Look at Ray Ray Run

They signed him for four million dollars. Don't think Simmons was signed as a starter here.

Still salty about that one, eh Baron? I didn't even bring Kimbrel up today, initially.

Happy to admit if I'm wrong here. Maybe Rick shoves this one. I've been critical of things that have worked out before and would be happy to be wrong again.

I'd be shocked if someone didn't surprise us in the Central this year. Baseball is funny. I don't expect the Sox to win the division by 10 games but I hope I'm wrong.

No, this was the excuse provided by people like you to justify the incompetence of a front office that has absolutely not earned the benefit of the doubt. And you keep citing hindsight, when plenty of people laid this out the minute the Sox didn't extend the QO based on OTHER cases of historical data that showed this was a poor decision. The problem with most of your takes is that you always defer to what you deem to be the "experts," but reality is, baseball isn't a STEM field... physics/medicine. While there is certainly proprietary data and information, and obviously outsiders aren't having conversations within league circles, people can evaluate sports as outsiders based on actuals which provide as much of an unbias viewpoint as you'll find. Signings and valuations are public information. Guys within the circles could be deceived by conversations that were meant to deceive them. You give credit to these GM's as if they are baseball savants, when history tells us that is not always the case, and plenty of organizations are behind the times and have not kept pace with the games changes and trajectory. I could have told you what Manny Machado was going to require to sign, yet the White Sox were blown away. Same goes for other signings the Sox were "caught off guard" about. Hell, the Sox thought FA wouldn't happen until after the CBA when plenty of outsiders expected a flurry of moves before the clock. Rick is a very smart man, but he's not some unquestioned baseball savant with a track record unworthy of critique.

I'm happy to admit if I'm wrong on this, but I don't see the Sox getting anything but some minor league organizational filler if they don't eat money. If they eat money, it would have just been better to spend that money elsewhere on a MLB caliber player than getting some lotto ticket by paying some salary.

I'm a huge Gausman stan, but I wish he signed somewhere else because the East may give him fits.

Listen, I'm with you on maximizing appearances. But this team has not built the depth at the minor league level to sustain this beyond their current core of players, and that core is aging faster than most understand. This it the peak time for this team. They need to shove shove shove imo.

Except plenty of people said this was a dumb decision the second they made it. That's not hindsight.

You're entrusting the same organization that didn't realize Carlos Rodon's value league wide to determine that Kimbrel was worth 16 million + Trade pieces. I said at the time picking up the Kimbrel option was bad management. It was hanging onto a bad decision instead of cutting ties with it. Kimbrel isn't netting the Sox anything of value. Picking up his option was more bad decision making on MLB talent value by the White Sox front office.

While it's football, I look at the Rams and think most teams should operate that way. The Sox haven't exactly built up minor league depth behind their young core. Their window is pretty reliant on a set group of guys continuing to grow and perform for the limited time they have left here. None of that is really guaranteed. I'd be fine with extending a window if you had more talent in the wings as insurance for some guys just never getting to their ceilings, or regressing earlier than expected. That type of thing always happens. The Sox are honestly already in year 3 of their contention window. If it went 5 years that would be pretty good luck, 6 and you're really pushing it. Which means this year and next year are the prime time to really go for it all. It's about winning titles when you break it down for rebuilds. Not about raising a bunch of central title championships.

I look at things that actually happened. You look at some made up scenario that has no supporting evidence.

I just don't see how it's a bad thing to move Dallas Keuchel out of the rotation. He doesn't really belong there.

It's really really difficult to justify picking up Craig Kimbrel's option for 16 million but not offering Rodon 1 year at 18 million. Rodon will very likely, even with injury risk, cover more innings than Kimbrel in 2022. Kimbrel would not get an offer anywhere near the offer Rodon got in FA. This to me is a process issue. I can respect not wanting to come into the season with the risk of Rodon's health given that Keuchel is bad and Kopech can only throw about 120-140 innings. I completely understand the thought process there. It's just difficult to swallow the Kimbrel and Rodon decision when put side by side, and accounting for the draft pick compensation. It just shows very poor valuation skills by the FO who is, sadly, kind of notorious for that.

Why? Because they didn't offer him the QO because they thought it was too much and that he would accept since he wouldn't get more on the open market. They did him a solid? Jesus Christ. You offer the QO based on what his value is league wide, not based on what you value him at personally. Are you being intentionally dense?

Kikuchi is terrible. Another one of those guys I see floated around here that I have no idea why Sox fans want anything to do with.

I just want them to acquire good MLB players. I don't need a Conforto or etc. I just need them to invest in the product, and shove their chips into the middle. Who knows how long the window will be here. Who knows how long guys will be healthy or performing well. Make it happen now because next year isn't guaranteed.

There certainly are a couple of people who appear to be upset the Sox didn't resign Carlos, but I think the majority of people are upset they whiffed on his value and didn't offer him a QO costing them a 2nd round pick* (clarifying this from a previous post where I said 1st).

lol the FO was literally wrong about his value already.

That was a good one too. The Sox FO knows more about his injuries than anyone else and that's why they didn't sign him. Fast forward.... Carlos is the first guy signing after the CBA finalizes because he was a hot commodity that multiple teams were after. He's a genius for signing in San Fran too; guy might be able to get another deal in two years. That ballpark and organization is a pitchers dream.

I'm not angry the Sox didn't re-sign Carlos, although I fully expect him to be completely dominant in San Fran who maximizes pitchers better than maybe any organization in the game right now. If Carlos stays healthy and throws 180 innings, he finishes top 3 in the NL Cy Young race. I'm angry that the Sox didn't realize that Carlos Rodon was clearly worth more than 1 year 18 million and would NOT accept a QO under any circumstances. It's just inexcusable to be that out of touch with how the rest of the league values players.

Even with the FA/Trade replacement, they should have offered him a QO. He was NEVER accepting a QO for so many reasons. The CBA, even if a disaster, was going to be some kind of improvement for players, so salaries would be slightly better. Rodon was a lefty starter with elite stuff who dominated baseball for 2+ months. Someone was going to gamble on that. No matter what they do the rest of the way, the QO was a no brainer. It was a FREE first round pick. The Sox just don't know what MLB guys are worth, which is why they sell the farm for bums like Kimbrel.

it's honestly laughable that they didn't want him back for 1/18. Said it then and say it again. This team isn't willing to do what it takes to play with the big boys and their understanding of MLB players values is still piss poor.

Although his market may have been a little less with the QO, still gotta figure he gets 2 years 36ish million even with a QO. I remember many here saying "Hahn and the Sox no more about the market than you!" Giving this FO the benefit of the doubt is never a good idea.

Guys numbers in San Fran could be stupid good.