qwerty

QUOTE (Bern Danstein @ Dec 7, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) Jones on the juice, in shape and with healthy knees, was a borderline HOF. How sad what he's become now. I am all about 2nd chances, though, so if he wants to get in shape and compete for a starting job..... it's not as if Sox have anything in CF and RF right now (Quentin is a LF/DH, at this point in his career) that's set in stone. Meh. I think someone put a dakota fanning avatar up by accident for you. You might want to look into that.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 03:07 PM) Seriously, someone help me. Did they change the rules to free agent compensation and no one told me? From Rotoworld: Beltre is a type B free agent. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Read through their take on the player news over the past week, every one of them that mentions a Type B free agent also hints that the new team will lose a pick when they sign him. They're either completely incompetent over there or know something that we don't. Such as Miguel Olivo: Don't worry, they are just entirely out of their minds. We could easily do better than that. Pretty pathetic that they can get something as simple as that wrong... on a consistent basis. Btw, the system is gonna be entirely redone during the new agreement... the current one runs from 2007-2011.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 04:53 PM) Well Thornton's coming up on his age 33 season and Howell on his age 27. This way it doesn't look quite as drastic. I have no clue why i said howell was 25 being that he is 26. Simple mathematics must be beyond myself. I = t3h suX0rZ. Either way, a case can still be made for howell. Six years and a half years is too wide of a margin to simply discard.

To be fair thornton is 33 while on the other hand howell is merely 25. A case could be made for howell.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) Free Agency Arbitration Free Agency arbitration differs from reserve clause salary arbitration in that the player may ultimately choose which team controls his rights. When a player reaches free agency, there is a cutoff date by which his team can choose whether or not to offer him arbitration. If such an offer is made, it extends the exclusive negotiating window between the player and the team that held his rights. If no such offer is made, or if the player declines an offer of arbitration, the player cannot re-sign with that team until May 31 of the following season. Once a player accepts arbitration, his rights are assigned to that team for the next full season and a hearing is scheduled as part of the arbitration process (see below). As with reserve clause salary arbitration, a player and the offering team can avoid arbitration by agreeing to contract terms prior to the hearing. Otherwise the arbitration process moves forward. That is from sons of sam horn, which is outdated. It used to be this way (sorta) in the old collective bargaining agreement. Under the old rules, you had to sign your own free agents before the deadline to offer arbitration. If a team offered arbitration but the player declined they could still negotiate with that player until january 8th. If the two sides could still not come to an agreement by then, that player could not be resigned by that team until may 1st, not may 31st. If the team never offered arbitration they didn't even have a window to work with, and the earliest that player could be resigned was may 1st. A lot of times teams and players would agree that if the team offered arbitration the player would decline... to extend their negotiation period. Under the new cba even if arbitration is offered and declined... or not offered at all... the team and player can still negotiate throughout all of the off-season.

