Hahn Confirms: Ventura back for 2016

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Yikes, three guys who cant exactly stay healthy, all of them to be 30 or older next year. No thanks

This team has a ton of holes. They'd at least provide some decent bats in the lineup.

[caulfield12]

Let's not forget all the damage done to pitchers (except for saving Robertson against the Yankees) by Avi as well.

 

One of the reasons war and fip diverged so much from era this year. Not that the Royals could have turned Shark into a Cy Young contender.

 

Teams like the As and Giants are just much better maximizing their offense through creative platooning. And yeah, Keppinger and Bonifacio and Beckham sucking didn't help provide Ventura as many options. Leury Garcia, either. And then they were't ready to cut down Avi's playing time in a development year, so many factors in play.

[Balta1701]

Let's not forget all the damage done to pitchers (except for saving Robertson against the Yankees) by Avi as well.

 

One of the reasons war and fip diverged so much from era this year. Not that the Royals could have turned Shark into a Cy Young contender.

 

Teams like the As and Giants are just much better maximizing their offense through creative platooning. And yeah, Keppinger and Bonifacio and Beckham sucking didn't help provide Ventura as many options. Leury Garcia, either. And then they were't ready to cut down Avi's playing time in a development year, so many factors in play.

This wasn't a development year! We spent the whole offseason saying we were going to be there at the end of the season. We said that on the day of the trade deadline!

[caulfield12]

This wasn't a development year! We spent the whole offseason saying we were going to be there at the end of the season. We said that on the day of the trade deadline!

 

The irony is that Yost would have been fired and Moore in hot water as far as keeping his job if KC lost that wild card.

 

He definitely would have been gone with no playoff appearance.

 

Meanwhile, the White Sox fans are expected to be more loyal to KW, Hahn and JR when their leaders have accomplished far less with those past seven years than Moore, who, once again, would have been fired (possibly) had they lost the WC game. Yost was gone for sure.

 

And this for a franchise with 1/3rd the broadcast rights revenues the White Sox receive.

 

And yet zero threat of anyone in Chicago losing their job...and even then, Ventura will be sacrificed to the fans despite the fact that KW and Hahn are the main ones responsible for the product on the field.

[ChiSox59]

The irony is that Yost would have been fired and Moore in hot water as far as keeping his job if KC lost that wild card.

 

He definitely would have been gone with no playoff appearance.

 

Meanwhile, the White Sox fans are expected to be more loyal to KW, Hahn and JR when their leaders have accomplished far less with those past seven years than Moore, who, once again, would have been fired (possibly) had they lost the WC game. Yost was gone for sure.

 

And this for a franchise with 1/3rd the broadcast rights revenues the White Sox receive.

 

And yet zero threat of anyone in Chicago losing their job...and even then, Ventura will be sacrificed to the fans despite the fact that KW and Hahn are the main ones responsible for the product on the field.

 

The beginning of this post about KC is a big stretch IMO.

 

[caulfield12]

The beginning of this post about KC is a big stretch IMO.

 

You don't live in KC, do you?

 

Moore survives, but not sure that Yost does after inserting Ventura in as a reliever and it completely blowing up in his face before the 8th inning.

Edited October 17, 2015 by caulfield12

[Bigsoxhurt35]

It's not a stretch. They were in a win or get blown up mode. It was do or die for Yost and Moore.

 

I don't live in KC but I listen to sports radio for Chiefs coverage so I heard all about Moore and Yost

Edited October 17, 2015 by SouthSideSale

[GreenSox]

1) Micah was hitting .270 when he got sent down but slugging below .300, saying he was the third best hitter is a stretch. His defense was really, really bad, he needed to go down and work on it full-time. Also, Robin didn't send him down.

 

5) So Robin traded those players away? Once again I'm not sure what the complaint against Robin here is, Semien and Phegley were hardly ever available for him to use when they were here.

Micah was the 3rd best hitter when he was sent down. Melky, Eaton and other luminaries had lousy starts.

Re 5, indeed, the front office deserves blame as well. They continually chase declining veterans, as if they're an answer to anything. Heck, they even brought Beckham back, afraid to cede the utility infielder job to one of the bevy of infield prospects they had in AAA. There is a lack of creativity throughout this organization.

[LDF]

Micah was the 3rd best hitter when he was sent down. Melky, Eaton and other luminaries had lousy starts.

Re 5, indeed, the front office deserves blame as well. They continually chase declining veterans, as if they're an answer to anything. Heck, they even brought Beckham back, afraid to cede the utility infielder job to one of the bevy of infield prospects they had in AAA. There is a lack of creativity throughout this organization.

 

what i am about to post, i will answer this in a simple statement. without ranting on a recurring theme i have been spouting about.

