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35 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Subsequently, if that shit attitude is combined with a terrible work ethic, you're done. Me, I'll complain every now and again about work and I've certainly aced the idea of pointing out the flaws in others, but I can fake it with the best of them and I come to work every day to work. I don't come to talk and be friends with coworkers or even clients. I come to work. My parents both had good jobs on the surface in terms of risk and safety but they did them in extremely tough work environments. What I do for a living is very white collar but I put everything I have into it and I know not to b**** profusely because of what I saw how hard working my parents were despite the shitty surroundings that they had.

From reading Jack's posts, particularly in this subforum in many topics but particularly this one, it's not like he's picky on the job offered but he hates to take order no matter how simplistic. That's life, dude. If you were hard enough and forget about the fact that you're taking "orders," you'll soon be in their shoes bossing people around and likely taking less verbal abuse.

You nailed it. I'm a control freak and like to be in control of everything. I like to do things my way, mostly because if I don't it makes it exponentially more difficult do complete my task/project. 

I've always had an authority issue. It took me a very long time to acknowledge that not everyone else is a complete moron. Now I like to surround myself with people who aren't morons. My standards are pretty high there. I don't get along with people who ignore concrete evidence and data about best practices. I like quantitative data. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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26 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You nailed it. I'm a control freak and like to be in control of everything. I like to do things my way, mostly because if I don't it makes it exponentially more difficult do complete my task/project. 

I've always had an authority issue. It took me a very long time to acknowledge that not everyone else is a complete moron. Now I like to surround myself with people who aren't morons. My standards are pretty high there. I don't get along with people who ignore concrete evidence and data about best practices. I like quantitative data. 

I have to say I will never get tired of Jack Parkman musings about life. I don't agree with most, if any, of them, but they are always entertaining.

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On 6/28/2019 at 12:13 AM, Jack Parkman said:

This is how I roll: 

Every job is broken down into tasks and subtasks, and with the completion of each task there is a quantitative level of progress attached. 

Upon being hired, the tasks required for advancement are clearly defined. 

If you complete goals X, Y, and Z, you get A dollars. 

If you go above and beyond that, for X time frame, you get promoted/ a raise and extra responsibility. 

 

On 9/2/2019 at 4:30 AM, Jack Parkman said:

So I was watching a video from my favorite capitalist, Nick Hanauer. He had a quote in the video where he said "Ambition in the absence of opportunity creates anger and resentment." That fits me to a tee. I've always been ambitious, probably to a fault. I realize the sacrifices necessary to get to where you want to go in life, and have made the sacrifices with zero opportunity. As long as I'm making progress, and seeing the fruits of my labor I'll work as hard or harder than anyone. If progress stalls, I'll seek new opportunities. The issue comes when you're never getting those opportunities. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and realized that my blind ambition has gotten in the way a lot. I always want more quickly. One of the things I had was an unrealistic expectation of how quickly you are able to advance or take on new tasks and responsibilities at work. I need a more clearly defined timeframe and and career development path.

One of the things I've decided is to go into my next job(whatever it may be) and just do my absolute best at what they ask me to do, don't attempt to read between the lines and let my work speak for itself. Try to learn the lay of the land before trying to show how ambitious I am. Maybe, just maybe my blind ambition was seen more as a threat than a positive trait. And also, if you're bored for a while that's to be expected for the first 12-18 months or so. Suck it up and deal with it. A lot of my clashes with my bosses came from unrealistic expectations on my part about how much and when I could gain more responsibility and new projects when I got bored, instead of realizing that that the groundwork wasn't laid for my long term success yet.

I'm really trying to square these two very different posts, Jack. On one hand, you seem to need a heavy amount of supervision to function, whether it's clearly defined goals set in advance or 1-to-1 meetings with your boss, or whatever. On the other hand, you expect more and more responsibility and are disappointed when you don't get it.

Responsibility requires autonomy. If you need checkups and timelines and supervision, that's fine, but you're not going to move up much. Managers need to not only manage other people, but also themselves. Nobody holds my hand or checks in on me throughout the day- my boss is 400 miles away. They can rest easy because they know that I understand the mission and will get it done. If you need meetings to make sure you're prioritizing the right things and using your time effectively, nobody is going to empower you with more duties and responsibilities.

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21 minutes ago, The Sir said:

 

I'm really trying to square these two very different posts, Jack. On one hand, you seem to need a heavy amount of supervision to function, whether it's clearly defined goals set in advance or 1-to-1 meetings with your boss, or whatever. On the other hand, you expect more and more responsibility and are disappointed when you don't get it.

