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QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Feb 6, 2010 -> 07:30 PM) Today on White Sox weekly, Mike Gonzalez mentioned that A-Gon will likely be dealt, its only a matter of time. The team with the best chance to get him are the Red Sox. Jed Hoyer was the former Assistant GM for the Red Sox and has a great relationship w/ Epstien. With the Red Sox deep farm- and Hoyer's knowledge of all of those prospects, it would be really hard to match up with them. Not to hijack the thread, but isn't it curious that with all those years of winning, the Red Sox have a better farm system than ours. I guess we can't use the excuse that we don't get enough top draft picks.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jan 7, 2010 -> 04:57 PM) How about Kenny signs Arnoldis Chapman for 5yrs/25mil, then sends both the Danks brothers and (if necessary), Flowers or Hudson to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez? Thoughts??? Why not just throw in Beckham as a deal sweetner?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 3, 2010 -> 01:31 AM) Some of you guys are wound up wayyy too tight. I was expecting an abomination of an article. Peavy is a proven ace. But he's going from a pitchers paradise to a hitters haven (and a superior league). I agree. Do fans only want to read about how great their team and ownership is? And I still think that the Rios pickup was a terrible move given the money that we will spend on him and his alarming decline in productivity.

QUOTE (maki @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) no way, you can get pretty much anything done, and have to, given the fact that a huge portion of the offseason happens to be winter. they can get anything they need to done provided it doesn't get down to 5-10 degrees. if they waited for 50 we'd be 3 weeks into the season. I would be shocked and amazed if anything more than a buildout of the empty ground floor space in the new north end stair tower gets done in the next two years. Whatever commercial development gets buit at that location has to survive on its own and cannot rely on the critical mass provided by only 81 home dates. With the economy in the tank and banks unwilling to lend, trust me, the extensive development described in the article will not happen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) The reason is because we have maybe 4 or 5 good players in our farm system, and the rest is absolute junk. When you look at our roster, we have a handful of players that are likely on their way out in a year or two. Since we're never competitive in the FA market, there's going to have to be guys like Flowers and Viciedo that step into a starting role. Absolutley...not only that, you need a little depth in the farm system to be able to supplement your roster during the year when injuries, slumps etc happen. This isn't fanatasy league, people. What makes more sense, to me, is to involve a third team and explore dealing Mark Buehrle. This way, whoever gets Mark surrenders the prospects to SD, we free up $14 million in salary, and we get something for a great pitcher, but one whose skills may be in decline.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2009 -> 03:13 AM) With our starting pitching...esp. if we can put a decent defense behind them, we shouldn't need an above average offense. We should need an adequate offense. Shoring up the defense will help, but if we do not fix the holes in out bullpen, I see a lot of six and seven inning quality starts with losses attached to them.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 5, 2009 -> 04:34 PM) The Winter Meetings are about to get underway. I predict KW to do something HUGE, perhaps involving Jenks. . . The Rays want to add a backstop and bolster their bullpen. Hmm perhaps Jenks and Flowers for BJ Upton. Come on people our bullpen is bad enough. And who are we going to get to close? Thorton? That's nice now who is the set up guy? Hudson? No we will probably trade him for soemone else too. It has also taken us forever to land a decent catching prospect- all that for an inconsistent outfielder? Sadly, I can see all of this happening

