Chisoxfn

I presume we won't get the type of offer we'd like to move Jose.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) I get it, I really do. The reliever thing. Does Kahnle have an injury history? Because Nate and Jesse did, if I recall correctly. Besides, I know Jesse was going to get us Arrieta, but no one knew Arrieta was going to turn into what he did either. Jesse really wasn't worth crap, even before he failed the physical. I guess I just believed in Kahnle, and would have personally taken the risk on him. Crain was having an extremely dominating season before going down and was coming off two straight above average seasons. Jesse Crain had a lot of value...of course by the point we were about to trade Arrietta for Crain..it was after he was hurt (and his value had already been diminished significnatly) and when he was about to come back (or so we thought...reality was he was never the same after that injury). Had we sold Crain before he got hurt that year, we'd have got some nice chips. He had a .74 ERA in 38 games that year (and the prior two seasons with the Sox had a 2.62 and 2.44 ERA) while striking out 11.3, 11.3, and 9.6 batters per nine innings. He put up a 2.4 WAR as a reliever in 38 games prior to going down with that injury. That is filthy.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:42 PM) Anyone pumped up about Goldberg coming back? No? Ok. I don't mind it.

Anderson has time to work and Moncada can to. We need to get guys up and learning if we intend to truly contend in a few years. Maybe we could have waited a bit longer, but at some point, get him with your best coaches and put in the work and get him time to develop. We'd have to wait until what, next June if we wanted to extend a year of control. Does anyone legitimately think we were going to do that, so at this point, while he hasn't totally dominated, I think he's proven that he's held his own and we can have him up and learn (just like Anderson will learn from this season and hopefully make adjustments in the 2nd half of this year and again in the off-season to rebound and get back to being the player we think he will). We'll also likely start seeing some of our future pitchers emerge onto the seen and get better too. Not everyone will pan out and players are going to take time to develop and this process will take time.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:36 PM) I'm gonna miss DRob. He struggled at times but I have never heard one bad thing about him off the field. He was one of the few free agents we've signed that wasn't a massive bust. And from the Yanks perspective, they have a ridiculous bullpen and Frazier is the type of bat that I think fits nicely for a contender. Yanks pen can be dominant (think Royals of a couple years ago). That model can work (when combined with a nice offense).

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:33 PM) Would've rather seen Delmonico. I love Delmonico's bat and I look forward to seeing him up at some point. Perfect guy for a rebuild (someone we could turn into a traceable asset in a few years...bat I think will play...defensive flaws...maybe he plays into better then that). I really think his bat will play though.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:30 PM) For Hahn to get all this potential talent is nine months is amazing. Kudos to him. No guarantees but no one can say that he isn't going full bore with this and demanding quality in return. I also like that we aren't sitting too long on these pieces. By moving guys earlier, we are ensuring we drive the market (and actually by executing on the deals we have, I think everyone knows we are serious and are willing to pull the trigger, but also recognize we aren't going to cave on price). This also means we can get cute with the final asset or two and spend a lot of time working/thinking about Avi / Melky (and anyone else we dangle). It will be interesting to see if we do any "buying" nearer the deadline of guys we think are good buy-low candidates (say jumping in as a 3rd team in a deal). Or even acting as a cash buffer to absorb a contract for prospect (given how low our payroll figures to be the next couple years and the fact that we have few real ways to truly invest/leverage that cash).

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:28 PM) I'm not sure some of you guys understand Rutherford's potential value and future impact. He's been coveted by a ton of teams in talks and was a very tough get. Front office is THRILLED to acquire him. I think this is a better trade then the Sale deal and probably like it more then the Q deal as well. I really really am a fan of this deal. With Sale / Q, I think the idea that we win the deal (as in get better talent then what we gave up, is relatively minimal)...now do we get future value (when we weren't able to leverage the current value of Q/Sale)...sure, but I don't see us winning those deals. In the case of this trade, I could see us acquiring the best player in the deal (as well as other contributors). Oddly enough, I could see this being the deal that when we look back a few years down the road, put us over the top.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:19 PM) Nightengale says "The truth of the matter is that the Redsox never showed serious interest in Todd Frazier, but it didn't hurt for other teams to believe it." IF true..brilliant use by Hahn/Kenny to use Nightengale and the rival Red Sox to pump up the price the Yanks would be willing to pay.

On this notion that we had to take on Clipart? We owe him like 3-4M...that is not taking on some massive contract. If anything, we'll flip him to the Nats for a backbend piece (not a good prospect...but I could see someone betting on a change of scenery). Random lefties like him find ways to get moved all the time at the deadline. Either way, we got an elite prospect without giving up any elite player (or anyone we will regret long-term). The fact that we got an elite talent without giving up elite players is a major plus for me (and Clarkin and Polo are very legit pieces). Clarkin has a shot to be a good starter and Polo probably has a solid shot at being a 4th outfielder(not crazy, but value there). Rutherford obviously drives the trade but 3-4 years from now we could be looking at getting a regular all star and a solid middle of the rotation starter for three guys who would not be around for our rebuild. We could also see none of them pan out, but the upside is there and I see minimal risk (in the sense that we gave up one of the best players in the game (which was not the case when we dealt Eaton / Sale / Q...all of whom had demonstrated an ability to be elite and/or well above average).

