GreenSox

I didn't think the market for Kimbrel would amount to much, but it looks like they will get something. If it's the Phillies, send us Eflin. Still young, has been pretty good, but not great; I think he's sitting on a big season.

I do hate repeating the practices that put the Sox in a 5-year hole, and creating a hole to fill a non-hole. Anyway, what major (or non-major) hole does this fill? Maybe SP, as his gives Hahn room to move Crochet, one of the few players of real value that he could trade. Athletics, I'm sure, would be pleased with Crochet for 1 year of Bassitt, although the FO would provide them with more.

This FO loves veteran relief pitchers.

There's nothing wrong with Bassitt. He'll be a good pitcher to sign next year. There's a lot wrong with Rick Hahn trading for him. Horrid record with trades with As; trading for 1-year player (with all due respect to Lynn); weirdness of trading for a player that he once traded away for dimes on the dollar.

Trouble is, when talking OF, there isn't a lot to go big with. Marte can really hit, but not much power. Castellanos can rake, but his D is terrible (at least by the numbers).

Trading for Chris Bassitt is pretty close to the last thing Rick Hahn should do this offseason. Escobar's a good player; it would be great if they can sign him. I can see the Semien hesitancy....he wants to be paid for those 45 dingers.

No my cup of tea, but definitely a Hahn type of trade: load up the wagon for a good, not great, player.

Go get 'em, Rick Hahn. Premium talent. I think I can, I think I can...

I would hope that they have far more than a 2 year window. 4 good years after 7 years of a dog-and-pony show is no good leverage. Capable front offices contend for far more than 4 years. This "all in" stuff is not something adept front offices do in order to contend.

It's not that I think Leury's particularly good; it's just that I think trading for Segura or, even worse, Merrifield, would just be ridiculous. I think there may be temptation there, as they are on 2 year contracts, a window Hahn seems to favor. I think the FA 2B are much more interesting than the FA RFs, so signing one of those guys would be my preference. As for OF, I think Sheets/Vaugh will hit; and as for D, I'd like to upgrade LF as well. I also think there would be trade targets for OF, including some players on their ascendancy and possibly a young player for young player trade.

I'd rather sign Leury to be the 2B starter, than a lot of these trades and trade targets bandied about.

Hahn is the best in the biz at begging the question. That "explanation" explains nothing.

Maybe so. Same with Kimbrel - maybe Hahn's got something up his sleeve that explains that 16 mill. But all this would require Hahn being proactive, having an effective plan, and being able to execute that plan. Based on the last decade of Hahn, I doubt it. But we'll find out one way or the other.

Lux skyrocketed to a top 5/10 prospect going into 2020. But since that time, he's had 2 stints in the majors (his 2nd and 3rd stints) and none of the 3 have gone terribly well. He's also had problems making contact. Vaughn had issues, but he's been up only 1 season (versus 3) and also had a pretty significant position change. I don't know who's better, but I think the bloom is off the Lux rose, and if the Sox like him, they should be able to get him for less.

Kimbrel @ $16 is an overpay in all but fluke circumstances; so if you can only have one, none is the answer. And in the Kimbrel @ $16 or Rodon @ $18.4 choice, Rodon is the obvious choice by a mile.

Those are some crocodile tears when you give $16Mill to Kimbrel.

It's the context: Rodon option declined while Kimbrel was exercised. Under no objective measure is using $16 million on Kimbrel a wise investment. If there are concerns about his health, then why shoot for a longer deal? And it's the context: not picking up 18.4 for Rodon, while exercising $16 for Kimbrel. The 18.4 is dependent on his health; but the $16 is objectively a large overpay in any circumstance.

Well sure he's had some hits. But he's had far more misses. And when you trade for veterans, you're supposed to be getting the sure thing and you should have more hits than misses. Many of his trades for veterans are obvious overpays on the front end, even if the veteran performed as expected. Part of it is that the Sox don't have the FO infrastructure of the top orgs (pro scouting, state-of-the-art analytics) and are still too 'friends and family." And a lot of contending teams aren't veterans only, and keep a constant infusion of young talent.

Ugh. Rather stick with the Engel/Sheets/Vaughn trinity. Duvall is a 2 WAR player only because of D; and yet in the 2 prior years, he had a negative defensive WAR. Seems akin to the Eaton 7-8 WAR he throw out there once. Otherwise, he's a low OBP hitter, not exactly in short supply on the southside.

If he's eligible for a QO (is he?), then $18.4 mill for Rodon seems reasonable (esp. if you're paying, by choice, $16 mill for Kimbrel). The first half of the year Rodon is absolutely worth that, and more. If he declines, he declines...the Sox will get some comp.

Perhaps. Or maybe it's the GM who, once again, refuses to face the reality that he overpaid for and overrated yet another veteran. Squandering assets takes its toll.

$16 million is far greater than his market value. The only way to trade him for anything, and it won't be much, is to eat 1/2 the salary. That said, if they didn't pick up the option, they likely would have traded for a reliever, so at least this may preclude that overpay.

Well, that was extra high....and they didn't really need the pitcher that I guess Hahn thought was the best closer in the game...they just needed another good reliever. Kimbrel was an easy trade to make - not much scouting required. And perhaps that's part of the problem - lack of a functional pro scouting department. And they put so many resources into relievers - that's effectively 3 first round picks that Hahn has used on relief pitching (maybe Crochet is a starter but that's never been better than 50/50) plus some high priced free agents. Sadly, Robertson/Kahnle/Frazier was an exception to July "Buy high"

The Kimbrel trade was a classic buy high trade.

Giants did it. As have done it for 20 years. The Sox could have done it - Hahn effed it up.