Chisoxfn

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 08:19 PM) The only problem I'd have is that if the Sox deal Contreras and Bmac they have zero options if Duque or another starter goes down. That doesn't sound like Ozzie at all, if Contreras is part of any deal, I think it would have to be one helluvah deal(s) favoring us. Thats what I'm saying. It really wouldn't make sense for the Sox to lose that option, especially considering El Duque isn't exactly a workhorse whose known for staying healthy. I can't see the Sox giving up both Contreras and Bmac unless they get something to the point that Kenny feels confident rolling the dice. You also have to figure at this point, assuming the other 4 starters stay healthy, the Sox are going to make the playoffs, so if Duque went down, sure it would hurt the Sox down the stretch, it wouldn't knock them out of playoff contention (its going to take a lot more than having a s***ty 5th starter to do that, imo) and quite frankly your 5th starter is rarely a contributing factor in the playoffs (I know Lowe kicked ass last year for the BoSox).

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 08:09 PM) If Contreras is included then I have to agree with others that there is something else in the works. Contreras+Marte+BMac amounts to WSox freeing up $6M. That's about what they would take on in Wagner & Vizquel. I don't think the Sox have the chips to make all those type of deals. However, they could get Vizquel and Eyre...that would make sense. Valido and Gio and Bmac are dealt at the deadline (plus Marte and Contreras) Sox get Burnett, Vizquel, Mota and Eyre. Maybe they move Lowell or they could keep him. I'd think any expanded deal with the Marlins would give teh Sox something else they'd want. They aren't going to give up Contreras, Bmac, and Marte all in the same deal for just Burnett thats for sure.

QUOTE(ChiSoxyGirl @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 05:06 PM) Jeez, I'd marry any guy that got tickets to take me to a Sox world Series game. Anyway, that series was before my time, even my dad doesn't remember it (he was 4). Waits for Mr. Showtime to show up

Little more rumors: Sources indicated Williams also was working on deals to bring in more bullpen help, especially if Marte is traded, and another middle infielder. The reliever will not be Philadelphia closer Billy Wagner, who was taken off the trade market because the Phillies are still in the NL East and wild-card races. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

Van Dyke has a new article in the trib. The gist is the deal is on hold for the time being. However Kenny wants to sign AJ long term and Ozzie has only very very positive things to say about AJ. The big piece of the deal is the Sox deal is centered around Marte/Bmac, however, there is talk of an expanded deal that would include Contreras. At first I kind of shutter at the thought of this. However, if the Sox are going to make a trade they would be moving Contreras to the pen. Now whose to say Contreras would make a good closer. What if the Sox got depth in Lowell and Mota (who could definately do a very good job if healthy in the pen). Or could the Sox find some other help? I don't know, but it makes sense to get a guy like Mota. The only problem I'd have is that if the Sox deal Contreras and Bmac they have zero options if Duque or another starter goes down.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 07:45 PM) If your AJB's agent, and the White Sox are offering you 3 yr 30 mil....you'd have to think the Yanks or Red Sox or another team would offer more money than that. Burnett is easily the most coveted FA on the market this offseason. I think he gets between 8 and 10 million. We shall see what happens though.

I'm glad you have people like Levine and Gammons. They hear something (and they do have contacts) and they pass it on. Doesn't mean they are going to be right, but I want to know who they are interested in (keeps me interested at least and gives you an idea of what the club is looking at, doesn't mean its going to happen).

QUOTE(AirScott @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 05:23 PM) hate to sound pessimistic, but I think those sellouts were mainly the Red Sox bandwagon, er, I mean Red Sox Nation. Remember though, huge crowds for the Detroit series as well (It was Maggs 1st time back, but that isn't why they were sellouts, imo (part of the reason, sure). Fan support is definately growing