Responsibility requires autonomy. If you need checkups and timelines and supervision, that's fine, but you're not going to move up much. Managers need to not only manage other people, but also themselves. Nobody holds my hand or checks in on me throughout the day- my boss is 400 miles away. They can rest easy because they know that I understand the mission and will get it done. If you need meetings to make sure you're prioritizing the right things and using your time effectively, nobody is going to empower you with more duties and responsibilities.

At this point, I really don't care about career advancement, it's all about survival. I just want to get in somewhere and keep a job. That's all. I used to, but I never realized how much of a PITA I can be so I really don't expect it anymore. 

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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

At this point, I really don't care about career advancement, it's all about survival. I just want to get in somewhere and keep a job. That's all. I used to, but I never realized how much of a PITA I can be so I really don't expect it anymore. 

Jack, how long have you been out of work? What jobs have you applied to recently? What jobs are you targeting?

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42 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Jack, how long have you been out of work? What jobs have you applied to recently? What jobs are you targeting?

I've been out of work for a couple years now, but I've been doing Uber Eats to make a few bucks in the meantime. Part of my issue is that I really don't know where to go from here. Don't want to do software QA anymore. 

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20 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

You nailed it. I'm a control freak and like to be in control of everything. I like to do things my way, mostly because if I don't it makes it exponentially more difficult do complete my task/project. 

I've always had an authority issue. It took me a very long time to acknowledge that not everyone else is a complete moron. Now I like to surround myself with people who aren't morons. My standards are pretty high there. I don't get along with people who ignore concrete evidence and data about best practices. I like quantitative data. 

The problem is very few things truly have concrete evidence and data. Even the baseball advanced metrics are an algorithm designed by what someone though was important. Some of it used linear regressive to determine which variable were the most predictive but even then they aren't that high.

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10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The problem is very few things truly have concrete evidence and data. Even the baseball advanced metrics are an algorithm designed by what someone though was important. Some of it used linear regressive to determine which variable were the most predictive but even then they aren't that high.

It doesn't even have to be Quantitative, as long as it's backed by solid evidence of success. If a lot of managers in your industry are doing something and it has worked well for a long period of time, why wouldn't you find out as much as you can and do it too? 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I've been out of work for a couple years now, but I've been doing Uber Eats to make a few bucks in the meantime. Part of my issue is that I really don't know where to go from here. Don't want to do software QA anymore. 

What is your degree in and where is it from? It doesn’t matter that much but I thought I would ask.

I don’t have a disability so I can’t say that I have been in your shoes, but I do know what it is like to study something and decide the job or career isn’t for me. I know what it feels like to feel stuck.

I went to school to try and be a few things - a high school English teacher, a sports journalist or news broadcaster or work in sports in some capacity. After four years of school, multiple college majors and one college transfer, I graduated with a BA in Business Administration/Management.

I have worked for a professional sports team, a PR firm, a startup, as a leave administrator and assistant account manager for an EAP company in Chicago and I have worked for an insurance company. None of the jobs have given me fulfillment and only my current one has given me a middle class wage. The current employer has paid for graduate school classes in data science and I am taking an elective in health care administration (I have also tried to pick up Python and have learned about ICD and CPT codes on my own). My wife and I own a home in the suburbs and she wants kids in the near future, something I am warming up to but concerned about with my current salary. I’m 31 and she’s older.

I have a job where opportunity feels limited because the major offices are in Washington and Connecticut and I don’t work alongside a local team to learn directly from them. Opportunities I have been presented with are underwriting, data science and implementation. The issue is that I can’t learn very well with remote teams and would like to get into a health care related industry that would pay me better, gives me interesting work (data analysis, health care informatics) and may eventually allow me to go back to school for something that won’t get automated and has an impact on the world, like nursing. I have a connection somewhere that might allow me to hit on the first two of these things, along with working with a local team but it’s not perfect.

My point in telling you this is that you aren’t the only one who feels stuck out there. I’ve changed jobs several times and I still don’t feel closer to finding meaningful work. And with the obligations that I have, I may never have that. But the one thing I have is hope, hope that what I am doing now will pay off for me in the future. That gives me some optimism even if there is lots of uncertainty. I certainly can’t imagine all of what you face but I would point out that with a positive mindset, some things are possible in life no matter the circumstances.

