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I stated what I thought was happening, but you didn't believe the reports and then tried to turn it into a "both sides" thing. And again, you are just making up things that no one is actually saying. I am talking about reports and news stories here, and you keep going off into the weeds.

So fucking true. The fact these guys aren’t even talking is embarrassing.

I would imagine that now, 5 months after the trade, 3 months after the season ended, that a few posters here including SS2K5 have realized that Kimbrel didn't work out.

Perfect fit, TLR doesn’t shift at all.

Yes...I see. You have more faith in the press than I do. Union negotiations are a "two sides" thing whether you want to believe it or not.

Do you seriously not understand the point I am making? Why don't you try stating what YOU think is going on with the talks instead of implying others just don't understand? You and others with your point of view simply come off as intolerant of other people's views. I get that you think the players are 100% going to stand together and take away all the money that the evil owners have. My view is the players will make some modest gains after a few months of posturing and the fans will pay for whatever those gains end up being. The art of negotiations is to let both sides claim some victory and admit to not getting everything we hoped for. My prediction is this will take another 6-8 weeks and end with the words like I just indicated. If you disagree...state what you think will be the outcome and we will see who is correct in their point of view.

Sounds like typical union/management negotiations to me. Both sides will ask for outrageous things and ultimately settle claiming they gave up more than they intended. At this point, I would say very expected responses on both sides.

Good for him. Get the benefit of being a one-franchise guy, being in a spot where hanging around for a few more years wasn’t going to make a meaningful difference on how people perceived your numbers, and being able to be in a financial position where a few extra years of retirement was gonna be worth more than a few extra years of earning.

(1) They ARE talking. (2) This was never, ever going to be quick. It’s almost literally a staring contest. For either side to concede quickly would be for that side to let its constituents down. The broad strokes of dividing this money have been settled for decades; there’s nothing on the table that can be mutually beneficial, they both want as much of the same pile of money as they can get. If there is a pause in daily communication, it is intentional and is serving the same purpose as daily communication. Silence is a message, and that’s why silence is being reported to you. (3) If it’s boring, remember that it’s labor negotiations, not entertainment. It would be surprising if it wasn’t boring. Ask yourself why you expect anything else. (4) Remember that ALL public messaging released by either party, either directly or through their respective media cronies, ALL OF IT, is PR that is meant to sway public opinion in order to apply pressure. There is literally zero reason for any of this to leave closed doors otherwise. In fact, everything leaked carries some level of risk, and is only very carefully deployed. If you feel emotionally moved by a talking point, recognize that one entity or the other is trying to use you and it’s working. (5) If all of this starts to feel silly, and like something you shouldn’t feel like you have business following or feeling involved in, you’re getting closer to an important truth. The writers will claw their eyes out because they have to, you do not.

Seems like a total misunderstanding to me. The commish said anytime, any place, so this can't be true.

And I think Schefter quite frankly is a big reason why. He is sending updates to his 9 million followers on who are making the biggest donations. I feel like in a weird way it's almost like a competition now which is a good thing if it means more donations.

JR will not be involved in the next tanking. We are talking about future events obviously.

Show me where that's right. Neither of us knows what has been said or for that matter agreed upon. For baseball's sake, I do hope they can agree on a minimum payroll of let's say 100 million. I also hope some form of deterrent to discourage tanking would also be good. Add the universal DH and that would be the end of this for me. In my opinion, JR would agree to all of that and it wouldn't affect him at all. He already adheres to all of that. I think those things could be given without JR needing to raise prices, etc. If that isn't enough this lockout will last a long, long time.

@hi8is, say it. Say the thing

So you admit the owners have made proposals. Enough said.

This isn't close to acurate.

You do realize the difference between 2013 and 2015 is the same as 2018 and 2020, right? It's 2. And the Sox sent Nicky down for the same reason while having a super massive black hole at second, then called him up the day after the Super 2 deadline passed.

Apparently McNeil was refusing the defensive shifts being ordered from the dugout. Lindor fought him in the tunnel over that. No thanks. Personally, I'm curious what it would take to get Gavin Lux.

34 years old, $103 million in career earnings. He should have a lot of fun the rest of his life.

Narratives getting blowed up left and right.