He didn't give up a run in todays game? He pitched quite well actually. Manny got a hit off him after Duque crapped over. His velocity was fine and he did his job.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:11 PM) McCarthy having a "plus" change is news to me. He didn't have any confidence in it at the major league level, and as far as I know he learned it rather recently. That said, McCarthy is the one #1 starter prospect in the system. At 6'7" 190 and his age, I expect him to: (1) gain 30-40 pounds over the next 5 years, and gain 3-4 mph on his fastball; and (2) learn another breaking pitch such as a cut fastball to take away reliance on his straight fastball. Burnett is a #3 starter when he's on and has benefitted greatly from pitching in one of the best pitcher's parks in the league. I'm not real anxious to give up McCarthy for that, especially when signing Burnett is up in the air. Now, if you told me someone farther away from the big leagues - like Gio Gonzalez - was the man going along with Marte, I'd say giddyup, even though Gio might be a great starter someday. The plan with Bmac is to have him develop a cutter this spring. As far as the changeup goes, its a pitch that Brandon harnessed last season. He changed the grip on it and it basically formented his progress. Unfortunately, its a pitch that hasn't been called much at the major league level. He's not the one calling the pitches, but watch film of his clips in spring training and you'll see his changeup was the big thing. Stone was talking about it when he was in the booth and Coop has often talked about it being his best pitch. Is he totally confident in it yet, no, but Bmac is a very very picky pitcher who is a perfectionist and because of this it will only get better. The other issue is its not a pitch thats thrown much in Charlotte because quite frankly the place is a bandbox and its a pitch he has lost a little confidence in. That said, he's starting to regain confidence in it and thats going to be the key to him turning into a #1 or 2 starter. By the way, I agree with the rest of your post.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) While this would be good news, it is Harold Reynolds and its mostly crap that comes out of his mouth. I still say, no move would be greater for this team than Omar Vizquel. Billy Wagner would be a close 2nd (i'm talking about realistic move too...not like a Timo Perez for Roger Clemens deal).

QUOTE(danman31 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:09 PM) Yeah, I guess my question is why wouldn't they start him in AA or AAA if the concensus is that he's ready? Mainly because he's been out for a while. You basically want him to get his feet wet. Get him some confidence and some innings than move him up a few weeks at a time.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) A's did the same thing with Street last year and he should have been in the majors. We'll see Hansen in September barring major suckage. Ya, especially when you consider how bad Boston's pen is right now. Hansen has better stuff than Chief (aka Chad Cordero) who made it to the bigs in his first season drafted for the Nationals. Of course Cordero mixes his stuff with great control (his hard slider is nasty too).

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) Another guy who is available for next to nothing is Soriano of Texas. Of course you wouldn't want him playing secondbase much. But depending on Thomas' status he would make a pretty interesting DH with a lot of power and speed and strikeouts. Plus you could non tender him during the off season. I believe he is arb eligible. Its just a thought, I would prefer a LH bat. He could be a very intriguing DH. I think Soriano is someone the Sox could look at this offseason as well. He's a great athlete and is a heck of a player. Definately don't want him in the field though.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:59 PM) What about Honel and his mid 90's fastball?? It seems like Kris never had that good of a fastball but I could be wrong. No, he always had a nasty knuckle curve. I remember watching that pitch and just going holy crap is that sick. FB wise he rarely cracked the 90's. The big thing is he did have really good control. Since than its gone missing and his velocity went way down. This year he's made a lot of strides. He's kind of on the radar looking in, but still needs to find his confidence and with that his control. If he can do that he may be able to turn back into the prospect a lot of people thought he once was (still I don't know if he has the bevy of pitches to be much more than a back of the rotation guy or a quality reliever).

Most experts said Hansen was set to be a quick mover. Boston is desperate for defensive help so if he can pitch well from here on out in the minors, I could easily see them giving him a shot in September. If he pitches well I could see him on the post-season roster. On a sidenote, a lot of guys sign Major league contracts. It more puts a damper on the options. IIRC they really don't have any or something along those lines (it had some sort of effect on Willy Mo Pena not being able to get send down at least).

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) actually, I've never read BA, so I guess thats not what made my opinion. As far as overrating velocity, seems they were spot on with Jenks................ I'm not going to begin to dissect BA and velocity. BA is as good of a minor league publication as there is. They do an awesome job covering the entire minors. However....Jesse Foppert and his 99 MPH heat or Brian Miller and his easy heat (Former guy in the Sox system that topped out at 88-90). None of these guys were even close. Jenks is the real deal...I've been oogling him since he was in the Angels system. Just do a search and look how crazy I went when I found out the Sox signed him. All I can say is maybe Gio adds velocity, maybe he doesn't. I'm not knocking him on a prospect but a lot of people are over-rating him and really under-rating and to a point just blasting Brandon and quite frankly its uncalled for. He's an upper echelon pitching prospect and is what I'd dub a special pitching prospect. He's no Felix Hernandez (whose sick) but he's in that next category (frankly Felix is in a level all by himself).