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48 minutes ago, The Beast said:

What is your degree in and where is it from? It doesn’t matter that much but I thought I would ask.

I don’t have a disability so I can’t say that I have been in your shoes, but I do know what it is like to study something and decide the job or career isn’t for me. I know what it feels like to feel stuck.

I went to school to try and be a few things - a high school English teacher, a sports journalist or news broadcaster or work in sports in some capacity. After four years of school, multiple college majors and one college transfer, I graduated with a BA in Business Administration/Management.

I have worked for a professional sports team, a PR firm, a startup, as a leave administrator and assistant account manager for an EAP company in Chicago and I have worked for an insurance company. None of the jobs have given me fulfillment and only my current one has given me a middle class wage. The current employer has paid for graduate school classes in data science and I am taking an elective in health care administration (I have also tried to pick up Python and have learned about ICD and CPT codes on my own). My wife and I own a home in the suburbs and she wants kids in the near future, something I am warming up to but concerned about with my current salary. I’m 31 and she’s older.

I have a job where opportunity feels limited because the major offices are in Washington and Connecticut and I don’t work alongside a local team to learn directly from them. Opportunities I have been presented with are underwriting, data science and implementation. The issue is that I can’t learn very well with remote teams and would like to get into a health care related industry that would pay me better, gives me interesting work (data analysis, health care informatics) and may eventually allow me to go back to school for something that won’t get automated and has an impact on the world, like nursing. I have a connection somewhere that might allow me to hit on the first two of these things, along with working with a local team but it’s not perfect.

My point in telling you this is that you aren’t the only one who feels stuck out there. I’ve changed jobs several times and I still don’t feel closer to finding meaningful work. And with the obligations that I have, I may never have that. But the one thing I have is hope, hope that what I am doing now will pay off for me in the future. That gives me some optimism even if there is lots of uncertainty. I certainly can’t imagine all of what you face but I would point out that with a positive mindset, some things are possible in life no matter the circumstances.

I'd love to work in my field. I have a BS in chemical engineering. It's that I've been shut out. It's way too late now. I graduated 8 years ago and never got a shot. It's their loss. I think being a network specialist would be fun. I like to fix things. Something around that where gaining certifications are relatively inexpensive would be ideal. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd love to work in my field. I have a BS in chemical engineering. It's that I've been shut out. It's way too late now. I graduated 8 years ago and never got a shot. It's their loss. I think being a network specialist would be fun. I like to fix things. Something around that where gaining certifications are relatively inexpensive would be ideal. 

I’d be willing to help you explore and find something Jack. If I can help, let me know. Send me your resume and your thoughts on fields that might be interesting to you and I’ll see what I can come up with.

Edited by The Beast

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On 9/5/2019 at 4:58 PM, The Beast said:

What is your degree in and where is it from? It doesn’t matter that much but I thought I would ask.

I don’t have a disability so I can’t say that I have been in your shoes, but I do know what it is like to study something and decide the job or career isn’t for me. I know what it feels like to feel stuck.

I went to school to try and be a few things - a high school English teacher, a sports journalist or news broadcaster or work in sports in some capacity. After four years of school, multiple college majors and one college transfer, I graduated with a BA in Business Administration/Management.

I have worked for a professional sports team, a PR firm, a startup, as a leave administrator and assistant account manager for an EAP company in Chicago and I have worked for an insurance company. None of the jobs have given me fulfillment and only my current one has given me a middle class wage. The current employer has paid for graduate school classes in data science and I am taking an elective in health care administration (I have also tried to pick up Python and have learned about ICD and CPT codes on my own). My wife and I own a home in the suburbs and she wants kids in the near future, something I am warming up to but concerned about with my current salary. I’m 31 and she’s older.

I have a job where opportunity feels limited because the major offices are in Washington and Connecticut and I don’t work alongside a local team to learn directly from them. Opportunities I have been presented with are underwriting, data science and implementation. The issue is that I can’t learn very well with remote teams and would like to get into a health care related industry that would pay me better, gives me interesting work (data analysis, health care informatics) and may eventually allow me to go back to school for something that won’t get automated and has an impact on the world, like nursing. I have a connection somewhere that might allow me to hit on the first two of these things, along with working with a local team but it’s not perfect.

