SoCalChiSox

I think if we can get 2 good SPs out of the young group (including Kopech and Cease as well as the younger group that isn't here yet) by 2023, there will be basically no money on the books for SP in 2024 (assuming Keuchels option isn't triggered) so even if Giolito is priced out of our range we could probably afford 1 good FA SP plus one ok SP at that point. Obviously no one can really have 5 good SPs but 3 good ones and 1 OK/middling SP is still prolly good enough to keep the window going.

This is also a good reason to keep as many of Crochet/Kelley/Vera/Dahlquist/Thompson etc as possible. If Giolito will soon become essentially unsignable because the old man dragged his feet too long we need to keep those young arms so hopefully at least a few of them can turn into viable SPers in MLB as replacing Giolito (again without spending money) will be a huge priority.

Well played

Almost no one here would want to keep Madrigal if it came down to either him or Vaughn in a trade.

This is almost certainly what it is. If you remember I think Ozuna's agent used the White Sox and Hector last year in a similar way. Incidentally, if they trade for Burnes, who i assume is slated to make like 500k, instead of the roughly 8m they allegedly budgeted for SP we could use that money to sign Cruz, although it would be pretty much impossible to get Cruz and La Stella for 14.5m combined and we would still need La Stella at 2B if Madrigal is part of the trade package.

Actually Madrigal Heuer Stiever Thompson would have been better than I thought (better from our perspective) , certainly you can see RHs reluctance there to give up Kelley which is good. MIL had to know there was no way we would agree to Crochet in place of Stiever. I dunno who the OFer we were targeting was but maybe they can just drop that part if it would help sweeten the original deal for MIL given Cespedes and also Colas may be on the way soon.

Problem they already lost Q on the cheap while being strung along by MIL and now RH could get overriden again by JR and his boy, this time with truly catastrophic consequences.

Or MIL is just trying to squeeze us for more at the last second by playing divide and conquer knowing the owner and manager have hijacked control from the FO and are willing to sacrifice the long term for the short term, so they figure they might as well try to benefit from that.

Yeah I just saw the latest note from one of the foodies. From what I can tell, it seems they broke down and finally said OK to including Kelley thinking MIL would say OK but now MIL is trying to push for one of the big three as well and the FO is drawing the line there and saying no, so there's a standoff.

Vaughn plus Madrigal, Heuer, Kelley would be absolutely horrendous. Just take Richards and keep all the talent. Vaughn should be totally off limits

Yeah....Kelley hurts and so does Heuer but it seems Heuer was gone in one deal or another as they wanted to sell high. Madrigal going is certainly far more palatable than Vaughn/Kopech/Crochet and probably was a prerequisite to La Stella signing on the dotted line. Narvaez is meh....I actually would prefer giving Zack Collins a chance to back up Grandal and get 40 games in but TLR prolly wants a vet.

Agreed or just keep them for the second part of the window. Just because JR is unwilling to pay money and both he and TLR have no incentive to care about the long term doesn't mean we deserve to have our window slashed in half.

There was the suggestion (not by Jimmy but rather I think maybe Harold) that Kelley and Madrigal was not going to be enough and so there would be other headliners so I am really concerned about that. I get La Stella isn't gonna come if Madrigal is still there, but I'd say I wish they took Q at 1/8 because even Kelley is probably going to be a painful loss down the road.

Jimmy, whats the damage? Whats the compensation going to MIL? Is Vaughn/Kopech involved?

I will be royally pissed if Kopech is moved on this trade. Harold seemed to be implying he would. I sure hope not. Man Q was available for real cheap without destroying what is needed for the second part of the window. This is so dumb. Don't trade Kopech or Vaughn or Crochet

You know if they want they could squeeze both Brantley and La Stella in there if they traded for Burnes. If Brantley really ends up having to settle for 2/24. Between that and say 1/7 for La Stella, if they only have to pay Burnes like 500k....thats 19.5 added, but if ReyLo is getting moved plus Madrigal, Heuer from the roster you can shave about 3m off of it (plus ofcourse prospects but there are no monetary savings there), that's 16.5 which is pretty damn close enough.

What about 2B?

How would that benefit MIL? I'm confused.

Maybe we need to include a third team to send Madrigal too so they can send MIL something they want since they don't need 2B. I really don't want to give up Kopech or Vaughn. From C*shek's reaction something could very well be going down.

Harold is saying it will take even more than Madrigal and Kelley. That already is alot. If he's suggesting Kopech or Vaughn too that would be horrific.

This makes me very nervous because major assets would have to be going the other way and im worried about Kelley.

Ahh i see....I bet he is waiting to see then whether Madrigal is moved in a trade.

Whats taking so long on the La Stella front? TLR is pushing hard for him so I thought they would have signed him by now.

This would be ideal but it seems unlikely La Stella would accept 5 and Q would accept 8. 7 and 10 is more likely which by itself would be 2m over budget and even that would not address backup C either assuming TLR is not a fan of Collins.

Yes that would be ideal. I think they are trying to wait Q out right now to see if he accepts their price but if push comes to shove they may need to move ReyLo to get that 2m off the books to make the math work for both Q and La Stella.