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 29, 2009 -> 05:11 PM) You sided with KHP's opinion that there had to be somebody better that could've been brought up to replace Linebrink. Then right after that you state (and you're right) that terrible draft after terrible draft after terrible draft left us with basically zero legitimate alternatives to turn to in which we could replace Linebrink. To clarify, I did not necessarily agree that we had they guys to replace Scott. My point was that if we had an organization good at developing and keeping players the strategy of replacing bullpen guys with younger arms from your own system is a good one, assuming you as an orgaization have the talent to do so. It is not good payroll management to overpay for guys like Linebrink, and Dotel, whereby for 8 million dollars we get 1 whole win over a replacement level player (Source: fangrapghs.com). I guess that as on organization, the Sox are paying dearly for the drafting sins of the past. This just shows that if a team does not spend the $ on the drafting and developmental side, they end up paying throught he nose just to fill roster spots with replacement level players.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 29, 2009 -> 03:31 PM) There's a contradiction somewhere in this post. I'll see if you can find it. OK, I'll bite.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 29, 2009 -> 04:27 AM) I started this whole argument by responding to Ranger's comments on some of the callers who would phone in to his show to b**** about Linebrink. I posted the stats a few pages back, and for the exception of about 5 innings or so from Nunez, everyone on the team was better than Linebrink in the second half. To assume there was no one who would have performed better than Linebrink is a massive assumption considering how bad Linebrink was. I've seen others comment on Linebrink's past success as well as his stuff as reasons to keep going to him over someone else on the farm. I'll respond by again pointing out that 1) Linebrink has had a terrible second half in each of the last 4 seasons, so for past success you really do have to go back pretty far, and 2) Linebrink's "stuff" doesn't mean jack if he can't use it properly. For example, why were Aardsma, MacDougal, Sisco, and Masset sent down in '07? We called up Ehren Wassermann that year, who in comparison has pretty much nothing as far as stuff, and yet Ehren performed extremely well. Ryan Bukvich, who also had much lesser stuff, came up in '07 as well and pitched a hell of a lot better than the other guys he was replacing. DJ Carrasco is yet another example of the "stuff" argument not always panning out. DJ has been one the most important pieces to our bullpen the last two seasons, possibly THE most important piece given the amount of innings he's taken off the arms in the back of the pen, and yet Carrasco will be the guy with the weakest stuff on the entire 2010 pitching staff. Carlos Torres is another one. Torres has pretty much nothing to work with at all, and yet he still was a much better pitcher in the second half than Linebrink was. At least Torres tries to mix it up and work to both sides of the plate rather than the "fastball right down the chute" style Linebrink uses. My whole point was that Ranger's arguments for running Linebrink out there were terrible arguments that can be easily refuted with statistics. The only reason the Sox ran Linebrink out there was because of the vast amount of money owed to him, and possibly, if you want to dig that far, because the Sox wanted him to help Peavy with his transition. Therefore it is a complete dick move for Ranger to laugh at the callers who voiced their displeasure on his show, because the callers were making valid points, and they had valid reasons for their complaints. And as I said before, if you don't want to blame it on the contract over the radio, then at least don't come here and start that s*** again because you're going to get an actual baseball argument in return. Ranger can make some points, and most of the time he does and he is easy to agree with, but he still can be a snob to a lot of his callers for no reason. It's one thing to rip on someone for saying something completely irrational, but you should at least look at the numbers first, because Linebrink really was that bad. Literally *anyone* else in our pen could have done better, and when it comes to what we had on the farm, there were definitely other options, including no-risk candidates like Derek Rodriguez and Fernando Hernandez, who everyone knew would be left unprotected after the season ended anyway. And again, I know Linebrink was out there because of his contract. That's the Sox decision, that's their money, their player, etc. But if you disagree with the Sox decision, you still have every right to b**** about it. Maybe b****ing about it is pointless and gets you nowhere (looking at the CF situation from 2006-09) but there's still a valid argument there. I can understand Rangers point but side withe KHP on this debate. I see a trend in baseball now whereby even the big market teams like the Yankess and Red Sox are turning to their farm system to stock their bull pen corps. The reason the Sox have to stick with expensive rag-armed options like Linebrink, MacDougal etc is because the Sox inexcusably drafted crappy low ceiling pitchers for several years and thus have few alternatives in their system to turn to. (This is why that I am hoping that Kenny does not trade Daniel Hudson this off season. I see Hudson taking over Linebrink's role at mid season.)

