qwerty

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 10:23 AM) Prepare to be tag-teamed by scenario and JPN. I'm not one to buy into unwarranted prospect hype. Jpn will still think cook has a shot to be a major league player in his mid 30's, pretty certain anyway.

Yes, there is really no doubt about it. Thomas had 8 consecutive seasons with at least 20+ home runs, 100 rbi's, 100 runs scored, and 100 walks. In 7 consecutive years, he hit .300+ with 20+ home runs and at least 100 rbi's, 100 runs scored, and 100 walks... which in a majors league record. Ted williams did that feat 6 seasons in row. Thomas will get in rather easily.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 09:06 AM) If he really is healthy in ST, Omogrosso might be in the pen in 2010. His peripherals do not suggest he will ever be a factor in the majors, unless arm, after arm, after arm... etc... go down. He is a non prospect at this point, and should never be an option for a team trying to contend for a world series.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) Jim Rice was... - A 8 time All Star - A 2 time Silver Slugger Winner - A MVP Winner (1978) - Finished in the Top 5 for MVP, 6 times - Led his team to 2 World Series - In the 1990 World Series he hit .333 - Played in the Field - Career Avg .293 30HR 113RBI - Got into the HOF on his 15th and Final Try. Harold Baines was... - A 6 time All Star. - A 1 time Silver Slugger Winner. - Never Won a MVP. - Never Finished in the Top 5 for MVP. - Led his team to 1 World Series - In the 1986 World Series he hit .143 - Rarely played in the Field - Career Avg .283 22HR 93RBI Rice was a career .298 hitter... baines on the other had was a career .289 hitter.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 04:46 PM) Mets want Jack Cust? Should be a wild ride in the NL. They are connected to just about everyone once free agency hits every year... it should be no shock.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 10:59 AM) Daniel Cabrera, "The Human Cock-tease" would go right along with T-Pain, in terms of guys with flawless stuff and limited ability to control it. That being said, i'm all for it, assuming we give him a dance down in AAA first. The kid's stuff is to live and die for. Cabrera is nothing short of atrocious, he is a lost cause. There is no need to waste a roster spotanywherefor someone such as himself.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:36 AM) I agree, it was because of money owed, that's my point. The Sox have that opinion, but it still isn't defensible IMO because a sunk cost is a sunk cost. However, Ranger is on here reiterating the same things he said about Linebrink on the radio this last year, which is that Linebrink was playing because there was no one else to go to, and because there was no reason to expect prospects to perform better, and because in order for the Sox to have won they would have needed Linebrink to be good (very untrue), etc. I have a problem with that because it's wrong and a cop-out. The fans themselves understand that it's bulls*** to play a guy who isn't any good when you have better options available, no matter what the money situation is with that player, and if you're a radio host covering the team then you should be ballsy enough to admit that. Or even if you don't want to admit that over the air, at least don't come onto a Sox fan forum and chastise the fans over it again. He hasn't mentioned Linebrink specifically, but I know the callers he's alluding to because I heard many of them, and his responses were typically as ridiculous as the ones in this thread. But I do agree with you though, for better or worse the Sox are going to keep sending Linebrink out there, at least through 2010. From our view point, sure, a sunk cost is a sunk cost. But at the end of the day it's not our money to play with, it's theirs. It may be bulls*** like you say, but that is how the business of baseball is generallyrun, and the sox especially. You stick with the guy making the big bucks, unless that particular team is blown away by the talent of one of their up-and-comers, or can find a suitor to dump their garbage off on. It's just not as easy as it sounds. If the average fan can realize that linebrink is not the linebrink of yesteryear... what about all the higher ups behind the scenes around the league, not to mention the general managers? The sox do not have a stud in the wings and there is essentially no chance we could ever move him via a trade, therefore, linebrink. I feel the sox do not have much faith in their arms in the minors, because realistically, it's pretty bleak