Wisebri224

So let's get back to what type of pitcher we honestly thing we could get. If what you are possibly working with is Madrigal, Steiver, Thompson, Heuer, Collins, etc. Throw out a couple names of pitchers that might be a possibility. Sonny Gray? They have Moustakas though. Woodruff? Price would be higher or take many from that list and maybe Kelley? Musgrove? That could happen. Marco Gonzales? Solid if not spectacular. Just signed 4 year deal with AAV $7.5 million. That would align.

If you went that route you have him for 3 years but he's arbitration eligible for 2022 and 2023. How expensive does that get? To me that's why the Sox would target a lesser track record guy with good stuff to deal with. You are going to trade more for Castillo and he's going to cost more dollars, which doesn't seem to be the White Sox way. Anyone out there for Sonny Gray for the above package (or sub Steiver for Heuer if you like)? Less control but more MLB experience? To me it seems like there is about $20-$25 million to work with. Do you sign lesser guys or trade for cheaper guys but give up talent? In this current market I think trade is the better option

I have a hard time understanding this board at times. We want to trade our B and C level pieces for solid starting MLB pitchers. Plesac had a 10/1 K/BB ratio last year and is doing this at the MLB level, not AA. The Sox payroll in 2022 if we do nothing but get Hendriks this year is going to around $165 million next year and about $180 million by 2023 assuming they get a Gio extension done. If we want pitching that doesn't cost $25 million per year, we have to go the trade route. Jerry isn't going to $190-$200 million. Let's say Cishek is right about the price. You sign LaStella for 2/14 to replace Madrigal. You still have a bullpen with 6 solid relievers and 4 starters that all averaged over 6 innings per start. You have Cease and Kopech for #5 starter. If they both work out you have pieces to trade for bats. Otherwise, if you don't want to trade anyone in your top 6-7, would you rather spend on Hendriks and Hand, have 3 good SP, and do 5 innings and bullpen two out of every 5 starts? I think both work, but you just have to make a decision (well Rick and Jerry do) on what works for them, but this pipe dream that you are getting Plesac with 5 years of control for pennies on the dollar is laughable at best. Personally I consider that deal knowing that the $7 million on LaStella and whatever you spend on one more reliever to replace Heuer is going to be less than you would spend on the open market for a FA SP in his 30's on the downside of his career. I could be nuts. Wouldn't be the first time, but it makes sense to me. Let the beatdown of my ideas begin:)

Lamet isn’t really questionable. Paddack has shown some MLB success as well

While I’m with you in most here I will push back a little at LF. Are you telling me Vaughn is now in the minors til 23 with no spot? Jose isn’t going anywhere and Vaughn is 1B or DH. Do we need a guy who can play some LF on a short deal? Fine but not a huge concern.

DO I think they should consider higher priced players? Sure. How did that work out on the other side of town? Yep, they won one, but Heyward, Darvish, Lester, and you can go on with all the big money Theo spent and got what? A team that made the World Series once. I don;t get why everyone wants to crap the bed that we aren't paying $25 million plus for a pitcher that has a career ERA near 4 yet gripes about getting a pitcher that has seemed to get better with age and has a career ERA that is a half point lower and has won a WS ring. Pay Springer Bryce Harper money on a per year contract? Maybe but isn't it better to spend that money on pitching? And after just completing a 60 game season in which we didn't get to see the kids pitch. I think the Lynn trade is smart baseball, not cheap. You sign Lynn to a short 2 year extension at 10-15 million per. If Crochet, Kopech, Cease, or any of the others come through you have cash. If not, that's where you spend. You don't know that yet. Is it purely being cheap? Possibly, but I think it's more of a win now but still see what may be this year before all of a sudden you spend and then go, "Oops, shouldn't have spent there."

If this is the price nevermind....... https://twitter.com/PortillosHambu1/status/1335361750821203973?s=20

Agreed. I wouldn't have an issue with that as long as it wasn't Vaughn AND Kopech or Crochet

So you feel that we can find another TOR starter without giving up one of the Big 3? I'm all for Lynn on his short deal if that gives us one more year to see what we have in our youngsters, but I just don;t know where this starter is going to come from unless we just get a #3-4 guy and hope to outslug people. In the playoffs most of the time pitching wins

I agree with #1, but taking on another contract may make #2 much more palatable. Also, Marquez WHIP is much better at this point in his career which can help translate. The other two guys had some AWFUL years that their whips were over 1.5. Last 3 years Marquez is about at 3.58 ERA. Don't need him better with this lineup. The Rays are super smart and aren't taking less than one or two of our big 3 for Snell. I wouldn't do that. I'd try Lynn again for a year to see what we have before I would do Snell.