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 27, 2009 -> 05:49 PM) Hahn is too good of an asst. GM not to get a job one day. I figure him and Cora will be out in the next couple years, Cora as a mgr, Hahn as a GM. Its just a matter of time. In fact, I believe Hahn could have already taken a job, but he's happy in Chicago and has his family here so he doesnt' want to leave unless he gets a very good opportunity (ie, not the Pirates, haha). I for one hope that KW will be kicked upstairs soon and Hahn assumes control of the team. Face it, 05 was great but it was fluke. Since that time, Kenny has used the approach of leveraging prospects for older veteran types who have bigger contracts. Eventually, in order to have repeated success at CONTENDING we have to eventually develop a strong farm system where we not only develop good players but maybe actually keep a few of them. With the decline of hormone and amphetamine use, baseball to a large extent is reverting back to old days when power wasn't as important as pure fundamental baseball skills like speed, defense, on-base %, etc.. Things worked out OK in the last few years when we had the gate and advertisers to support a larger payroll, but with some bad seasons recently and a poor economy, I do not see Kenny's strategy of acquiring older and more expensive players , whether through free agency or trading prospects, as being sustainable. Sure getting Jake Peavy was great and our rotation is shaping up to be awesome next year but what about the rest of the team? I see us leading the league in quality starts but finishing in third place. What about the other holes on the team? I know that as a fan, I am in the minority here, but I think that future success will hinge on a younger team developed from within.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 06:02 PM) Winning is important to the longterm success of most organizations in baseball, and it's also fun for the fans. Some deals make more sense than others, you have to weigh risk vs. potential reward. How is this being ignored? Unproven prospects have more value now IMO than they had in the past. Look at some of the outrageous bonuses that foreign players are receiving in international free agency. I have no idea how much MLB in general spends on scouting, signing, and developing prospects, but it's a lot. If you're specifically talking about the Sox, look at all Kenny's trades, and how many good players did we end up giving away? Very few. It's easier to produce some very good players when you put that money into the farm and those teams have done that quite a bit. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers have all traded prospects who have become stars in recent history, and they've all been burned by prospects not turning out as well. MacDougal was a smart move at the time. He had a terrific arm, was healthy at the moment, and we needed help in the bullpen. We were coming off a World Championship and wanted to get back to the postseason. His contract wasn't really bad at all by comparison. It sucked that we wasted money, but MacDougal was nowhere near the Linebrink stratosphere in terms of dollars. So far the prospects we gave up haven't done anything either. Linebrink was the result of the 2007 bullpen (and season as a whole) plus the relief market at the time. There are tons of other examples of overpaid relievers who got contracts between the 2004-2007 or so period. The Sox happened to be one of those teams, and unfortunately they gave Linebrink 4 years. But I wouldn't say they overpaid by much if at all because he was one of the top setup guys on that year's market, maybe even the top guy. There is an enormous difference beween Crawford and Gonzalez. Crawford makes $10M in 2010 and then hits FA. Plus he's a LF who we'd only want for defense and lead-off capabilities, which IMO is way too much of our flexibility. I would argue Crawford as a very nice additional player, but he's not a franchise bat like Gonzalez. Gonzalez makes $10.25M over 2 years, not one, and then hits FA. He OTOH fills our biggest offensive need (bit lefty bat, OPS, big power) while being cost-effective. IMO Gonzalez would be an acquisition with a 2010-2011 World Series Championship in mind, Crawford an acquisition with the 2010 Division Championship in mind. Major difference. I'd do Gonzalez, but not Crawford. We didn't pay anything to get Rios, and Rios in CF at his career numbers is at least a market-level deal, and a much better contract than Rowand, Hunter, Fukudome, GMJ, etc. We underpaid for Peavy also. The only reason he came so cheap was because of his salary, the