 

ref ~ is all about the money, showing the fans they are trying to do something positive but had bat luck, and just maybe get a player who will rebound.

 

ref the rebound, hestor noesi type of success.

the other, something like adam laroche, beckham. it like a reclamation but hoping for a little credit while avoiding some criticism. a inexpensive investment and hoping that it will work.

 

just my opinion.

[OmarComing25]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb...ny-joe-girardi/

 

Interesting article, says Ventura has been average with bullpen management and was actually above-average this past season.

[southsider2k5]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb...ny-joe-girardi/

 

Interesting article, says Ventura has been average with bullpen management and was actually above-average this past season.

 

He was 8th and far above average, according to that stat. Average was 18.2% and Ventura (really Cooper) was 26.5%.

 

EDIT, only saw 2015 numbers.

[2nd_city_saint787]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb...ny-joe-girardi/

 

Interesting article, says Ventura has been average with bullpen management and was actually above-average this past season.

 

....Because the bullpen was above average. Managers are gonna look as good as their players.

[OmarComing25]

....Because the bullpen was above average. Managers are gonna look as good as their players.

I agree with you, and the article does mention this:

 

"All snark aside, though, these rankings are another reminder that the manager’s impact pales in comparison to the quality of his players".

 

But the stat does appear to try to judge managers not on the results of their decisions, but whether they made the right decision in the first place according to what the numbers say. The article also notes that the best bullpen manager in the game (Girardi) could deserve credit for the Yankees outperforming their Pythagorean record by about two games per year under his helm, which is about the impact we expect from the best managers (which is not a lot, but could be the difference between 88 wins and no playoffs and 90 wins and a playoff berth).

 

The Cardinals' bullpen was ranked 8th by WAR and 3rd by ERA in the MLB this year yet Matheny was ranked as by far the worst bullpen manager in the game.

Edited October 20, 2015 by OmarComing25

[shysocks]

Quality of the bullpen is fully controlled in this stat. It's about what each manager did with his options - whether he had his best guys pitching in the most important situations.

 

Aside from a few undeniable head-scratchers, I think bullpen usage is one of the areas Robin has definitely improved. That includes the atrocious 2014 pen, which I think he handled with about as much grace as he could have.

[Dick Allen]

....Because the bullpen was above average. Managers are gonna look as good as their players.

He also ranked high in bullpen use in 2014 when the bullpen was turble.

 

I don't agree with everything he does. No one would. But the notion that every White Sox message board has that Ventura basically doesn't know the first thing about baseball is obnoxious. He knows more than any poster on these sites.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Dick Allen

[MindGame2004]

The players support Ventura publicly. For whatever that is worth.

 

Seems like healthy support. They don't go out of their way to pledge their support, but it seems genuine and not cliché filled sound bytes for the media.

 

 

 

[bmags]

Quality of the bullpen is fully controlled in this stat. It's about what each manager did with his options - whether he had his best guys pitching in the most important situations.

 

Aside from a few undeniable head-scratchers, I think bullpen usage is one of the areas Robin has definitely improved. That includes the atrocious 2014 pen, which I think he handled with about as much grace as he could have.

 

I agree. Honestly in game I don't really think Robin is bad (aside from challenges).

 

But the baseball IQ his team shows is really bothersome to me. I think part of this may be the skills our organizatio is departing in the minors, but the inability to steal with fast players, run players down, not have your 1b constantly risking outs for great plays, etc etc. It just wears you down. They just come across as so stupid.

[royoung]

Dodgers lose in a game 5 of the NLDS and then can Mattingly while Sox announce Ventura back after second consecutive underachieving season...

[OmarComing25]

Dodgers lose in a game 5 of the NLDS and then can Mattingly while Sox announce Ventura back after second consecutive underachieving season...

Was 2014 really an underachieving season? We had just lost 99 games the year before and didn't know what to expect from Abreu and Eaton, and with the rotation we were running out there it was pretty clear it was a rebuilding year.

[royoung]

Was 2014 really an underachieving season? We had just lost 99 games the year before and didn't know what to expect from Abreu and Eaton, and with the rotation we were running out there it was pretty clear it was a rebuilding year.

 

OK so three straight years? 2012 was the last time I remember feeling good about what Ventura was doing.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Dodgers lose in a game 5 of the NLDS and then can Mattingly while Sox announce Ventura back after second consecutive underachieving season...

They're also trying to win it all. They can't get over the hump. Different teams drastically different situations even though I agree.

[Vance Law]

OK so three straight years? 2012 was the last time I remember feeling good about what Ventura was doing.

 

Ventura wasn't ever doing anything. The players do and don't do things. The manager doesn't matter.