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:49 PM) s***, I might as well quit FutureSox now after seeing the plethora of White Sox minor league experts here. I'm surprised that you guys know so much about these players considering you've never seen them. Damn you guys are good. Oh, I'm calling Kris Honel tomorrow to schedule an interview with him, can you guys tell me if he is good or bad? Thanks, I'm indebted to every one of you who knows more than me by being an armchair scout. I'm moody today

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:47 PM) just a general question to all posters out there. i dont know much about our minor leaguers, i mean i know pretty much all the names, and i can give you the general stats for most of em, but that dont mean i know much. how many people on here actually have seen these guys pitch/play. i know some have, because they leave near charlotte/bham/etc. but i suspect alot of people on here just make claims about minor league prospects based on like the 2 innings they saw in spring training or something of that sort, and many of their claims are unsubstantiated. for example, i know from my subscription to baseball america what gio throws, what his stats are, what he has done at each stop. but by no means can i sit here and say taht he is better or worse than bmac, since i have never seen gio pitch and couldnt even pick him out of a crowd. my gut would tell me hes worse than brandon just becuase brandon dominated at high A, but then again, brandon was 2 years older when he did that, so i could be wrong. at any rate, i have 0 idea about how much more often gio would pound the strikezone than mccarthy, and quite frankly i dont think many on here do either Personally speaking I've seen most of the guys in the system play on a few ocassions (this is the first year i'm not making a trip out to see the minor leaguers play).

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:47 PM) Low 90's and mids on occasion. And with age and growth I expect it to climb Thats what BA says, but it ain't accurate. BA hypes the hell out of velocity. He rarely dials it up. Maybe he will add some velocity with age, but I don't see where he will get it. He's not what I'd call a projectable player in terms of velocity (ie tall and lanky where you add velocity when your body fills in). As far as Bmac not helping this team, if he isn't traded, he will be the 5th starter next year. Just ask other teams who the best pitching prospect in this org is, they aren't getting all gooey over Gio, its Bmac they want. I'm sure they also want Chris Young too. Why do I rate him #1, because he's the best in my mind. He has a good FB (low 90's and climbing), a plus curve and a plus change. Aside from that he paints the zone and is very smart. He's hit a rough spot in Charlotte, but its mainly because he was rushed and well frankly other reasons that I'm not going to get into.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:43 PM) Gio does dial it up though, BUt his curve his much better than Pedro's breaking balls. Gio doesn't throw that hard. He's not consistently in the mid 90's. He's a low 90's pitcher (this is not a knock). I'm just saying that he doesn't dial it up.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) because its not better than his curve... Totally disagree. He has a very good curve, but his changeup is filthy.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:40 PM) Scouts rate velocity way too highly imo. Therefore taller guys will be rated higher because they can dial it up. I've often thought of a Pedro comparison, but his stuff isn't as good in potential. He needs to improve his fastball, but he's definitely a top tier pitching prospect. I'll agree with scouts over-rating fastballs. I care a lot more about control and the quality off their offspeed stuff. Velocity means you can get away with more, but if you can't throw strikes and keep hitters off balance (with good off-speed pitches) your gonna struggle. Gio is a very good prospect too, if he dominates WS like he did Kanny you'll me start talking about backing him more. Only thing that really worries me with him is durability. Of course I don't rate him anywhere close to Bmac. I think Bmac is bar none the best pitcher in the system.

QUOTE(Soxpranos @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:37 PM) Gio reminds me of a Left handed Pedro Martinez.. No one is giving him a fair shot due to his size.. I recall Rauch was one of the top prospects in MLB , Why cause of his size. In reality he had medicore to below average stuff. McCarthy has size, and Gio doesnt, again people tend to go with the bigger athlete that they tend to think is better, which in mnay cases they are dead wrong. Pedro just a great example, another is a guy that goes by Maddux. Pre-surgery Rauch looked like he was going to be amazing. Problem is he never regained his stuff after hurting his labrum. Pedro is nothing like Gio. Pedro is a power pitcher, Gio isn't.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) May be something insignificant, but when Ozzie came out to get the ball from Marte, there was no usual clap or slap on the butt from Ozzie. Just grabbed the ball. Thats probably cause he was ticked at Damaso, but who knows.