I did spend some time going through the stats on his huge 2021 dropoff. McNeil has an excellent K-rate, but a generally low exit velocity. He doesn't hit the ball hard, but he makes contact. Compared to 2020 his walk rate did drop off somewhat, but his K-rate didn't spike and there was basically no real drop in his exit velocity compared to 2019, and his exit velocity was higher in 2021 than in 2020. What I do see is that there's a big change in the way he's hitting in 2021. There's a big dropoff in him pulling the ball and a big increase in him going the other way. There's a drop in hard contact and an increase in medium and soft contact. There was a career high in ground ball rate. His BABIP went from being .340 in his first 3 seasons to .280 in 2021 - was that bad luck, or was that the poor quality of his contact? It's a little hard to believe his BABIP stayed above .330 all 3 of his first 3 years and 1000 PAs by luck. Perhaps a little bit unlucky in 2021, but the dropoff in BABIP fits with the dropoff in his contact quality. He also went from a 15% HR/FB rate in 2019 to a 6.5% rate in 2021 - but its hard to see a high HR rate as sustainable with his generally fairly weak contact. One thing that does stand out, going along with the drop in pulling the ball, increase in groundball rate, and drop in HR rate, is that his launch angle has noticeably dropped. Now here's one final problem - since Statcast started recording, the White Sox have had as low of a launch angle as any team in the league, bottom 5 in the league 6 times and bottom 10 in the other season. So, you've got a guy struggling badly in 2021 when he's going the other way, hitting the ball on the ground, and not elevating like he did beforehand. For whatever reason, the White Sox are really bad at launch angle, so if a low launch angle and not pulling the ball are big parts of why he was terrible in 2021, do we think the White Sox can fix that? Or is this a guy who is a particularly bad fit for the White Sox since his success was associated with a higher launch angle and that's a weak spot for the White Sox?

You adore ME? I'm touched and flattered, even though we've never met in person, and TBH, I don't swing that way. Never change. That said, given that I'VE been a SOX fan for far longer than any of the mouthbreathers in the FO have been with the SOX, I'm fully capable of having more than one thought at the same time. MANY of us can, in that we can "adore" the team we grew up watching, AND HATE the imbecility of the FO. It really ain't that hard to do, TBH. 1. Hey, its not a "charade," as in calling it an 'act of falsehood' on my part. I TRULY HATE the stupid shit the FO does. I TRULY believe that they're either too stupid, too weak, or just lying to you when they claimed a "multiple championships" window. So it isn't "an act," so much as I TRULY believe that I've fired more competent workers than they. I TRULY believe that if those clowns worked for a competent org, that KW and RH would be lucky to have a fucking mop job for the Rays or dodgers, for example. 2. I'm glad we agree on this part. Truly, an individual RP does not provide enough WAR to lift or to sink a team that was SO MUCH more talented than Cleveland or Minnesota. And so, for far less cash than they squandered on Kimbrel, they could have signed two ~0-1 WAR RP tokens to hold Kopech and Crochet down long enough to extend their controllable years. And as we've already discussed, the SOX's BP had the 3rd most fWAR when they acquired Kimbrel; him being added here hurt more than it helped. 3. Agreed. Since last offseason, they've traded the mid and long term for the sugar high of the short term. And posters that try to harken back to the "multiple championships" lie are stuck in 2019-era thinking. The "multiple championships" window is dead and gone. I simply pray that we can enjoy ONE ring before this group of players is split up via FA, OR Abreu/Grandal/Hendriks/Lynn get their abilities taken away by Father Time. 4. I'll disagree with you on Vaughn, and give those mouthbreathers a pass on keeping him here in 2021. There simply weren't a whole lot of other options to choose from, IMO. That said, in 2022, either Vaughn better learn how to hit RHP, OR this org better have the balls to send his ass down, if he continues to struggle v. RHP. Keeping Vaughn here for 2022 in a part time role while he struggles vs RHP further shortens this window, and harms HIS trade value.

SOX fans need to let this one go. They LIED to you when they claimed they were going for "multiple championships," unless you buy that lying lawering bullshit artist Rick Hahn. When they moronically failed to get the year of control back on Kopech, they shortened the window. When they stupidly failed to start stretching out Crochet, they shortened the window. And when they fucking added an old, expensive closer in decline to the BP w/the 3rd most FWAR, while giving up 2 league minimum pieces, they shortened the window. I recommend that posters make peace with the reality that this window is closing once TA and Giolito leave via FA. It might close earlier, if Father Time comes to take away Grandals bat speed, or Hendriks fastballs, or if Lynn's obesity starts his inevitable decline sooner than expected. At the same time, there is exactly Jack and Shit in the MiLB system to help keep this window open. So again, make peace with having to trade away MLB pieces, if this org wants to make significant trades to augment the 26 man roster. Carry on...