Chisoxfn

Squeeze it was the s***. Of course I still like the kapri suns. Those rock...still do too And button candy...that was good s*** as a kid. Don't know why either, cause usually you were eating a bunch of paper to go along with it

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 07:43 PM) But the Angels did have a great offense, and in fact they averaged 6.3 runs/game which is only slightly below the 6.4 runs/gm put up by Boston last year. I actually think we're closer to the Marlins, as we'll have to rely on dominant starting pitching and just enough timely hitting to win us games. All I'm saying is we'll benefit more by finding another good starter than having 5 closers with Buehrle/Garland/Garcia already on the staff. How many relievers did the Marlins use besides Looper (who wasn't very good), Urbina, and Chad Fox? And who thinks Ozzie won't let the starters go deep into games? It all depends, if you use 4 starters, than you better have a stronger bullpen. However, you go 3 starters than you take the risk of burning your rotation, but you probably can use less relievers cause you may get better starts (cause your using your aces more). Of course that could totally backfire. Personally, for the most part I'd plan on using 4 starters, unless the rest matched up. I'm not a big fan of guys going on less rest cause more times than not, they aren't as effective. I mean, the Angels go nowhere without their pen. There starting in the playoffs was awful and there pen had a few incidents, but they had some timely hitting and quite frankly a very lethal bullpen.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 07:43 PM) What kind of stuff did you hear? I was told that he had more zip than usual and had better command. Command has been the big thing thats bothering him, but from all intents and purposes, the big thing is he's supposedly 100%.

If hte Sox got all 3 player, to me it would be the only move they'd make. Unless of course they dealt Marte, in which case they probably would still be in the market for a reliever. However, the acquisition of Lowell would put to rest any trade talk for a new middle infielder (imo, unless the Sox have a plan on bringing some other team into the picture, like the Pads, who quite possibly would be intrigued with the idea of Lowell), and it would probably put a rest to the rotation. It be a really ballsy and risky move though cause you really don't know how it will effect the team. But right now, I think Kenny is and to an extent has to be looking at post-season right now and seeing what makes this team more likely to win in October.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) IF there is substance to this rumor, if I am KW, I am sitting in my office thinking "hmmm ... who would I rather have facing the Red Sox or Yankees or Angels in October, AJ Burnett or Jose Contreras?". The way I see it, both are the type of pitcher that can go in and shut down any team in baseball. I mean stuff wise, both are brilliant (better than anyone on the Sox staff). What the Sox have to ask is which of the two are better. Personally I lean to Burnett, especially with the drastic improvements he's made to his changeup (he's starting to control it pretty good as well). Plus Burnett is finally getting back to 100% and should get better. I also think the SOx feel he has a better chance at putting the total package together as opposed to Contreras. Thats at least the way I look at it if the deal goes down. Remember, Ozzie, Kenny, Coop and AJ are around this guy all the time (Kenny less than the others) and if they don't think he'll ever get it than this may be the time to move him and upgrade the position in there mind. Hell like I said, I actually have a sneaking suspicion that Duque is going to come out and pitch pretty well from here on out (don't ask me why either, but I heard some good things about his outing down in Charlotte).

One thing about Lowell is his numbers have gone up ever month thus far. Mota just came off the DL and fell out of love with McKeon, but when on is one of the best Righty relievers in the game and Burnett has been worse away from Florida, he still gets a ton of k's and limits the opponents to fewer than a hit per inning. I think this really hinges on how much the Sox dislike Contreras and if he's dealt, it tells you that they just don't think he'll ever figure it out. I'm not saying it will be a good move, we don't know, but if he's dealt, you can book it on the fact that Cooper, AJ, Ozzie and Kenny were just fed up with him and his pitching style. The only thing I don't like is the Sox giving up Marte in the deal. Thats what makes me cringe. I'm not as concerned with giving up prospects, especially if the rumors are true and the Sox would sign AJ long term.

I do buy into the Sox being potential front-runners for Burnett. However, I just don't see them taking on Lowell, nor do I see them moving Contreras. Than again, despite his last start, I don't think the Sox are exactly thrilled with Count.

