching prospects. I feel sorry for KW because it is impossible to win with these fans. He guys and buys, and we b**** about not having a system. He sells and builds the system, and we b**** about moving our MLB pieces. PICK ONE! Agree on all counts. The only problem I have is the man in charge of the rebuilding plan. KW has lost all benefit of doubt and should be the next one out the door if the prospects he acquires fail to show progress. Unfortunately, a rebuilding period probably buys KW at least another two years before Reiny considers replacing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Would people have been happier if we traded Santos for Edison Volquez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:02 PM) Yeah, I agree. Callis was just on 670 and said this guy was scheduled to be the Blue Jays #18 prospect. Now I know the Jays have a deep system but still. I think we could have gotten a lot more for Santos had put on the market and didn't just give up for a guy we targeted. Plus I honestly felt like his value would have been higher at the deadline, but oh well. At least this prospect seems less likely to bust if KW targeted him and this Paddy supported the move. #18 in their system? That doesn't sound right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 We need at least 5 more solid trades like this one.. I hope KW doesn't stop now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) Agree on all counts. The only problem I have is the man in charge of the rebuilding plan. KW has lost all benefit of doubt and should be the next one out the door if the prospects he acquires fail to show progress. Unfortunately, a rebuilding period probably buys KW at least another two years before Reiny considers replacing him. I couldn't agree more with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) Would people have been happier if we traded Santos for Edison Volquez? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I am amazed (but not really) at the stupidity of this fan base. We have an inability to think logically about something. Instead, we overreact with the first thought that comes to our head. What's the LAST thing a rebuilding team needs? A closer. What's the first thing a rebuilding team needs? Pitching prospects. And everything you said here is NOT AN ARGUMENT to discount the main argument most of 'the stupid fans have' that this was a less than fair haul for Santos. Ok so he was 3.55 era and blew 6 saves...but at least he was pitching in the majors. And he's freaking cheap as heck... NO ONE has said the pitcher we got sucks. NO ONE (that I read)...the complaint is fair value wasn't met. Kenny couldn't have gotten more? We got a 22 year old who has all of 24 innings above the A ball level, a converted infielder for goodness sakes...there is a risk in going after this guy, a risk that would have necessitated a credible argument to maybe have another prospect (albeit lower ranked) added into the mix. We gave up THREE prospects (including 2 elite) for a mediocre outfielder (swisher). It's amazing Kenny being so willing to dump prospects by the bucketload is so easy to dupe on the other side. Try out his trade for Jackson...Hudson for Jackson seemed to be a MORE THAN fair deal, but freaking Kenny adds in another prospect (Holmberg) albeit a lower prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) #18 in their system? That doesn't sound right. It isn't right. It was last year's ranking. BA hasn't done 2012 for the Jays yet. Sickels didn't have him on his top 20 last year, and he moved all the way to number 2 for 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 07:04 PM) Huh? Reds have been offering him up for closers supposedly (H. Street and Bailey) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Agree on all counts. The only problem I have is the man in charge of the rebuilding plan. KW has lost all benefit of doubt and should be the next one out the door if the prospects he acquires fail to show progress. Unfortunately, a rebuilding period probably buys KW at least another two years before Reiny considers replacing him. KW should of already be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) Reds have been offering him up for closers supposedly (H. Street and Bailey) No interest in that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) Now everyone ought to know that is a smokescreen until proven otherwise. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) And everything you said here is NOT AN ARGUMENT to discount the main argument most of 'the stupid fans have' that this was a less than fair haul for Santos. Ok so he was 3.55 era and blew 6 saves...but at least he was pitching in the majors. And he's freaking cheap as heck... NO ONE has said the pitcher we got sucks. NO ONE (that I read)...the complaint is fair value wasn't met. Kenny couldn't have gotten more? We got a 22 year old who has all of 24 innings above the A ball level, a converted infielder for goodness sakes...there is a risk in going after this guy, a risk that would have necessitated a credible argument to maybe have another prospect (albeit lower ranked) added into the mix. We gave up THREE prospects (including 2 elite) for a mediocre outfielder (swisher). It's amazing Kenny being so willing to dump prospects by the bucketload is so easy to dupe on the other side. Try out his trade for Jackson...Hudson for Jackson seemed to be a MORE THAN fair deal, but freaking Kenny adds in another prospect (Holmberg) albeit a lower prospect. Funny you should mention that he's a converted infielder....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Chicago Tribune Scouting Report This report is less than flattering - basically says the Sox over overrating this guy because the guy they got from Toronto likes him, and that he projects as a back of the rotation starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) I am amazed (but not really) at the stupidity of this fan base. We have an inability to think logically about something. Instead, we overreact with the first thought that comes to our head. What's the LAST thing a rebuilding team needs? A closer. What's the first thing a rebuilding team needs? Pitching prospects. I feel sorry for KW because it is impossible to win with these fans. He guys and buys, and we b**** about not having a system. He sells and builds the system, and we b**** about moving our MLB pieces. PICK ONE! Unless there's several pages of discontent in the middle of this thread, I'd say a majority approve of it. I know I do, and you know damn well that pre-Jordan4life days I was the obnoxious poster complaining about our system and saying "Where's our (insert player -- formerly Liriano, now Gonzalez)?" We're not going anywhere next season. I don't give a f*** about Buehrle, or the casual fan, or the payroll -- none of that matters. If anything, this move proves to me that Williams has more sense about his team now than ever before. I'd like to believe this is Williams parting gift, knowing he'll be out the door next year and may as well do what he can to try and improve the team down the line. And before southsider2k5 comes in with "you don't know how long that'll take," nope -- I sure don't. But I'm relatively young and I can wait for a LONNNGGG time. I'm tired of the alternative of building on the fly. Edited December 6, 2011 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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