Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 04:09 PM) I'm so tired of seeing this argument back and forth. Does anyone honestly not understand both sides of this f***ing argument yet? It just ends up being the same things said back and forth, from both sides, in countless threads throughout the site. Nope, I don't understand the side in which giving up Hudson for Jackson was a good move. Not saying I wouldn't have traded Hudson at all. But for career mediocrity? Failure on KW's part.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) How much is really out there that you would want in return for Danks. Sure you could go after someone's top prospects, but most likely if you trade Danks you want a young talented MLB player, like an Andre Either and such. But there are not that many of Either types out there. Not a big Ethier fan. His defense is deplorable.

QUOTE (Special K @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) Case in point Clayton Richard... Year Age Tm Lg W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP BK WP ERA+ WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB 2009 25 TOT MLB 9 5 .643 4.41 38 26 3 1 0 0 153.0 154 81 75 17 71 0 114 3 98 1.471 9.1 1.0 4.2 6.7 1.61 2010 26 SDP NL 14 9 .609 3.75 33 33 0 1 1 0 201.2 206 89 84 16 78 6 153 2 4 861 98 1.408 9.2 0.7 3.5 6.8 1.96 Compare his 2009 year where he played a majority w/ the Sox, and then his 2010 year where he played solely w/ the Padres. In 2009 he started about 10 less games, but he was on pace to give up the same amount of hits over the same amount of innings pitched, his WHIP's were relatively similar, and so were the k/9. However, not pitching at the cell translated into a dramatic drop off in homeruns and runs scored. This translated into a an ERA of almost .75 difference. Jackson has two solid seasons, not including what he did for us last year. He pitches better in the central, i'm not positive why he does, but if it's because he is more comfortable, or because Cooper helped him work a couple things out is fine with me, because we are getting the results. Everyone in the Sox organization thought Hudson was at-best a back of the rotation starter. That's why they were fine w/ letting him go because Jackson has much more upside, and has much filthier stuff. No doubt. Guys with unlimited upside always get traded four times in four years. You win.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 02:46 PM) Duh to the bold....obviously. I think people undervalue Danks and Quentin. Those two as a package can fetch us darn near anything, IMO. Or maybe I overvalue them- just don't think so. Oh no the thread's gonna fail. My pride...shattered. GMAFB Yes, you overvalue them. Carlos is an injury prone, all or nothing player who's been replacement level for the last two years. John Danks is good but he's not a stud. He's a tier below left-handed pitchers like Liriano, Price, Kershaw, Lester and Hamels. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade Danks for anything less than a unquestionably sick haul. But Votto? lol.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 01:25 PM) http://www.foxsportsohio.com/10/12/10/Reds...amp;feedID=3717 Fox Sports Ohio is suggesting the Reds might be in some kind of financial pickle with Votto heading to arbitration for the first time. I don't see it being an issue at all for them considering he's the MVP favorite. But for our sake we can hypothesize. They need to upgrade their SP, and with Harang likely going, they will have some cash and an open SP spot. Instead of spending money solely to lock up Votto, perhaps they'd like to spend that cash on Danks and Quentin. They upgrade their one deficient outfield spot and the other dominant starter they sorely needed this postseason. If you are the Reds GM, does this make them better? I think so. DH Tank? I like it if only because it shakes us up a bit in the middle. I love Paulie but maybe we need a new look. Makes us awesome...then we just go sign Cliff Lee for 2 expensive years, lose our pick and call it an offseason.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 11:37 PM) FIP of 3.78, xFIP of 4.18...yeah Gio Gonzalez is legit. His ERA will probably go up next year because he was pretty lucky on flyballs this year, but he's a very solid starter. Sure would be nice to have Gonzalez, Hudson, to go along with Sale, waiting in the wings to take over for Buehrle and to allow us to trade Danks for a sick package.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 11:26 PM) Well become a fan again. 200.2 IP, 15-9, 3.23 ERA, 171 K, .229 BAA. At best, #4? WTF? And you can't sit behind the NL argument with this one. Somebody will just use the, "Well, he pitches half his games in a pitchers park" card. Even though his ERA was a more than respectable 3.92 on the road with a nice 8.14 K/9. Nick f***ing Swisher. Pathetic.

Could be me just being a Yankee hater, but I like the Rangers in this one.

It's only the AFL, but I'll take any positive news I can get from any legitimate minor leaguer in the system.

I'd say the Rangers won the Lee trade. What a stud.

Lee is dealin' right now. Rays in trouble.

QUOTE (Brian @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 07:22 PM) Game 1 Sat as well? Friday

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 06:04 PM) Pretty sure I said in that post, I want more. I've also made clear in inumerable posts the specific things that pissed me off about this 2010 team - there was plenty to be mad about. I just want people to avoid hyperbole and jumping off a cliff over it. 2006-2007 is a good point, sort of, but let's see what the offseason brings. I'll say this for the 3rd time at least... how this team looks in April will depend mostly on money. If the team is allowed to increase payroll a little bit, then I think the "a little retooling and we will be fine" thing is pretty accurate. If it goes down, especially by a lot, then unless KW pulls about 4 rabbits out of his hat, 2011 will be a non-contending year. Between the Teahen extension (he's an awful baseball player), going into the season with a deplorable DH combination and the Jackson/Hudson trade, I've lost all faith/confidence I once had in KW.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 04:41 PM) They will still get a ridiculous amount of fans to each game because of tourism. Like it or not, Wrigley Field and Wrigleyville is a huge tourist draw and will continue to be no matter how crappy that team is. Even out of town Sox fans go out of there way to visit that s*** hole when they visit Chicago. All things being equal I agree (i.e. neither team being relevant). But winning > tourist attractions. If we had been able to capitalize off of 2005 with an extended run then I 100% believe we could've converted a big chunk of that retarded fanbase to our side..

QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 05:26 PM) I was just referring to a top 10 pick/potential franchise player although in hindsight when I wrote that I was thinking of Sale as a top 10 pick when he wasn't. My more general point was that we had a better season but only nominally and we don't even get the draft pick as consolation. I'm not one of the people who says "tank the season for draft position," but I think that's a valid thing to bring up when we're comparing what a difference of 9 wins means. It's like a few years ago when the Bears won some meaningless games at the end of the season and dropped down a couple slots in the draft - they would've taken Ryan Clady with that pick instead of Chris Williams. Them's the breaks though. Thank you. I want to slash my wrists when I hear, "Well, with everything that went wrong this year, we still won 88 games." "A little retooling and will be just fine". Just like after 2006. "Hey, our entire pitching staff fell apart and we still won 90 games." A full offseason of rest didn't help much in 2007.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 04:02 PM) It all matters. 1 championship - only, what, 3 other AL teams have that? 2 playoff appearances, or 3 if you count 2000 - how many there? Not sure, probably less than half. Wins? Probably still top 5. Years in contention late in the season? All but one that I recall, maybe two. Probably only a few teams there. Any way you look at it, the idea that this organization hasn't been successful under KW is hilarious to me. Do I want more? Of course I do! But let's have some perspective here. To each their own. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but you clearly have a group of fans (greg) that will forever be content with 2005. For me, 2005 raised the bar. I expect and want more because of 2005. 1 playoff appearance since then is unacceptable to me.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 04:34 PM) I thought they wanted to trade Flowers but were unwilling to part with Viciedo? This is true. KW's final offer from what I remember was Flowers/Jackson for Dunn.

QUOTE (Real @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 03:44 PM) 2009 version 2.0 How'd that work out for you, KenKen Twins wrap this up easily in 2011 if we're starting guys like Castro/Flowers, Quentin, and Viciedo I honestly think you can stick a fork in Flowers. At least as far as our organization is concerned. They weren't willing to deal him for two months of Dunn because they thought highly of him.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 03:42 PM) Factor in the lackluster performance of the Cubs now, and if the Sox had consistently gotten to the playoffs since they would be making a very strong push to be the ones running this town in baseball. The mirage that is Cubs baseball is fading in terms of popularity for the casual fan. I know about 20 former Cubs fans that said, "f*** it, I'm done" after the '08 playoff debacle. I honestly thought they we're going to win it all that year. The whole 'Lovable Loser' thing is played out. They're just losers now.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 03:35 PM) ProFootballTalk - Damn, I thought "relationship" meant something else. Whew!

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 03:36 PM) We win just enough to look good record-wise, but never enough to make the postseason. And we always win just enough to ensure we won't get a top 10 draft pick. But like greg said, it's better to win as much as you possibly can, even if you have no chance at the playoffs.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 03:34 PM) Are you talking about the Sox not selling out every night? If so, blame that on the team. They started off very well in 2006, and I believe the attendance was high while they were hot. Then they fell off of the face of the Earth, and had one of the worst seasons any of us had ever seen in 2007. They successfully killed any of the momentum they built with the World Series. Pretty much. Part of it is the undeniable fact we have a fickle, front-running fanbase. But the opportunity was there to blow right by the Cubs in terms of popularity, ect, and we've failed miserably.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) Trivia question... since 2000 when KW took over, which teams in the AL have won more games than the Sox? Which ones have gone to the playoffs more often? There are some of course, but I think you'll find its not all that many. You mean 2001 when KW took over? And yeah, caulfield likes to remind us plenty that we're in the top 5 or so in games won since then. Only numbers that matter for me are 2/10. Our playoff ratio in a division that doesn't feature the Yankees or Red Sox.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) Yeah, but right now they are able to afford all those players from their system because their payroll is at $140 million. They couldnt have traded those top prospects for Halladay if they couldnt afford to pay him $20 mil a year. I realize that they got to that level through their system, but now they are on a different level than most other teams and can make some financial moves that other NL teams can't, which is why I disagreed that the NL is a much more even playing field. I understand the extension part. But the Blue Jays weren't just going to give Halladay away. It all starts with the Phillies having the pieces the Jays wanted. Just like they had the pieces for Lee and Oswalt. And shockingly enough, according to respected minor league gurus like Keith Law, they still have a top 10-12ish system overall. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) Which for the record means they started out spending 20% more than we did before we won our world series. What's your point? I wasn't comparing the Phillies and Sox. There is no comparison, really. I was responding to littlehurt's claim that because of the Phillies current payroll that there is no level playing field in the NL. The Mets have been the NL's version of the Yankees for the last few years and they've done next to nothing outside of 2006. How about the Cubs? The Phillies built from within and have capitalized financially on this amazing run they're on right now. It's not just about looking at total payroll and coming to a conclusion that nobody can compete with them. At least not in this case.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 01:46 PM) I was talking about Pujols and his impending free agency after 2011. I see.