Well if the marlins guy is right he says the Sox will be signing him to an extension for it to happen. I just don't like the idea of giving up Contreras. I do think Burnett is slightly better than Jose, but some of you have brought up some good points, mainly the fact that Contreras hasn't had heatlh issues. If its Contreras, Bmac, Anderson, and a prospect for AJB, Lowell, and Mota than I'd probably do it. Burnett's a little better, Lowell could do a lot (although I still am puzzled at this, cause frankly Sox don't need him), and well Mota would give the Sox one more very good reliever. I still would absolutely prefer to keep Contreras and move Duque if the Sox are that dead set on another pitcher. I must say though, I do think Burnett will benefit from having AJP behind the plate.

Iowa has a pretty well balanced roster. If Alford can't do it this year, he's definately gone. And if Haluska develops...they could be a big time sleeper in the Big 10 (I think Haluska is destined to become one of Iowa's better all time players).

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 05:46 PM) Very solid reasoning. The price might be high [with guys like Tracey, Jenks, Sweeney/ Young, BMac for a SP] yet those two additions would complete the sox Exactly...I'd think the Sox would be able to hold onto Young/Bmac/Jenks while losing one of Sweeney/Anderson, than a guy like Owens, Tracey, maybe Valido. Plus the Sox could be open to dealing Viz and Shingo. Basically put I have no complaints. Sox could make those moves while holding onto the few guys they like the most. Plus the Sox have a lot of depth in the lower levels and you have to give something to get something. But considering what it would cost to get that top tier starter, this really isn't that much and it will truly strengthen the club. A strong bullpen will be a major asset down the strecth and an even bigger asset in the post-season. It allows a team to really shut the door of a game as well as keep a team in the game. And a pen with the main cogs as Hermy/Wagner/Marte/Politte/Cotts and than on the outside of that Jenks is pretty stinking ridiculous.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 05:35 PM) I also really, really like it. I said about a week ago that I was a little hesistaint for the Sox to go out and get the superstar player, this team just isn't about that IMO. Getting Omar gives us a possibily better 2 hole hitter than we have now in Tad, and obviously that is pretty hard to do. My concern is what happens to Joe. I guess he could go into one of the Omar/Wagner deal. Omar at SS, with Uribe at 3b, and Freel and Pablo backing up the Infeild would be great. With Wagner, its pretty clear on the upgrade he would be over a Shingo/Viz combo. You asked if anyone could imagine a pen of Cotts/Marte/Wagner/Pollitte/Hermanson/Jenks?, and it would be just goofy. Game over in the 6th, over. Get it done KW, this is doable. I think you keep playing Joe. He's too valuable to this team (his average may not be great, although he's made a lot of strides offensively this year). You play Vizquel at SS and let Uribe start 4 games a week or so. 2 games a week for Crede (to give his back some rest) and than a game a week for Omar and a game a week for Guchi). Acquiring Omar also spells the end for Willie as Pablo is a much more versatile back-up since he can play all infield positions as well as left field. I just hope Kenny does deal any intregal parts to this years team. They have something special going and I'd hate to see them hurt their defense or weaken a bunch of other areas just to help out in one area. Contenders don't trade from their major league roster (not usually at least...I understand how the Cabrera for Nomar deal worked out though).

