greg775

Smart fans IMO realize LaRussa isn't sabatoging anything. As a fan my problems with him are thus: I don't like having a different lineup every day; I agree that sucks. ... I don't like him screwing up Yermin's career last year basically by calling him out; I don't like walking any hitter with a 1-2 count. Problems I don't have with him: Bullpen usage (those pitchers stink with the exception of closer); pitching decisions (the pitching coach probably makes most of the calls); the injuries (bad trainers? bad luck?) and the team's hitting (horrible players to go with a few MLB caliber hitters). I'd give Tony a D for this year; B plus or A minus for entire career. Prolly A- for the 3 titles. He's not the devil folks

I think a fan can commit a classless act but not be in the category of "classless fan." It would take more than that. I think the act of chanting something against your own team is classless no matter what fanbase is doing it. Sox fans can still be smart and despise Tony IMO. They've just fallen for the age old cliche that has been around forever and will forever be in sports: "Fire the manager." ... There are many examples of coaches/managers fans think are "buffoons" like Ned Yost who were gifted an ultra talented group, won it all and made the same fans who wanted him out, shut up and cheer him wildly at the parade. ... My summary of how I feel about Sox fans: I like them. I think they are smart fans and good fans. In this instance I think they are showing a lack of class. I can'r really think of a guy they've singled out for booing/chanting in the past. Maybe Albert Belle? Maybe George Bell for complaining about his role in the gawddarn playoffs. Maybe Bevington, I dont recall. Maybe Erstad. Those were probably just boos, not chants.

I think chanting "Fire Tony" shows a lack of class. It's one example. I am not calling the fans classless as a group. Sox fans are smart southsiders who are no nonsense and like a cold beer and brat. I love 'em. But to chant fire Tony shows a lack of class IMO. Any time you turn on your own I think it reflects poorly on the crowd. Creating the na na chant in the 70s for the southside Hit Men and have it last til now shows the goodness of the fanbase.

I'm kind of on the same page here as Green Line. Some of us are big picture fans. And I would suggest to all that another manager might have us with two more wins, two less losses but that's about it. My take anyway.

Why is it that all my opinions are wrong and yours and some other mods are always right? Nothing is absolute and my takes deserve consideration like anybody else's. We act like we're talking about Bevington here. I gave LaRussa a grade of D which is a pretty low grade. I also point out many many many reasons the team blows. So many other fans on here are putting too much blame on one reason for the team sucking. Yes Tony appears to deserve a grade of D right now. But for his career he's an A-minus (Hall of Fame, three titles). He's capable of righting the ship IMO.

I've actually had a nice discussion going with at least two posters who wrote out thoughtful responses to greg's assertion that Tony is not the devil.

I get frustrated that people follow the cliches and don't think things out in sports and politics too. The evidence is that managers don't make a huge difference for one. For two, Tony has been given a roster decimated by injuries and with starters unable to go more than five and a horrific bullpen and a lineup that includes 3-4 AAA players on a given night. How can he expect to be over .500 with that? I will say u can second guess a lot of crap he does but it's the same for all managers/coaches. A manager really can't win. If his team wins he gets no credit; the players do. If he loses you can ALWAYS point to stuff the manager did that went wrong. Sox fans are smart. In my opinion a smart fan looks at this roster and laughs, doesn't blame the manager. Defense (awful). Hitting (awful). Pitching: Pathetic except several good five inning starts. The team stinks. I'd give Tony a D this season so far. I'd give the team a D as well.

Felonies don't get prosecuted anymore; haven't heard anything about Tony being racist. I am doubting that's the case. Serious charges by you vs. Tony here. I am against those who get DUI's. Do I have friends who have gotten them? Yes. Many. I might be disappointed in them but didn't dump them as friends.

Sox should have never stooped so low to tank. Maybe the baseball gods are getting even. Something's up with all these injuries.

Exactly. People are acting as if Tony is Bevington. This team is decimated and poorly assembled both.

Sometimes Howard Stern callers lead to funny takes/bits by Howard. And he gets rid of them if they can't get to their point quickly as a caller. I cringe when callers are longwinded and can't spit out their points.

Not the laughingstocks. Not that far yet. This particular incident of walking a guy with a 1-2 count has been mocked though, and rightfully so. Tony (and all managers BTW) should copy Costanza and just do the opposite of what he feels is the right decision many times. BTW you could probably find a big "mistake or two" by a manager/coach in almost all losses.