I still don't get the Springer love. It wasn't our bats that put us out last year, it was pitching after our top 2 guys. Pitching wins in the end. I don't think we'll break the bank for Bauer but if taking on a contract like Charlie Blackmon to get Marquez here with 1 piece and some lesser prospects works, then let's do it. Madrigal + (not the BIG 3) for Marquez, Blackmon. $30 mil per year gets you a lefty bat that plays OF and a TOR starter under control until 2024 instead of a RF that costs $25 mil per and then we have to bargain basement shop for SP or give up the farm.

I honestly don't get why we would trade 2-3 top prospects for Snell IF (big IF) you could get Marquez and his control through 2024 if you give some decent prospects along with Madrigal and take on Blackmon's contract. You are getting a left RF bat that hits much better than Mazara and a TOR starter for about $30 million per. Keep big prospects. You could do worse than Blackmon as a platoon even. I don't get giving up the barn for a pitcher or paying Springer $25 million per and then bargain basement shopping for SP.

The issue here is how do you trade for a TOR starter without moving one of those guys? This isn't a video game:). Either Jerry has to spend money (eat bad contracts to get good players), we bargain basement shop, or we move prospects. I am a fan of going after Lynn because of the short contract. It gives you a chance to see if the kids pan out for one more year before you decide if you need to pay big bucks for one more starter.

True but at a point we need to realize that people being tested 2-3 times and counting their positives as 3 separate cases increases numbers. We also need to realize the survival rate for people that get COVID under the age of 65 is 99.994%. I think business owners will start to realize this as well as start getting pushy. Like I said, 25% is a start. Not 100% but having no fans at this point doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but to each their own:)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mlb-owners-say-they-could-lose-4-billion-even-if-games-are-played-does-that-math-add-up/ Owners would MAKE less, but still MAKE money according to this?????? I see no chance of zero park revenue for this year. Maybe only 25% capacity, but fans, yeah.

Is this another one of those situations where if you can do a 3/$45 or 4/$56 (and I'm wondering of the market is bottoming a bit out instead of heating up for Ozuna/Castellanos), you do it, and try to flip Mazara or just keep everyone and if some of our kids start hitting now you have pitcher trade chips. If Castellanos goes nuts and keeps the trajectory going up into a .275/.350 guy with 25-30 HER and 45-50 doubles, I'm ok with him blocking people. If it's a little less you move him. Keep signing guys Ricky!

I'm not even sure if it's the big name OF next year. Maybe this year we find out Mazara is a breakout. Maybe one of our minor league OF gets rolling. It gives us flexibility to throw that bigger money at EITHER an OF or another SP if all of this "maybe" pitching doesn't work out because tat could happen. To me, it seems as though pitching seems to win most years, so keeping money available for that is always good.

I agree with this. EE gives us a great lineup for year 1 of “we have arrived”. Have the extra flexibility for the trade deadline or next offseason when we know what we have a bit more

I’d like Hernandez as a utility guy and a solid reliever. If you want to grab a bat as well ok, but I think that can be taken care of between the guys we have. If I want to get greedy I grab one more SP flier like Walker or Wood and make Reynaldo earn his spot or head to the pen

Difference here is the words actually get backed up:)

Plan A-Z here. Plan A- and nothing else. Carry on:)

Well according to our metrics, a pitcher of Miley's quality is only worth 2 for $8M. LOL. I seriously don't know what everyone is wanting and how cheap it has to be. Is Plan B as specific as Plan A was and Good 'ol Rick is gonna wait for just the perfect situation or just look in March and say "oops, I froze"? Again, these guys are going for basically pennies on the dollar at this point.

Same Sox talk. Next year we will spend big. Yep. As mentioned by Orlando, next they will have to extend their own players and the money will have been spent.

They won’t though. If you wouldn’t pay for Bum at 85, you aren’t getting the other two. I would rather have had Bum at 5/85 than Price at 3/55 and give up prospects. We are going dumpster diving again. Carry on. At times I wonder why we bother talking until February when the clearance rack opens up