I hope i don't have to remind people the track record mlb trade rumors started off with. It used to be one of the least reliable places around. Tim dierkes does not have much, if any, room to talk.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 04:11 PM) If there was someone on the farm who could close, it would've been fun to do the following: Offer Dotel arb. If he gets paid elsewhere, take the compensation pick and keep Jenks If he does not get picked up by another team, you keep him and then trade Jenks for a prospect. Dotel would have accepted in roughly less than one second. You do not make a move just because you feel it will be fun to do so.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) In regards to the minor league championship and the major league championship, to make a statement that some people are more concerned with the with minor over the major is ridiculous. We all know that the major league team comes first. But the fact of the matter is that it is not somehow detrimental to the organization for one of the minor league teams to win their league. That's like saying it's detrimental to the organization for the minor leaguers to play in the AFL. It didn't hurt the Rays when in 2006-07 their AA team won the SL championship. I live in Birmingham and I'm a season ticket holder for the Barons, why wouldn't I want to see them win it all??? Why would I have a problem with that? I don't understand why someone attacks me for wanting to see my hometown team win a league title. I like David Cook, I want to see him succeed, why is that a problem for you or anybody else?? So what if he's not a prospect, that's not the point. I just don't get it, why am I bashed for liking David Cook? Qwerty, the problem is that you make all these broad generalizations and that's why everybody is questioning you. You're living and dying by these arbitrary thresholds, let it go and let things play out on their own. It's fine to have an opinion, but your blasting the rest of us for disagreeing. If you're saying whay you're saying about Omogrosso, then you're saying the same thing about Stefan Gartrell. He turns 26 in less than two months. It's not ridiculous in the slightest, i see it here and many other places on a pretty frequent basis. I also said it seems that way, not that they do indeed care more about minor league championships, it's how they present themselves. Clearly there is nothing wrong with winning a minor league championship, or for players to play in the AFL. Attack you for wanting your home team to win a title? Not in the slightest. You or anyone can wish for your hometown team to win it all, that's your prerogative. David cook was drafted at 22, reach winston salem at 24, and got no significant time in birmingham until age 26, he currently is 28. Cook was never highly touted or thought of (realistically speaking) as anything more than a back up outfielder, and that was several years ago already. You can like him all you please, but there is a reason why he has never made it, the dream is over. Broad generalizations? At age 26 you are no longer considered a prospect, even if you may very well still have the talent and ability to succeed? Common school of thought. The skill set a player posseses is not the end all be all, but at what age and level that players hones his talent is the tell all. Every team has a time table for their draftees for when they ideally see them moving up the ladder, it's no secret. Some are worked with less than others when they slip behind too far, injuries are less forgiving, but the point still stands. Northside and yourself seem to believe a player can crack and stick into the big leagues later than than the data suggests. I tend to go with the extensive amount of data that suggests otherwise. Blasting people? If only. Gartrell i think of even less than omogrosso (relievers have the most leeway out of any position), if he were to make it, which i highly doubt he does, it will not be with this organization. I'm having the same problem here that ranger is having in the adrian gonzalez thread. The game and how it works/runs has been this way for a very long time, and when you think about it, it's amazing how little things have changed over the years. Any examples of players that make it and stick when 26 or older in any era are in such a minority that it's kinda ridiculous. Aberrations. Aberrations. Aberrations. Nothing more. Truly though, i am done with this thread, and i'm staying out of this forum entirely until spring training. QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 28, 2009 -> 09:55 PM) Which teams are doing this? They all make moves for power arms past their expiration dates or whatever you would call them. Boston alone acquired Javy Lopez and David Aardsma from us. Javier lopez, who is different than javy lopez made the majors at 25 and has stuck around every year since. Aardsma cracked into the big leagues at 22 for 10.2 inning, was in the minors all of the next season, and has been made more than 25 appearances in every season from 2006, when he was 24 years old. Lopez also has a fastball velocity of 86.2 for his career, not exactly my definition of a power arm.

The spectrums in which tex and longshot both stand are pretty damn scary. Wow.

I believe there needs to be someone on the other end stopping you from doing what you are trying to accomplish, defense if you will. There is no one stopping you from your goal other than mother nature at times, and yourself... when it comes to golf, swimming, bowling, darts, running, bicycling, etc. There are some athletes in everything i just listed, but the numbers are very small in comparison to the big four sports. Athleticism goes hand in hand with a sport, if you are not athletic, well, you just don't have much of a chance. I think one reason people cannot distinguish the difference is because of the olympics. At one point they simply were known as the olympic games, and for good reason. More times than not something is just a game/competition/race but over time they have gotten the silly reputation to be something more than they are, likely due to popularity. No one would ever be able to convince me that fishing, gymnastics, shooting, archery, cheerleading are sports, no way no how. Though gymnasts vary from that group i mentioned because every single one of them are athletic. If anyone can look at this list that the olympic committee considers all to be sports, without letting out at least one laugh, something is likely not right with your head. http://www.olympic.org/en/content/Sports/

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 11:15 PM) yeah, it was the same with V for Vendetta, they produced, McTeigue directed. Their fingerprints are all over it and Speed Racer was just one big CG mess. Honestly, I am just about done with the movies that are 100 percent greenscreen. I am ready for Avatar to suck bigtime for that reason alone. I wasnt a big fan of 300 or Sin City for that reason, and SpeedRacer just gave me an ulcer. Their fingerprints are all over it as they wrote the screenplay for v for vendetta.

