SoxAce

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 10:39 PM) We won't. It would cost us $6.5 million + next year minimum to offer him arbitration, unless he signs with somewhere else first. That's 2-3 times the amount you'd pay for him right now otherwise. Offer him arbitration and Viciedo is our DH next year, potentially. It's 6.5? Coulda sworn it was lower.. If that's the case.. then yea, the sox probably won't unless Jenks and/or Linebrink are traded. Or they can always go the OCab route, and tell him they don't want him back and just decline it. EDIT: Your right Balta.. six mil actually, though can't he get only 5 mil if the two sides compromise?

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 11:05 AM) I wish college wasn't so required these days. I just am not a school person. Always tested very high on tests and am very intelligent but I hate the school setting. I would much rather work. This is probably why I am in year number 6 of college and still have no passion or desire to go into anything. Ditto. I actually commend you for going at least. I personally didn't want to try it and be stuck deep in the negative in terms of credit not to mention I hate school (you were probably alot better in grades than I was, I was more of the popular bad dude). I'm thinking about going to college in 2010 though after a near five year lay-off since now I know the field I'm probably going to go into at least.

Jeter's next movie.

Ummm.. yea if anyone told me that the Hawks would go into Boston Garden and not only win, but hold the Celtics to 86 points.. I would have laughed in your face.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 08:01 PM) Jesus does Toronto suck. I know their record is bad, but this is the first time I have seen them this year. Phil Kessel is a stud though. I actually remember him last year.. Wasn't he on Boston or Pittsburgh? Good find/trade by the front office.

QUOTE (GO CHI SOX! @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 07:39 PM) Offer Dotel arbitration and sign Thome dirt cheap. We are in a very good spot IMO on Dotel. Worst or Best (different view for some posters) case scenario, he accepts and he's another good veteran arm in the pen. Or.. he can decline it and we'd have a sup. pick comming to us. IMO personally... it's a win-win. The spect lover in me though hopes he declines, but I could definitely see Dotel accepting if he really likes the guys and the overall team here. I still like Dotel with us in the pen alot.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 04:22 PM) SA, the problem with waiting for Joey Votto or whomever the next stud who prices him out of his team's payroll is that we will be a year older. Joey Votto won't help us in 2010. Mark would be a year older. JP would be a year closer to leaving. Danks, Floyd, and Q will be getting more expensive, etc., etc. I agree with KHP....we need a sense of urgency while we have this rotation locked up and still in their primes. Obviously we don't want to be stupid about anything, but our time is now - 2010 - 2012 in my mind. All of those players you listed minus Buehrle are in their primes, Floyd is locked up, Peavy will be here for years, so only Danks/Quentin your talking about a raise with Konerko, A.J., etc.. all comming off the books in 2010. I do agree that we shouldn't do anything stupid as well, so we won't see any 7-1 deals anytime soon, but I understand that Adrian will be part of our core for at least 2 years. But i also don't feel we have a specific window. KW has done a wonderful job at not only keeping us competitive now, but for a very long time with youth guys now and up and comming (Beckham, Flowers, etc..) and as KHP eluted to, who knows how anything will be 3-4 years from now. KW has the chips for the deck that's for sure. I'd say we have a decent percentage of landing Adrian, not great and not bad. Now I will leave it the way it is, as now it's going from good stuff in here, to beating the dead horse.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 04:11 PM) Trudged through several parts of the first one but haven't seen it all the way through in 1 sitting. Understandable in my eyes.

He's definitely going to dip in some areas, and he will be a monster in other areas. That was a good find once again by qwerty and generally shack I agree with what your saying and KHP. At the end of the day. if we get Adrian, my god I would be giddy, and if we don't then hey.. next year when Joey Votto is available, I hope we go after him hard or two years from now, if another 1B emerges, or whatever FA same.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 01:29 AM) I think he realizes the position scarcity argument. Certainly GB is more valuable with his offensive production at 2b as compared to 3b, because his production will be greater relative to other 2b than it will be to other 3b. However, the real question is where do you draw the line? Is a .950 OPS 1b less valuable than a .800 OPS 2b? At some point, a team can only afford to put 9 guys on the lineup card, and the runs the 1b knocks in count just as much as those that the 2b knocks in. The question is, where is that line drawn? In the case of AGon, I think he far exceeds that line. His value as a young, productive, cheap run producer is great enough that the position scarcity argument doesn't really come into play. Ya I know what your saying here as well, but let's not pretend Adrian has done this alot. He put up a .950 OPS just this past year, on a s***ty SD team, with no help in that lineup. He'll be comming to a superior AL league, he won't get pitched around as much and he probably won't walk nearly as much. I would still take his career numbers on this team, but he's not Albert Pujols or even a young freak like Miguel Cabrera was (check that... still is) when he was traded to the AL putting up the godly numbers he did with the Marlins even with Hanley on that team. Not counting his rookie year, his first year in the AL he put up a .292/.349/.537/.887 which was a "bad" season for him playing 1B. Adrian will no doubt have to adjust, though his power is very real. You can find more solid 1B, DH, 3B etc.. in a FA market or a trade then you can 2B, SS, CF, barring Bora$ in our instance to solidify your overall lineup. You would see a Joey Votto for example in a trade rumor long before you'd see a Troy Tulowitski contracts aside. If we have a damn good 2B/SS and a damn good CF, I'll definitely take a solid/serviceable 3B/1B especially if your overall pitching is right. I'm just glad Adrian has a good glove which always helps especially to put Konerko at DH or trade bait.