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 05:17 PM) I just can't see anyone on the market who fits this bill. Schmidt and Burnett are the only names that I've heard so far, and both carry too steep a price tag for me, and are unpredictable. These are the two moves that need to be made. Solidify the pen. Shorten the game. Add a player who takes pressure off of Crede/Uribe. (Vizquel & Freel are the 2 guys I pursue hard) I'd give up anyone(except Young) on the farm to make these to moves work. -- McCarthy can go to San Fran. He'd be more likely to succeed there. I'd be happy for him. My ideal line-up for the stretch run would subtract Willie and add Vizquel; or Subtract Timo and (Willie or Ozuna) adding Freel and Gload. In the pen, I'd trim the dead weight of Shingo and Viz, and add Jenks (if he's ready) and Wagner. That's a playoff ready roster... Can you imagine a pen of Cotts/Marte/Wagner/Pollitte/Hermanson/Jenks? I definately like the way you think. Freel is definately another very good option. Great versatility and he's a good top of the order type guy. Plus I think the bottom of the order gets so much stronger with Guchi sliding on down. As far as starters go, I think your right on both Schmidt and Burnett. It seems highly unlikely that they could be had without giving up guys that I think are integral parts of the club (ie, Contreras, Crede and Marte). If a package of Bmac, Anderson, Valido, Shingo and a mid-level guy got the club Schmidt and Vizquel, I'd do it. But I can't see that happening. But like you say, just don't give up Chris Young. I'll part with any of the rest of the outfield prospects. Who knows though, maybe another starter will go up on the market. However, if Duque stays healthy (big indicator will be how he pitches his next few starts up until the deadline) than I could see the Sox staying put with the rotation and making the moves you hinted at. Wagner in the pen (without losing any of our other key cogs) is a major major addition that helps make the games even shorter, while a guy like Freel or Vizquel makes the offense better and gives the Sox so much versality and insurance (in the case of Crede's back). If getting a guy like Free/Vizquel and than Wagner cost the Sox a few of their top prospects, so be it.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 05:06 PM) i know everyone has heard that burnett was traded to boston, but there has been no other info besides that. this is what i read on the marlins websites message board tho...it actually includes names ESPN radio is reporting that the red sox get AJ in a three way deal with san diego involved. They said BOS gets: AJ Burnett and Mike Lowell SD gets: Abe Alvarez FLA gets: Sean Burroughs, Kelly Shoppach, and Bronson Arroyo I tend to bleieve this since Lowell and Burroughs both didn't play today... i know you guys dont put trust in mlb.com message boards, but i thought this sounded legit enough to at least deserve some credit If thats were the deal, I'd say the BoSox did a hell of a job. Of course they would have some other areas to address. But I don't think anything is done, maybe close, but not done.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 04:57 PM) Jason I agree with your thought process, it's obvious management is high on Jenks and want to see what he can do. They're probably thinking they want to see how much this guy can contribute and if he falls on his face, they feel they can land another bullpen arm in Aug. when more teams fall out of it. Jenks is a totally different look vs. anyone they have in the pen, huge power arm, etc. but he will need to calm down in a hurry. His first two outings he was majorly geeked up and overthrowing. Exactly, I tend to think the Sox will hold on bullpen help. If Jenks can dominate than they won't make a move. If he can't, than they'll be able to swing a deal after the non-waiver deadline passes. Relievers tend to pass through waivers. Than again, even if they give him the shot now, there is at least a decent amoutn of time to evaluate Jenks before July 31st.

First off, I think the Sox have a few areas they should possibly address. One would be a starter to help get this team through the post-season, not necessarily into it. The key being, I wnat a guy that can be one of the main gogs during the playoffs and be one of those contributing guys that puts the team over the top (not just gets us to the playoffs). The Sox also have a need for a backup infielder or in my opinion a starting shortstop which allows Uribe to start about 4 days a week in the backup role. The key for the infielder the Sox acquire is for him to be good defensively (as good as Juan) and to be a better hitter who could slide into the 2 hole (give the Sox more steals). Next, there could always be the addition of another quality reliever. As far as how the Sox get any of these needs, there is only one requirement from me. If they want to trade for a front of the rotation pitcher, do not include Jose Contreras in any trade (unless they are getting two starters in return). The point of trading is to sure up the rotation and that weakness is Duque, not Jose. If the Sox want to deal from the major leaguer roster...El Duque (if the Sox get another starter), Luis Vizcaino/Shingo (if the Sox are willing to get another reliever), Willie Harris, and Timo Perez are the only guys I'm willing to deal. If the opponents want someone else, I tell them thanks but no thanks. When it comes to prospects, if the Sox are getting a non-rental player, I'll give up some of those guys that may be deemed untouchable, however, if its a rental player I'd rather give lower level guys and the better rated prospects that may not be as good as the others (kind of a guess though). As far as who I'd like. Burnett would definately be nice, but if they want more than El Duque and prospects, piss off (unless the Sox want to make it a 3 way and deal some prospects for Redman or someone else). Schmidt would be really nice, but once again, if they want more than Duque, Shingo or Viz, and prospects (i'm talking good ones in both instances) they can piss off. Omar would look really nice. Personally speaking, I'd be willing to deal Valido and a mid level guy or even Valido and Shingo for Omar. Valido is the best shortstop in the org but Omar is the type of guy that could really help this team down the stretch and even in the next year or two. In terms of bullpen help....the names are quite obvious. From Ron Villone/Scott Eyre to the bigger names like Billy Wagner, Eddie Guardado, and Brad Lidge. Once again, especially in regards to Lidge, I'd be willing to deal some damn good prospects. For Lidge, Jenks could be one of those chips.