in regards to major league talent. None of them should be relied on to contribute in the slightest, other than hudson, who i feel could strive in the pen. There is no reason to beat a dead horse. It's as simple they are not gonna release him, pay him the money he is owed, and then watch someone who is likely a 4A pitcher (nunez, torres, williams, etc) come up and put up an era hovering around five with bad peripherals all around. If it were as simple as not having to pay linebrink a dime once released you may have a legitimate case, until then, not so much. b****ing and moaning about the linebrink situation will not get us anywhere (the fan base)... it is what it is. It's time to move on and for kw to make the other spots in the just pen that much stronger.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 11:56 PM) Second half numbers for relievers and extra pitchers: Linebrink: 23.1 IP 8.49 ERA 2.186 WHIP .377/.433/.651/1.084 Williams: 17.2 IP 4.58 ERA 1.42 WHIP .206/.354/.333/.688; .269/.444/.423/.868 vs. RH only Dotel: 27.2 IP 3.25 ERA 1.373 WHIP .282/.372/.482/.854 Pena: 34 IP 3.44 ERA 1.324 WHIP .268/.306/.420/.726 Thornton: 36 IP 3.00 ERA 1.056 WHIP .222/.269/.311/.580 Jenks: 22.1 IP 4.03 ERA 1.522 WHIP .279/.354/.442/.795 Carrasco: 38.2 IP 3.72 ERA 1.345 WHIP .279/.315/.370/.685 Nunez: 5.2 IP 9.53 ERA 2.118 WHIP .370/.414/.630/1.043 Torres: 28.1 IP 6.04 ERA 1.659 WHIP .286/.386/.476 /.862 Hudson: 18.2 IP 3.38 ERA 1.339 WHIP .225/.317/.394/.711 The only person even close to Linebrink Planet as far as sucktitude was Jhonny Nunez in ONLY 5.2 IP, and I have no reason to believe Nunez in more innings would have done as bad or worse since the sample size is so small and Nunez does have talent. Everyone else aside from Nunez was considerably better than Linebrink, again, even Williams vs. RH. In fact, check out the numbers the 2007 bullpen staff put up and you find several players who had their asses shipped to Triple-A shortly afterwards just like what would have been the case with Linebrink had he not been owed so much f***ing money. This pissed off the fans because they - and rightfully so - do NOT agree with the idea of s***ty player + owed lots of money = playing time in a division race operating philosophy. The fact that he's here and he's joking about these supposedly stupid callers pisses me off, because they're not stupid, they're actually very observant Sox fans who want the same treatment across the board for every s***ty player, cheap contract or not. Also on your comment about Linebrink coming in regularly in more stressful situations... In August and September, Linebrink made 19 appearances. I don't know what you'd define as a stressful situation, but of those 19 appearances, 11 were during games where there was a 2-run swing in the score or less, and in that span he gave up 12 earned runs. Is that supposed to be the norm or something? Also, of those remaining 8 appearances, 6 were in games with a 4-run or greater swing, including 4 with a 6+ swing. In those other 8 appearances Linebrink allowed 7 ER. In case you were also wondering about innings, on only two of those occasions in August and September he worked 1.2 IP, plus once he worked 1.1 IP, but every other outing he had was for an inning or less. So stressful or non-stressful, Linebrink's second half was one of the worst halves you'll see a reliever on this team produce. If this had been anyone else making less money that guy would have been gone. In short, you're making excuses to fit Rongey's garbage argument. Linebrink sucked ass and was by a wide margin the worst pitcher on our team in the second half yet we ran him out there. Jose Contreras' 2nd half numbers were actually quite a bit better than Linebrink's numbers as well. There was no excuse for running Linebrink out there and I see no reason to believe why any of those names I mentioned in the previous post could not have done better. You pretty much answered the reason yourself as to why linebrink was trotted out there. It's really as simple as coming down to the money. The excuse is the sox feel linebrink makes too much money to part ways with, whether you, myself, or anyone else agrees with their thought process. Afterall linebrink did make 4.5 last season with an additional 10.5 coming his way the next two seasons. There is no chance they dump him until next off-season, and that is still barring a significant increase in production. For better or worse, linebrink is still gonna get the ball in a white sox uniform. The linebrink signing was bad from the get go, and was quite unlike the sox, they sure as hell stumped me at the time.