I love your post cause it's why I like message boards in theory. You went through my points and responded rather than picking one thing I wrote and burying me with a one-liner. I would like to point out in your great answer here you did acknowledge agreement with me on some of my points. You actually did. So that means this LaRussa blame game is worthy of discussion not 100 percent agreement that the three-time world champ is a bum. I will say... 1.) You said " with this despicable and demented loser manager ruining this club" ... Cmon that's a bit harsh. If I said that about a certain government official I'd probably be banned. Perhaps not here but certainly kicked off social media. I wouldn't call Tony "despicable and demended loser." 2.) You agreed with me some. 3.) You said "Yes the bullpen sucks, but TLR has repeatedly blown games with his wrong choices of pitchers." Cmon. I could go through the list of mediocre to bad relievers (certainly unreliable relievers) on this club. 4>) I can accept this post here about the hitting coach. That's kind of cliche too, to blame the hitting coach. I agree most of the Sox hitters have been awful and I wouldn't complain if they fire the hitting coach. I won't even complain if they fire Tony I just see it as sad our fans chant that crap. 5.) I think chants are kind of rude, I just do. I prefer my home crowd create a song like "na na na" which has lasted five decades. Proud of our fans for that one. 6.) You said: "Maybe the die-hard Sox fans are finally tired of this unacceptable and pathetic manager and voicing their displeasure." ... I can buy this part of the post. You don't like Tony a lot and have that right. We disagree on the chanting. I do agree prices are way out of line and fans do have the right to boo and chant. I'm surprised nobody else hates the chanting though.

I think this is all cliche ... blame the manager for everything. Look at this ballclub. It blows. The Hawk Harrelson podcast even had Hawk critical of Moncada and how he is awful. Add Moncada and Grandal's badness to that horrific bullpen, cmon, this has to do way more with Hahn than Tony. It just does. I just think our fans are better than this. Tony is likely a huge problem but not THE biggest problem.

For me ... it's dumb to chant "Fire Tony" and act all hot and bothered when the Sox could have rallied to win and everybody would rock the place with cheers. Sure the fans pay their money and can do what they want to a certain extent but cmon. Do we have to be like the fans in Major League? Hawk supports Tony BTW.

My heart won't break if Sox fire Tony. But as you point out, cmon, this bullpen blows. Sox are going to have to come up with a pitching plan in the future cause they have had some really bad bullpens.

Ugh. This saddens me our fans stooped this low. Why? To chant just that is ridiculous. Sure Tony is having a bad year, but cmon. You don't chant Fire Hahn or Sell the Team Jerry? To boo Tony like that is to imply he's the problem. Really? How bout a pathetic bullpen? How bout a lineup that most of the year has had four to five automatic outs. Whose fault is it Moncada is hitting .130 and before he got hurt today Grandal also is hitting under .200. And Harrison? It is total classless to chant that. Boos are fine, but singling out Tony IMO is very very dumb and reflects poorly on Sox fans. Did the media ask about it? Sure it's a tough question but if everybody noticed Tony and Jerry must face the music and comment on the fans chanting negative stuff about Tony. Just my take. Boos are OK (though I don't like them either) but not chants. ... And another thing. When you chant stuff like that and what if the Sox rallied to win? Then you cheer? Really makes a fan look spoiled and dumb. Boooooooo, then what if Sox get a walkoff .... Yay!!!! Stick with your team, folks.

This is why I want to innovate and have a setup of 9 or so starters. Have two starters per game pitch. Then go with a setup and closer. I've said before Sox aren't equipped right now for modern baseball. Starters going five will not cut it with this rotten bullpen. Pitch 4-6 bullpen guys a game ... no good. Now have one starter go four, another go four and we might have a fighting chance. I despise modern baseball. Oh for the days a guy could pitch 8 or so.

Sox bullpen is a huge reason this team is going nowhere. It's a very poor group of pitchers. Closer is good tho.

I can accept your post as good solid discussion. I'll ponder it some more before responding.

Ugh. Chants like that are no good. They show a lack of class. The whole stadium chanting "Fire Tony" for a .500 team with injuries and the fact he's an old guy is kind of classless. If you are kidding my bad. Just let it play out.

Nice win . Didn't see it. I have a question. Stoney in the highlight wrap on mlb was praising Grandal and Moncada. I look at the box Moncada was 1-4 with no RBI. What did he do that was so great?

Poor Sheets. From fairly hot prospect to being about done. Baseball, whether old style which some of us loved, or this new crap, remains the same. Ultimately it is a cruel game.

I dunno, Bosses make awful decisions all the time. The GM, who has no choice, can either accept the ridiculous decision of the boss and continue to make huge dollars himself for his family, or he can quit. Quitting would make the GM feel good internally for a day, but would not help him get another job anytime soon and would harm his family unless he's saved a lot of money for situations like this. ... You weigh the pros and cons and if the boss' decision angers you so much you need to get out, you look for another job but quitting IMO is not the right call.

I'll give Jason B credit. He freaked out in peppering Stoney with questions about Tony's dumb move. I wonder how the radio guys handled the call. But in this day and age of announcers backing the home team in all situations, Jason B deserves credit for freaking out about Tony's move. Stone to his credit answered Jason's questions without going off. I say "to Stone's credit," only because Stone would have made national news had he torn into Tony. Jason asked why Tony would do that and Stone had an answer of why Tony did it. Pros all around. Jason B an A-plus for having the guts to immediately question the ridiculous move; Stone an A-plus for not being a homer but also not making himself the story. Wow.