My point in telling you this is that you aren’t the only one who feels stuck out there. I’ve changed jobs several times and I still don’t feel closer to finding meaningful work. And with the obligations that I have, I may never have that. But the one thing I have is hope, hope that what I am doing now will pay off for me in the future. That gives me some optimism even if there is lots of uncertainty. I certainly can’t imagine all of what you face but I would point out that with a positive mindset, some things are possible in life no matter the circumstances.

Good post Beast. Sounds like you are doing well. Hope you find that fulfilling work.

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On 9/4/2019 at 5:31 PM, Jack Parkman said:

You nailed it. I'm a control freak and like to be in control of everything. I like to do things my way, mostly because if I don't it makes it exponentially more difficult do complete my task/project. 

I've always had an authority issue. It took me a very long time to acknowledge that not everyone else is a complete moron. Now I like to surround myself with people who aren't morons. My standards are pretty high there. I don't get along with people who ignore concrete evidence and data about best practices. I like quantitative data. 

You sound like you may be better off working for yourself or being the boss of a company. You said you like to be in control of "everything." And "do things my way." That's tough in the job world unless u are very established at the company.

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13 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You sound like you may be better off working for yourself or being the boss of a company. You said you like to be in control of "everything." And "do things my way." That's tough in the job world unless u are very established at the company.

I'm willing to concede that. Gaining my independence trumps everything. The huge issue is that with today's sophisticated interview processes, some of my more negative tendencies will be uncovered and I'll never get s chance to prove myself. I want to work for myself. I kind of need that flexibility. I actually like project work and "the gig economy" it allows me to re-charge. This is all a huge journey. I might figure it out, I might not. Have fun and learn along the way. 

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5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm willing to concede that. Gaining my independence trumps everything. The huge issue is that with today's sophisticated interview processes, some of my more negative tendencies will be uncovered and I'll never get s chance to prove myself. I want to work for myself. I kind of need that flexibility. I actually like project work and "the gig economy" it allows me to re-charge. This is all a huge journey. I might figure it out, I might not. Have fun and learn along the way. 

If gaining your independence trumps everything then you have to be able to offer the world something.  It’s always funny when somebody says, “I don’t want to be in sales!”  While we all know they mean they don’t want to be a salesman, the truth is we’re all in sales.  You have to be able to offer a good or a service to live, so why not be the one collecting the dough.  It doesn’t have to be proprietary either.  You can copy the guy next door- there’s plenty of room for everybody in the self-employed sector.  It’s just a change in mindset as Hawk would say.  

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4 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

If gaining your independence trumps everything then you have to be able to offer the world something.  It’s always funny when somebody says, “I don’t want to be in sales!”  While we all know they mean they don’t want to be a salesman, the truth is we’re all in sales.  You have to be able to offer a good or a service to live, so why not be the one collecting the dough.  It doesn’t have to be proprietary either.  You can copy the guy next door- there’s plenty of room for everybody in the self-employed sector.  It’s just a change in mindset as Hawk would say.  

I have things to offer. I'm actually really good at a lot of things. Ideas of jobs that I'd like and I'm good at: internet network technician, any sort of handyman/home installer work. I'm really good at computers and building things.

I was actually good at software QA, but found it incredibly boring and unfulfilling. If I wasn't an idiot and dated a co-worker there that went south horribly, I probably would have stuck it out at that company and tried to make the best of it. Unfortunately, it was a hostile environment. There were other issues going on there. 

My boss told me the following at my software QA job: When you're on focus, you're near the top of my best employees. The problem is that you're incredibly inconsistent on focus. I never know what I'm getting when you come into work each day. 

This is because of my executive dysfunction. It's awful. And I was bored. I have a feeling that if I started working there today, things would go differently. I also never took that job seriously as a career, mostly because I didn't think that I'd be there forever. 

I have plenty of things to offer. I have plenty of skills. If I don't have them, I can obtain them. 

I spent my money on College, unwisely. Part of that was lack of access to information. Things have happened in a way I couldn't have anticipated. 

There are these jobs available, but I don't have quite the skills that they want for them. Going back to college isn't an option, unless it's free. The risk is MUCH higher for a person on the spectrum not ever finding a job and being saddled with debt than for a neurotypical(random person) I've done research on the subject. NTs struggle with it too. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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58 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I have things to offer. I'm actually really good at a lot of things. Ideas of jobs that I'd like and I'm good at: internet network technician, any sort of handyman/home installer work. I'm really good at computers and building things.