:o

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 11:57 PM) Agree. AGon is a different kind of monster, and the idea that because he plays 1B he should not be valued as one of the most valuable players in baseball - which is exactly what he is - is absurd. Two years of Gonzalez costs $10.25M. That's less than Konerko makes next year and less than Linebrink makes over the next two. John Danks will probably make more than that in total through arb, same with Quentin. Gonzalez would be one of the cheapest regulars on our team and he'd be putting up MVP numbers, and yet he's supposed to have more diminished value because of this 1B nonsense. You might not like it, but that's the world of value in baseball economics especially at one of the easiest positions to fill as far a position player. No doubt Adrian is a beast and will be a tough sign in FA regardless in a couple years, but lets not even think about that for a second. I'll say an example and I still love the move the sox did here in the long run.. lets say years from now the sox want to trade Gordon Beckham. We'll say on "average" he puts up a .290/.350/.440/.800 line. You don't think the sox would get way more in terms of value at 2B than they would if he was playing 3B especially with those numbers? Sure some GMs would ask for more than what they should get (see Balt. GM/Brian Roberts) but some of the potential deals going through are way easier to see for a guy playing more up the middle or the outfield. (mostly CF) Utley would net more of a ransom more so than say.. a Kevin Youkilis (1B Youk) IMO. BTW.. I'll put every dime I got, barring an unforeseen extension, (which I highly doubt, though you never know) Joey Votto will be traded next year even though he's still in arb. I still believe the Reds will be having financial problems (stadium issues?) after this year. They need a s***load of buyouts and bargains in the market.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 11:48 PM) Or teaching him how to spell... Eh.. I prefer my slang or abbreviated terminologies alot more.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 11:37 PM) If i was the Nats i'd sign Prior to a minor league deal. Couldn't hurt to have him offering some incite to Strasburg. Eek... I hope he doesn't show him his follow thru or the towel drill....

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) Yeah, I think the Haren deal is as close as you can get. And he's a pitcher of course.. albeit.. a damn good one. Though usually those type of deals revolves more so on pitching a good ace mostly as pitchers are harder to come by, which is why I still commend KW on getting Peavy. Same as the Mets and Minaya basically robbing the Twins on netting Santana.

If I was Dombrowski... I would ask for more in return if he (Granderson) was going to my division as well, then I probably would for other teams outside the AL or division unless the quality of the spects your getting back is much harder to pass up..

Trading that second rounder for Gaines Adams might really be a make or break for Jerry Angelo. I'd feel alot better with this team and it's holes from the draft, if we actually had a second round pick. Not saying Jerry won't be trading to possibly obtain something.. but as of right now picking in the third round still isn't quite the same.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 10:24 PM) Ugh, Cutler sorta struggles on National Television (if you consider this game that). Just a terrible game for Cutler. He's terrible on night games especially. The day/night comparison of Cutler is scary to look at statistically. BTW.. the O-Line can go f*** themselves, and Turner. QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 10:24 PM) The 5th INT was just a piss poor throw by Cutler. so 2 INTs on the night basically. Agreed. In fact, most shouldn't make excuses for Jay in the red zone. About 65% of the turnovers are on him (the rest.. bad jobs by WR/TE/Olin Kruntz with his s***ty snaps). He's had more INTs in the red zone this year than Tom Brady has in his entire career. That is crazy to think about.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Maybe, maybe not. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a...onzalezs-walks/ Yea I figured the crappy team would inflate his OBP/BB rate, but good find A.J. I would still take a .360 OBP Gonzo if it means his OPS (and OPS+) will rise here, not to mention getting a Nick Johnson to help balance out the lineup with his discipline. ?? LF/RF Beckham 2B Gonzalez 1B Quentin RF/LF Johnson DH Rios CF (good bounce back year I'm banking) A.J. C Alexei SS Teahan 3B What a balance of the LH/RH combo in that lineup.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 01:00 PM) Assuming this is all true (which it isn't), why on earth would the White Sox absolutely murder their sparse organizational depth for a corner player? Gonzalez is a special player, but you're talking about giving up (what you consider -- which is extremely optimistic and foolhardy at best) a starting pitcher with no service time, a catcher who made drastic defensive strides and has the potential to be a .275/.400/.500 hitter, a starting 3B in Viciedo (which is a preposterously stupid evaluation right now), a plus defensive CF, and a good and cheap bullpen arm (something we're immune to, and something we need so we don't do stupid things like sign Scott Linebrink and trade Brandon Allen for Tony Pena). I get it: Gonzalez is a great player, but he's far too close to free agency to do a 7 for 1 (or 2, I guess, if you're into getting Heath Bell, whose value in the late innings probably doesn't surpass that of Hudson) sort of deal. Plus you want to give 2-3 of these guys away. Just sign Nick Johnson. Don't run the organization any further into the ground. If we're giving up the farm, it must be for a cheap, pre-arb up the middle player. Outstanding post BTW. Please post more. And I hope we can net both as a possible best case scenario. You get your OPS/OBP stud in Adrian and net your severe OBP guy in Nick to stick at DH. You can then trade Konerko for a couple of good spects (or pray like hell Sabain would trade Bumgarner for Kong. ) then your overall lineup is much, much improved not to mention your getting a s***load of RBI opportunities. But if all comes to worst.. I've been on the Nick Johnson bandwagon months ago when DBAH0 and I talked about it on AIM and still would like him. (I trust Herm as well, as he is IMO, one of the best in the buisness at his job)