I think the Sox want to move Shingo to open up the roster spot for Jenks to stay. The Sox are very high on this kid. The only thing I can't figure out is why Ozzie has failed to use him. I'm not sure if Ozzie and Kenny see eye to eye on this point when it comes to Jenks. I'm not saying Ozzie doesn't like Jenks, but I don't think he has the confidence in him as of yet and would prefer a veteran. In regards to Gload, his rehab stint ended today so they got till tomorrow to do something. I swear he would be out of options but he must have one left cause everything I've heard has him being put on the Charlotte roster. The Sox can't get rid of Willie due to Crede's back.

QUOTE(SuperSteve @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) I don't know what kind of girls you hang out with, but none of the girls I know have a beard... Your just not meeting the right kind of girls

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 12:37 PM) Somehow I'm beginning to think the attendance issue is behind us. This team should draw a minimum of 2.5 mil this season. If they win, fans will come

Sweet sweep. Jonny boy wins #14 and the Sox cruise to victory

I'm sure its a total bs thing. Someone from herewould of heard Gammons say it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 10:07 AM) Especially with Duque going. Don't forget that Hermanson might not be available today. I'm beginning to think it might be in our best interest that if this delay goes for another hour or so, we'd rather it just get cancelled. No, not that a pitch has been thrown it was a 38 minute delay, which isn't too bad at all. Garland should be alright (thats just like a long inning). But I would probably have him on a shorter rope (pitch count wise). Now if the Sox go on to pound out hits or something the rest of the inning and it turns into an even longer delay, that would be another story.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 10:06 AM) And we're back. The tarps are off? I'm still getting a rain delay screen on my xtra innings.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 17, 2005 -> 10:03 AM) When Elarton was in the bullpen with the Astros, he was awesome. He looked better than Oswalt did when Oswalt pitched out of their pen. We're in a bad situation if this rains lasts too long. No reason to risk putting Garland back into the game. I'm trying to think what they can do. Cotts pitched again yesterday if I think right (so two games for him and he's one guy than can go multiple innings, but probably wouldn't be able to go too much today). Viz would be available or so I'd assume (but he also has worked 2 straight games). Regardless, if the delay is much more over an hour I'd probably tell Jon to sit down and wait for his next start. Hell, if Duque was activated I'd consider rolling him out for the rest of the game and opting to call up someone to start tomorrow. The thing I fear is the team having to use the pen for 8 innings and than they'll have nothing left in the tank for tomorrow's game against Detroit.

So have they announced a start time?

Good stuff R&W I have to think AJ is going. There is way too much smoke for there not to be too something going on in terms of Burnett (not only the Sox, but with the other teams). Whether its the BoSox (they should be looking at a reliver or two, imo), Orioles (makes a lot of sense), Blue Jays (can't see it, depsite them being rumored as potential front-runners), or White Sox (not if it costs Jose C, Marte, and more) taking part. Howver, if the BoSox acquire AJB and Lowell, than I want Kenny on the phone with Epstein talking about a trade for Bill Mueller. He'd be a real nice role player for the team and could easily start if Crede's back really flared up. Regardless he could fill in at 3rd and 2nd (don't know if he could do ss...leave that to Pablo).