Padres desperation to move him, and his NTC. I can't think of another player in recent history who was that good and acquired that cheaply. In terms of prospects, the Sox gave up quite a bit more to get Freddy Garcia for half of a year than they gave up for like 3.5 years or whatever of Peavy. Also, the bullpen comment... we have talent in the pen. Bullpens are hard to predict, but with a better rotation eating innings they should see a lot less work, and they'll have a chance to be better. I didn't like the Pena deal, and I still don't, but Pena does have some serious talent. Same with Linebrink. And we've got quite a few in-house candidates with MLB arms in there as well, plus Thornton is a beast and Jenks, prior to 2009, had been the same. Our bullpen in 2010 could be a strength for all we know. Um, not really. Quentin, Alexei, Floyd, and Danks were all developed outside of the organization. Beckham didn't even spend a full year in the minors, and in fact, for a while there he looked like he was going to make the team out of Spring Training as a 2B last year. The key is having the pieces in farm to make moves with, then doing the scouting and making sure that the young players you bring into the picture - no matter what organization they came from - are going to be good bets to succeed. BTW, this "buying expensive pieces off the shelf" thing doesn't apply to the Sox hardly at all. They are rarely significant players in FA and they make a lot of their deals for proven players while getting cash back (Teahen, Thome, Cabrera, Contreras, etc.). The Sox have been mostly a reclamation project/buy low team for a while now with a few exceptions. Thoughtful response KHP, thanks. My point is that we have to be better at drafting and developing younger players. It would also be nice to keep some of them as well. I like the deals for Quentin, Alexei Floyd and Danks as these trades netted us players that will be around for several years. Similiarly, When you are good at developing players, you get to keep them for at least six years until they become free agent ellible. Yea Rios did not cost us anything but he has a contract that will saddle us big time over the next five years. Getting him may have been Williams worst move ever. Peavy is good, but with this pen, i hope he has a lot of complete games in him. I am also sorry but I don't buy the 'Bullpens are a crapshoot' excuse. If you develop decent pitchers, chances are you can find a few guys to fill out your bullpen..

Why is it everytime an expensive, but short term veteran player is available just about every fan wants to unload the whole farm system to acquire him? They ignore the fact that we have many more needs in other areas and that the practice of mortgaging every decent prospect you have for a quick fix is not sustainable. Even the big market teams like the Yankees, Red sox and Dodgers are smart enough to realize that you have to keep some of your younger players, particualary young pitchers who can fill important bullpen roles. That way you don't have to overspend and get overused rejects like Linebrink and MacDougal. Yes, getting Crawford or Gonzalez would be great but at what cost? Then when we overpay to get guys like them or Rios and Peavy, there is the inevitable self pity and whining on the part of management that we are too poor to fill other roster positions. We will have the best rotation in the league next year but no backup help from the bullpen. If this team wants to achieve sustainable success in the long term, at some point they have to get to the point where they develop their own players. As the economy sputters and revenue streams will be hard to sustain, the Sox have to be smart when it comes to management of their roster. Buying expensive pieces off the shelf will not be the answer.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 09:54 PM) That's really not a bad contract. Obviously the length is concerning if he ever suffers injuries but even then at $6M per year that's hardly crippling No it's not. Especially when you piss away a similiar amount of money on Scott Linebrink, you can give a little more to a quality strting pitcher.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Sep 24, 2009 -> 04:42 PM) My surprise player: John Danks. I was thinking a while ago that my two surprise players to be dealt were Buehrle or Danks... Mark because of hids higher salary and he is on the last two seasons of his deal, and John because of his circulation issues and the fact that he spurned a contract extension from the Sox. If Kenny is going to omprove this mess, he does have toc rack a few eggs in the off season.