I actually like this trade a lot more then most (after being more lukewarm on the past deal or two). Getting a premium guy like Rutherford for non-premium players is a nice thing. We won't look bad and regret moving any of these guys when we are contending next and if we were able to get a star and a guy who can be in our rotation, that would be a huge win. There is a lot of pressure on the developmental people because we've brought in quite a few lower level (albeit highly talented prospects) who have a lot more bust risk. Sad thing is...this is about it when it comes to us being able to offer up deals for prospects. At this point it is on the developmental staff to develop players and obviously the scouts and front office to draft more talent (and hopefully identify some good buy low sell high candidates over the next year or two before we are ready to contend). Avi is probably the only really interesting guy left (if we were to deal him and Id have to think at this point, there is too much film of bad Avi that people aren't yet convinced / ready to pay the price we'd want for him. Melky probably gets us a guy with some relief upside or a flier with some potential but we aren't getting back a top 150 guy for him (but that is okay..depth isn't bad).

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:29 AM) I legit just don't remember. I certainly wouldn't be shocked if there were people trying to dfa Rob, I just don't recall. I don't think so, but like you, many times I said we should move on from Avi (of course that was when we were trying to contend) and I would have DFA'd him probably a year and a half ago. That said, this past off-season, when everyone flipped that we offered him arb, I had a totally different stance because he wasn't in anyone's way and he did clearly have talent, so why not give him the at bats to see if we could gain upside.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) Remember when a bunch of people wanted to DFA Robertson? Man times change. Who wanted to DFA Robertson? He's been good for the White Sox.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) Just like the olden days... The rest of working america is ok with commuting, some even flying every monday and then home every thursday. Why cant they? The public transportation system is pretty great in DC as well. If you are flying in, you are getting paid. Are they not getting paid for their travel? Or are they getting paid and instead he wants a housing stipend (vs. staying in hotels)? If they aren't getting paid and travel is part of the gig, you should be compensated, imo.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 06:39 AM) Commuting 20-30 minutes out of DC to a more affordable area isnt too much to ask. You can EASILY live comfortably on that salary just out of the immediate DC area. You also have your primary residence in your main district. DC is absurdly expensive. Maybe I'm tone deaf, but I can appreciate the concept.

I flew United last week (not my usual airline...I typically fly American when prices are similar...cause I have the most points with them). Flight was fine (same as with any other airline).

Great article. Will be interesting to see if we can develop him. The interesting thing about all these trades and new position prospects will be how our coaching staff does ultimately developing these players. We have made changes and now their is talent in the pipeline...will be curious to see the results. Hopefully we can do this development thing with position players!!!

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) I think Hahn's a far superior GM than KW ever was, I don't see him picking fights with star players either Williams always had a weak system and an underachieving, slow, aging lineup At least Hahn has a direction and is truly dominating this rebuild Williams built the Sox top ranked farm system in the late 90's / early 2000's (Schueler / Dan Evans also played parts) but Kenny played an integral role. In later years the club short-changed the player development areas and focused all resources on existing major league talent (certainly a more short-sited approach) but that might have been partially driven by ownership's preference to extend its competitive window. Eventually it did catch up and while I'll knock him for the lack of quality talent development (especially on the position front, post Crede / Rowand), I'll also give him credit for his aggression and his ability to largely trade away the right prospects (not always for the right players).

Get fixed and get better. I still think we'll see him in 2019 with the big club and to be honest, it is better that it happens now then 2-3 years from now when we are more prepared to be in the early stages of hopefully contending. Sucks as I wish it would not have happened at all, but he can recover and be a valuable asset to the major league club in 2019.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 09:32 AM) I don't like playing the prospect game but since the Sox are doing so, you probably are over-criticizing the deal. The rating game can be stupid but Eloy is the No. 5 player in baseball and films of him are promising as he hits some bombs. At 6-4 he looks the part of slugger. Cease is the Cubs' No. 1 pitching prospect. If you want to go the prospect route, you probably can't argue with this one on paper. Eloy in theory could be playing for the Sox a long time, at least til he hits the big payday in free agency. Also don't forget if you throw out the recent dominance of Q, he's been hit a bit this season. I expect him to be great for the Cubs the rest of the year and I think he will wake them up, but you don't know. I'm wait and see on the prospect game, but on paper you get a great hitting prospect in Eloy and a team's No. 1 pitching prospect. Most of the fans on here are committed to a rebuild, not sure if you are or not, but if you want a rebuild, I don't think you could probably ask for more. That third prospect the Sox got has 14 home runs this year. Not bad for a throw in. Unfortunately it's wait and see. Sox aren't interested in acquiring major league ready guys right now. So it's add two more (on paper) blue chip prospects and see what happens. I love Q but it's possible you are over-valuing him as well. When he was having all those mediocre starts earlier in the season and the high ERA, he didn't exactly look overwhelmingly good. Sox have several players now projected to take over certain positions in the next few years. I can see why you hate the deal but there's no way to positively grade it right now. On paper, the Sox 3 major trades all brought future stars to the team. Really great points Greg. I agree with most everything you said.

Well done Brian.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:39 AM) Quality over quantity. The 2 throw ins , blah, at least Rose has some power . Theo has no problem dealing top prospects. Agree. Top 2 guys are high-end. Bust risk for sure...but high-end talents. Great to have those types of injections in the system. Now lets see us start developing that high-end position talent (while doing what we do best with pitching talent).

Anything interesting about the two infielders? They seem to have pretty limited potential.

Top 2 guys have high-end possibilities, they are also still at lower levels so certainly risk associated with it. Will miss Q...truly a fantastic pitcher.

Q to the Cubs. New thread since it is now live (vs. buried in an old thread).