There should be a designated banker in monopoly.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) You are kind of making my point here - the back story of WHY they are where they are, at the age they are, is more important than the number itself. That's really all I was saying. Now certainly, you get into your late 20's, if you haven't broken through, then there is a 99.9% chance you won't, and for good reason. I'm just saying I think people get hung up on small age differences without seeing the bigger picture. The ones that matter, aka the teams higher ups, are the ones getting hung up on certain ages, i am certainly not the only one. It's been this way almost ever since the draft was implemented. Nothing is changing anytime soon. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, which is gonna have to be the case in this situation.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) I don't have the time to look it up, but how did Jones do against LHP last year? .218/.367/.395 in 150 plate appearances. He hit .210/.287/.506 against righties in 181 plate appearances.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) Age is key, but I don't agree it is AS key as some make it. I have always been in the school of thought that some organizations are focused on age to a point where they are significantly shrinking the pool of possible talent for themselves. And that makes no sense to me. If two players put up similar numbers in AA and AAA, for example, with similar physical and mental skill sets, but one is 22 in AAA while the other is 24, I don't think that should matter. What is more important is the reason WHY they are those ages. If one player was drafted two years after the other, and they spent the same time in the minors, then the difference between them is almost zero in my eyes (the exception to this being that one would have more "young" years in the majors than the other). Or, if one player is blocked by a superstar above them, that may be an indicator that they could be very effective, even if a couple years older than ideal. And then, yes, as you said, there are the late bloomer aberrations occasionally. I just think the focus on age is a bit overdone, more often than not, for no reason that has real consequence. The problem with that scenario is the fictional players that are 22 and 24 with similar physical and mental skill sets would be we don't know a thing about them. At what age were they drafted? 18-20-22? If and when did they struggle, at what stages, how many years of repeats? What are their flaws? There are way too many questions to be asked. More times than not, if a player is that good, but there is a player blocking him in the majors who looks to be that much superior for an extended period of time, and he is locked up for years to come, one of two things happen more times than not. Position change to fill another need, or he is traded to fill another need. QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) I don't believe that the vast majority of posters on this board have unrealistic expectations about minor league players. They just like to read about and talk about them. If not here, then where? We simply try to cover as many players as possible in as much detail as possible to give people who are interested a way to learn about the players. So, please don't feel the need to be a reality cop for minor league discussions. I have just as much of a right to give my say as anyone, if it's not what the majority agrees with, then so be it, if feathers get ruffled, that is not my problem to deal with, i call it how i see it. Btw, there definitely are some here that seem more concerned with a minor league championship, rather than a major league one. Thankfully the guy in charge seems to think entirely different. I'll come back to this thread in several months and update this with all the gems from this off-season. QUOTE (JPN366 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 12:12 PM) Oh dear, he's 25 and a pitcher. He must be done. Bobby Jenks was already 25 going on 26 when he got his first shot in the majors. Jenks was 24 going on 25 when he first came up with the sox is 2005. General consensus in a player is once a player turns 26 their prospect label in gone. As i stated, it's not say a player cannot still make it and defy the odds, but it's extremely rare Players who come up after that point and stick around for any significant amount of time are in the vast, vast minority. It's just fact, it's no hidden secret. Omogrosso just so happens to turn 26 not even one month into the major league season, pardon me for jumping the the conclusion five months prior and taking away his prospect title. QUOTE (JPN366 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 12:25 PM) I've always been impressed by Omogrosso. He has a bulldog mentality and a wicked fastball/slider combo that has the potential to be effective as a relief pitcher. He has the personality that would fit well being managed by Ozzie Guillen. He's not afraid to pitch inside or go after hitters. A perfect example, during a game this past season that he started, he threw inside to Reds prospect Todd Frazier. Frazier decided to act like a baby and make a scene. Brian just stared at him blankly while Frazier gesticulated wildly. When I saw the look on Brian's face, I knew the next pitch would plunk Frazier, and it did. So yes, I think Omogrosso has major potential, he has to stay healthy and all the other things that lead to success in the show. I don't understand the people who come on here and rail against certain minor leaguers stubbornly for no reason whatsoever. Insisting that they have no chance, but the fact of the matter remains, if there is potential, there is a chance for them to fully realize it. Being a prospect is not so black and white. There is plenty of gray area, it's not so cut and dry and if you have never seen a player in person, you have no legs to stand on in regards to your insistance that they suck. The future sox staff had this to say about omogrosso as recently as july 25th 2009. Interesting. If you feel that people ''rail against certain minor leaguers stubbornly for no reason whatsoever'' because they are in disagreement, well, i just don't know what to tell you. It's called an opinion, for discussions sake. No one has to take what i or anyone else says as gospel. I could care less if people forget about what they just read of mine one second later, because someone may care, and may be in agreement. I also personally never insisted omogrosso would not make it and stick, i just stated i feel it's unlikely, which i stand by. The sox have not exactly had a plethora of talent come up and stick around in the majors for me to think they will suddenly start developing their own home grown talent, especially an already aging (26 one month into the season) middle reliever, who cannot throw the ball over the plate with consistency.