I was actually good at software QA, but found it incredibly boring and unfulfilling. If I wasn't an idiot and dated a co-worker there that went south horribly, I probably would have stuck it out at that company and tried to make the best of it. Unfortunately, it was a hostile environment. There were other issues going on there. 

My boss told me the following at my software QA job: When you're on focus, you're near the top of my best employees. The problem is that you're incredibly inconsistent on focus. I never know what I'm getting when you come into work each day. 

This is because of my executive dysfunction. It's awful. And I was bored. I have a feeling that if I started working there today, things would go differently. I also never took that job seriously as a career, mostly because I didn't think that I'd be there forever. 

Dude.  Pay your $300 to the Secretary of State and incorporate.  File your S-Corp paperwork right away and pay somebody a couple hundred to make a logo.  Go get a bank account and sell one of those services.  You don’t need employees or equipment or an office.  Go sell a job, however long it takes and then go get the insurance.  Subcontract with companies that provide materials.  You can do all this from a home office with basically zero overhead.  Just gotta hustle.  

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8 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Dude.  Pay your $300 to the Secretary of State and incorporate.  File your S-Corp paperwork right away and pay somebody a couple hundred to make a logo.  Go get a bank account and sell one of those services.  You don’t need employees or equipment or an office.  Go sell a job, however long it takes and then go get the insurance.  Subcontract with companies that provide materials.  You can do all this from a home office with basically zero overhead.  Just gotta hustle.  

This is the issue. I'm as shitty of a salesman as one could possibly be. It's really hard for me to sell myself. I feel like a liar trying to sell myself. It's not gaining a full and accurate picture. 

Also, even though I like those things, I haven't done them at a high enough level. 

If I could be a car mechanic I'd love to. I love to build and fix things. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is the issue. I'm as shitty of a salesman as one could possibly be. It's really hard for me to sell myself. I feel like a liar trying to sell myself. It's not gaining a full and accurate picture. 

Ever thought about going to a place like Robert Half and seeing if they can place you into a job? It's free to you and the burden would be on them.

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2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Ever thought about going to a place like Robert Half and seeing if they can place you into a job? It's free to you and the burden would be on them.

I've gone to search firms. The won't take me because of my shoddy work history and lack of experience.

I've exhausted pretty much every avenue known to man. 

Even when I've been ok at selling myself, I haven't been able to get an opportunity. I'm working with a search firm for people on the spectrum out of LA. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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I will never live to work and I don't judge people who judge themselves based on their jobs and dedicate their lives to them, but I'll never understand it.

I don't hate my job, and I'm humbly good at it, but if I never had to work another day in my life I wouldnt.

We live one life and have a finite amount of hours on this earth... no ones whispering into their families ears in their death bed saying "I wish I worked more."

So many things I want to experience, see and do and so little time in life to do them. I work to support those dreams and bucket list items, as well as to give my wife, and hopefully soon family, a comfortable life. 

I spent my first 8 years of my career working 60 hour weeks. You could never get me to do that every week today. I guess I paid my dues and Jack, as shitty as it is that's how you move up. If it never ends and you never progress the f your job and employer.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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7 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Ever thought about going to a place like Robert Half and seeing if they can place you into a job? It's free to you and the burden would be on them.

I would never ever use a recruiter unless you enjoy getting paid less than you're position is worth.

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11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I would never ever use a recruiter unless you enjoy getting paid less than you're position is worth.

But if you can't find and/or hold a job for the life of you, $8/hour is better than $0.

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1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

But if you can't find and/or hold a job for the life of you, $8/hour is better than $0.

Everybody has to start at the bottom and work their way up. If you think the stories about the minor players are bad, try being the athletic trainer who has to take care of them. Having to work in the winter Mexican leagues just to move up in the profession. There is no where to go but up.

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9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is the issue. I'm as shitty of a salesman as one could possibly be. It's really hard for me to sell myself. I feel like a liar trying to sell myself. It's not gaining a full and accurate picture. 

Also, even though I like those things, I haven't done them at a high enough level. 

If I could be a car mechanic I'd love to. I love to build and fix things. 

Are you good at those things or aren't you? If you are, then what are you lying about? Selling yourself is easy, man. Take all of your arrogance that I rag on you about that, keep that, and ditch all of the self-bashing and mentions of autism/work history/whatever. If you're really good at it, take Jerksticks' advice and tell the world and find the independence you seek! There's no dishonesty in that.

This isn't a bad take. It's just a sad take. You can do more than you give yourself credit for. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and go do it, already.

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