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) Byron Scott just got the axe... Wow.. Just a year ago he was NBA Coach of the Year. Team starts off slow and he gets fired? New Orleans front office is not a very patient one is it?

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 09:39 AM) Disagree on Bowden being close to Hudson. Hudson is definitely better than that. Agree Buchholz is probably more attractive to the Padres than anything we could offer, but I still think Adrian is going to be a back-up plan for Boston, with King Felix being the #1 target. I do believe Boston has a great chance of winding up with one of these two. I mentioned this in another thread about suitors for Gonzalez, but watch out for Baltimore and Tampa Bay if they get involved. They could beat either us or the Red Sox, even without Baltimore including Jones/Wieters/Tillman, etc. Baltimore has the cash for an extension and they have been wanting to make a splash for a while. Well I did say you can give Huddy the slight edge in terms of overall status. Though it'll be hard to convine you on Bowden regardless cause I know your not a fan of his. I love the kid personally, but still think Huddy is a tad better in the upside. And remember KHP, quality over quantity. Some of those spects you listed are nice and all, but that doesn't mean most of them project any. SD would not even ask for 1/2 those names you listed IMO. I also wonder how much Reterford's trade value is actually, especially for an undraftee. Should be quite interesting though to say the least.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:54 AM) Ace, my brother, I expect more from you. Career years? Didn't the season start like 3 hours ago? I don't think any team has played 10 games yet. We are not in the same galaxy as the Lakers. Kobe alone makes this true. Doesn't mean we can't win. I think we beat the Shaq/Kobe Lakers in 2003 when they were 3-time defending champions. But Q used the word "showdown." A showdown occurs when two equal or near equal teams go at it. We're not even as good as the Atlanta Hawks. Let alone the Lakers. I'll agree that a showdown was a bit much, but you should also not be THAT surprised if we come close or even beat the Lakers. I thought we would get crush by the Spurs, Nuggets and pretty much lose badly to the Cavs but that has not happened, in fact I believe only Boston has really crushed us and that was the first game (or second) of the season. Anything can happen in the NBA, and for the Lakers, Gasol is a pretty damn big loss for them even though they are good enough to overcome that. The Lakers are damn good, but you are highly overrating them in comparison to us I'm saying. This is not even counting the fact that players have bad nights as well. Kobe will get his, even on a bad night.. but he won't have his Robin (Gasol) and Bynum doesn't scare me at all. Sure we could get crushed our damn selves here, but the talent level isn't "in the Galaxy" different between us.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:38 AM) If we can somehow obtain a 2nd quality SP prospect to combine with Hudson and Flowers, I think there is no doubt that we have the upper hand. SD has no future C in their system which makes Flowers the most attractive position player that either the Red Sox or us have. I just think we need that 2nd SP prospect which quite possibly could come from a Jenks trade. Meh.. they have Luis Exposito down there who looks very promising for them not to mention Kotteras, though he might be a throw in at this point though a pretty damn good throw in.. though you can say he was in the overrated category. That's why I said earlier the Sawks could probably crush us in a deal if it came down to a farm's race, but of course.. it also depends who they'd want to give up. Buchholz and Bowden is already a very attractive offer. Just for comparison's sake, you could say Hudson=Bowden in terms of upside/potential with giving Huddy a bit of an edge perhaps. We don't have a Clay Buchholz in our system. Now.. would the red sox want to actually give up that much for Adrian and if that's a need for them? That remains to be seen, but I'm sure they are definitely considering it, not to mention SD and Boston front office have alot of connections.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:35 AM) We beat the Spurs, thus, a showdown. In my mind at least. I agree. This team is much different then many including myself thought they'd be, especially defensively. Noah, Deng are basically having career years and Rose is still doing what he's doing not even 100% yet. No Gasol for the Lakers certainly hurts them even though they are still pretty deep. I expect it to be a very entertaining game, similar to the Nuggets game (though I don't think we'll see a Brad Miller non GW I'm banking).