Really? Not my sort of thing.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 19, 2009 -> 01:18 AM) Says the guy who's avatar is giving me the bird right now... Actually, I think you're one of our best posters Qwerty. Wish you did post more... I can be as blunt and vulgar as they come, but there is a time and a place for that. The best discussion here, all around for that matter, is in the chat room. It's too bad the chat crew members are looked down upon, because honestly, people are missing out. It can simply be a blast at times.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 19, 2009 -> 12:50 AM) Negativity can definitely get the best of discussions on message boards, especially on White Sox message boards. It's been fairly well-chronicled that White Sox fans are a pretty fickle bunch, so we've definitely seen that here. In fact, one of our better posters is actually nicknamed Mr. Pessimism or something to that effect. As for the groupthink concept, you're right on there as well. Often times, one or more of the more established posters goes one way with something and a big part of the group will follow. Sometimes there will even be two or three separate "camps" that an issue gets divided amongst. Then there are some guys who I think enjoy playing the role of Devil's Advocate, and will argue a point just to present a different perspective. We do have a lot of good debate here though. Some days are better than others, but as far as Chicago team sports goes, this is the best place I have seen for really good discussion. I've been mentioning this for the last several days now in different places, but I'll write it again here. There is some really solid stuff in the older Adrian Gonzalez thread that is amongst the best baseball debate I have seen here thus far this offseason. One more thing about negativity....you deal with so much of it doing the postgame shows that I'm sure you're pretty tired of it by the time you turn on your computer and come here...So I don't blame you for that. Truly it should be like that every day, but even better. We could do without the little old lady bickering (snark like comments) that goes on, which is the first thing someone resorts to when they don't know what else to say. Such a thing is truly what keeps me away for extended periods of time. I wish i was posting 20 plus times a day, rather than the 20 per month, if that. I always hope for the best, so maybe the tides shall turn this off-season.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 18, 2009 -> 06:30 PM) In a seven game series that restaurant would be outstanding though. Wait wah I think in our heart of hearts we know that Mark/Floyd/Danks isnt striking fear into another team come playoff time. Solid but I think we'd still be the underdog against whatever other divisional champ we'd face. You forgot peavy, which should make a rather large difference.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 18, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) Alomar has a great nose for the game. Good luck to him. As long as that luck doesn't beat the White Sox. I was just comparing alomar's nose to other players noses around the league. I would have given the edge to a bunch of others first, truth be told.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 10:24 PM) You're a really intelligent guy...you should definitely go. Such could be debated. Seriously though, ace is not that dumb.

Line-up protection has been debunked enough times, and it has been proven to be a factor in the most extreme of extreme cases. There is not a good very good percentage of theories that conclude line-up protection is a real factor, anyone can find such information at will, with a simple search, take a gander if you wish. To be honest i do not believe enough information has been collected at this point to determine for a matter of a fact if protection is a real thing. At this point it nearly everything suggests line-up protection is just a figment of our imagination. I most definitely sway towards the side that protection has a very minimal outcome, if any, but i don't write anything out, until it's definitively proven one way or another.

QUOTE (cornball @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 06:35 PM) Von Hayes, several years ago was a block buster trade. I believe it was 5:1, 5 prospects for Von Hayes. It was unheard of at the time and few players have been moved prior or since for that many prospects. But it could happen. Several years ago? You have a funny definition of the word several. December 9, 1982: Traded by the Cleveland Indians to the Philadelphia Phillies for Jay Baller, Julio Franco, Manny Trillo, George Vukovich and Jerry Willard.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 03:06 PM) Interesting stuff. Qwerty, I saw the comments about how protection theory has largely been debunked, but how much of the WAR is related to his OBP? I understand the value of Gonzalez being a .400 OBP guy versus a .360 OBP guy, but I am happy as a pig in slop if his HR numbers increase because of the park factors. If Gonzalez hits 48 homers for us because of US Cellular instead of the 40 he hit with the Padres, won't that more than make up for the reduction in walks he's taking because he isn't so easy to pitch around? Great reads on WAR and how it is calculated (simple man terms). WAR for hitters. WAR for pitchers. Value of obp in comparison to slugging... and it's not what many are led to believe. QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 03:09 PM) Yea I figured the crappy team would inflate his OBP/BB rate, but good find A.J. I would still take a .360 OBP Gonzo if it means his OPS (and OPS+) will rise here, not to mention getting a Nick Johnson to help balance out the lineup with his discipline. For whatever reason i feel the need to mention ops+ is a biased statistical tool. .......................................