QUOTE (G&T @ Sep 13, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but it was interesting: On B&B last week, Boers said that "his guy" with the Sox (who is rarely wrong about anything, BTW) told him that JR is pretty pissed off about how poorly the Sox have played after being told that Rios and Peavy would be enough to make the playoffs. That's what prompted the attempted sell off on Aug. 31 and the "blame me" stuff from Ozzie. I think there is a lot riding on a playoff spot for this team. The acquisitions of three large contracts Rios, Peavy and Linebrink will strongly challenge Jerry's loyalty to Kenny in the next year or so...If things continue to unravel and we come up snake-eyes on all three of these guys, I see a Paxon-esque move wherby Kenny would be kicked 'upstais' and Rick Hahn would take over. In the short term, I see a couple of sacrificial lambs regarding the coaching staff in the offseason (hitting and bullpen coaches).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 03:49 AM) Usually KW has a really good touch with these mid-season adjustments (even Geoff Blum contributed eventually), but I was struggling to think of one that has had more of a detrimental affect (short-term) to our playoff chances when something was expected of him. Peavy, there was uncertainty whether he would even pitch again this season. Griffey was already washed up, but was acquired more for his veteran presence, leadership and steadying presence. I have a pretty strong belief that Rios can get things turned around next season, but Alex has failed consistently in big situations since we've acquired him. Just perplexing. Roberto Alomar? It was pretty clear he wasn't the same player, as his skills went south very quickly, just like Ryne Sandberg at 2B. You say that he has had success but then you list all of his failures. Add to those failures... Danny Richar.. Horacio Ramírez, MacDougal (although he was OK when we got him)... Garcia was his best acquisition during the season.

QUOTE (bobryansson @ Sep 9, 2009 -> 03:01 AM) This is a good time for Hudson to continue his intro to the big leagues. He looks OK. True, but I don't want to count on him next year..Needs more seasoning...

QUOTE (Tdubb @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) Rooney is from Missouri and and huge Cardinal fan. After winning the series with the Sox here in Chicago and a position opening up with the Cards I really don't think Jerry could have done anything to keep him. That is bologna. There were two factors invlolved here. While the Sox liked Rooney, I do not think that they liked him that much to pay him a lot of cash to stay. They watched other popular announcers walk out the door before, so why not Rooney. Besides, the Sox typically do not have a history of paying a lot of money to announcers, Steve Stone being an exception perhaps. The other thing happening was that the Score was going to be the new radio home for the White Sox and recall that for a while, newly appointed program director, Mitch Rosen, wanted to make his own imprint on the Score and that he did. He brought in Chris Singleton and made Farmer the main play by play voice. Rosen, along with a cost cutting upper managment, made other wonderful moves at the station that they have since made up for by hiring back some of the same guys that walked out the door in years previous. So if the Score and the Sox wanted Rooney back, they could have made it happened.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:50 PM) PS http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/phillies-inte-1.html So there. The same guy Kenny dealt for Carlos Quentin he also was going to deal for Akinori Otsuka, who at the time was a 35-year-old setup man with 4 seasons in MLB. I maintain that Allen is a very similar prospect to Carter, and I believe this Tony Pena deal was very close to the deal the Sox almost made for Otsuka. It was a short-sighted, desperate move by Kenny and a steal for the DBacks Kenny and the Sox HAVE to change their approach as far as how they stock their roster with relievers. The trend nowadays seems to be for teams to develop these guys within your own system rather than going out and overpaying for expensive washed up talent like Linebrink, Dotel and Mmac Dougal. Even a big market club like the Red Sox has a lot of no-name young guys who are fairly effective.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Sep 3, 2009 -> 01:56 AM) Winner! Not only that, but got every series right.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) He got a 28 year old 5-tool player for no prospects. He took on the contract, alright. But, are you honestly going to b**** when Rios has the ability to put up a .800+ OPS and play a stellar CF while making $11 million a year? We're going to have him in the middle of his prime. He might not be hitting now, but he hasn't hit well all year. It's just a bad year for him in terms of luck. TOOL may be the operative term when describing Rios..he was a dog in toronto and based on this small sample size in a Sox uniform, I see no change in that status for us.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 03:03 AM) You just gotta tip your cap to the Red Sox tonight. They had some very patient ABs. Oh no...not the obligatory cap tipping again!!!

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 22, 2009 -> 02:01 AM) Since when was Reinsdorf "more aggressive" in the '90s? What a poorly-written and factually-incorrect piece of crap. Really...I thought that ownership operated very conservatively in the nineties, and in fact, if it had been more aggresive, may have had more to show than one division title