So how many deaths this black friday? Any guesses?

The only way omogrosso sees any time in the majors is if the sox have to do their yearly call ups due to the desperation of no one on the big league roster being able to record outs. He would likely come up, get smoked, and never be seen or heard from again. If i went back through the years at all the candidates (relievers from the minors) that people have thrown out there... and i mean they truly believed they could make any sort of impact for the major league roster...well it would be amusing to say the least. Age is such a key factor, even for relievers, that i cannot believe so many think so little of it. Sure there are aberrations, but that is why they aberrations and nothing more. I cannot stress strong enough how much age matters in the grand scheme of things. Generally if you do not make the majors by a certain age/time frame that the organization has in mind, they move on and you are thrown onto the back burner. There is always new up and coming talent, so the room for error is rather small. Just one set back may be your last. I understand the farm has been depleted in recent years past, and that is why i feel some ''prospects'' here are giving unwarranted hype, but give me a break. If i knew absolutely nothing about the chicago white sox, and i stumbled upon soxtalk, i would think the major league roster was composed solely of minor league players.

Olney said this a couple hours ago. Doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot though if you ask me. Things like that generally have to be said, the padres cannot afford to look anymore desperate than they already are.

The list should completely have with who is type A, who is type B, and who isn't anything. I'm sure it would be beneficial for many here.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) I think Jenks is in the top 7 in baseball, and at times can be the best. All baseball players are streaky, this year Bobby had a bad year in terms of his overall performance. If I had to rank closers in terms of trade value: 1. Soria 2. Bell 3. Papelbon 4. Street 5. Broxton 6. Nathan 7. Bell 8. Jenks 9. Capps 10. Bailey By ability: 1. Rivera 2. Soria 3. Papelbon 4. Nathan 5. Street 6. Broxton 7. Hoffman 8. Jenks 9. Bell 10. Capps If you consider jenks to be one of the top seven closers in baseball why exactly would you rank him 8th when it comes to ability? Seems odd to me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) You and I disagree greatly about the definition of the number "3". ? I assume he meant peavy is the ace, buehrle, danks, and floyd are the 3 good starters, and garcia is garcia.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 10:55 AM) I'm not so sure. I certainly don't see him being an elite arm, but I think non-prospect is a bit harsh. He has tools that they have been trying to refine, and may or may not be successful. My larger point was, its obvious with the way the org has moved him up, that THEY see something in him. 25 and essentially no time above double a, while not being impressive in double A both times around...1.46 and 1.47 whip back to back seasons. He is a non-prospect. The sox are not fooling anyone (well maybe some) but not myself.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 09:22 AM) the difficulty level on Super Mario Bros Wii really jumps up. I tried to play multiplayer with my wife and kid for fun but they just cannot keep up. lol, I had to teach my wife "nintendo thumb" so she could run and jump at the same time I have heard from several different sources that the difficulty level is actually a little disappointing. You keep anticipating it to get tougher and tougher, and it really never peaks all too high. Then again the harder the better, that's how i like them. Games today i feel are made to be beaten 1-2-3, while they used to be made to beat you down, and make you wanna break s***. I feel very few games are worth my time, and none are worth a purchase, just to be beaten in a couple hours. I love a good challenge such a 6-2 in the original ninja gaiden on nes, that game is very mean. If you died on any of the boss stages, 6-4, 6-5, 7-1 all the way back to 6-1. It is not out of the ordinary for people to play 6-2 20+, 50+, hell 100+ times until beaten. They just don't make games like that anymore. Graphics has ruined what makes a video game a video game, as far as i am concerned. Btw, i would love to play the new super mario bros, as i am a large fan of side scrollers.

So when does someone suggest we trade for him?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) I think we should sign the Big Hurt for 2010 Sadly you are probably serious.