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) Outstanding post BTW. Please post more. And I hope we can net both as a possible best case scenario. You get your OPS/OBP stud in Adrian and net your severe OBP guy in Nick to stick at DH. You can then trade Konerko for a couple of good spects (or pray like hell Sabain would trade Bumgarner for Kong. ) then your overall lineup is much, much improved not to mention your getting a s***load of RBI opportunities. But if all comes to worst.. I've been on the Nick Johnson bandwagon months ago when DBAH0 and I talked about it on AIM and still would like him. (I trust Herm as well, as he is IMO, one of the best in the buisness at his job) Maybe, maybe not. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a...onzalezs-walks/

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 12:56 AM) Please go to an NL team so we don't have to face yet another motivated guy to kick our ass. That won't happen, so go to Texas. The Rangers beat us always anyway. Would you root for dye if he went to another team in the division like you do for crede? Even when their at-bats can be the difference in a win or loss?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 12:19 AM) Well, this is something I often struggle with in my mind. Teahan is 28, like you said, with 5 years under his belt. Which means he has been a regular player in the major leagues since what, his age 24 season? He's basically been asked to develop on the fly, as he was traded to a team that wanted to see immediate dividends for its trade of Carlos Beltran. Now had Mark been with a team where he was blocked, or that had no need to rush him, and he had not come to the major leagues until he was 26, would he be viewed the same? If he were coming into his third or fourth major league season instead of his 6th, would people give him more of a break? I just wonder how he might have developed had he been put on a slower path, or if coming up at his age did indeed change his potential. I tend to believe being given the chance to succeed in the majors, while already on the cusp, far out weighs repeating a level for the sake of ''honing'' ones skill set. Being given the chance to succeed in the majors means they also have the opportunity to struggle. Struggling is not necessarily a bad thing, and in fact, many times it's a good thing, Mistakes are meant to be learned from. There should not be much better of a place than at the major league level, with the most talented and very smartest men around you whenever you are having a problem, or simply want to ask a question. The answer to your question about if he came into the league a couple years later would he be view differently is likely a yes. The general reason why a player is in the league at a younger age the majority of the time is because their skill set is cannot be denied, and they no longer have anything more to prove. Though i feel teahan was the polar opposite and was brought up due to the necessity of a player being needed on the major league rosters. Being brought up because of a necessity very well could have stunted his growth, but then again he put up his best season of his career, by far, in only his second season in the league. Truly, i couldn't tell you what his deal is. Teahan far from lit up the minors, and he was not nearly as highly touted as some are leading others to believe. Being in money ball doesn't mean very much to me. Once more, i hope he hits the s*** out of the ball, also wish he plays some defense that won't hurt us. If you ask me, asking for even one of those two is already asking a good deal, let alone both at once.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 11:44 PM) Well thank goodness for that. Seriously, not to poke fun at you, and this is obviously just your opinion, but there are some who think he still has a chance to fulfill some major potential, including some we must assume that work in the front office for our ballclub. Let's give him a chance before we make the determination... Teahan does already have five seasons under his belt, while in only one of those has his season amounted to much of anything offensively. In 2006 (his best season) he also played 21 less games than in any of his other four seasons, which was 109. Five years time span is a pretty damn good chunk of time to know what you have on your hands. That is not to say he cannot have a good, or even a very good season(s) before his career is over, it's just looking bleaker and bleaker, and time is just ticking for the 28 year old. I pretty much feel what you see is what you are gonna get out of teahan, which i of course would love to witness.

Wharris is a ginger i heard. Any truth to this?

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 08:37 PM) So we take our good defensive 1B and put him at DH so the under performing 36 year old RF can spend the season learning 1B because he doesn't want to DH? I have a huge problem with that idea. The team defense is s*** as is and probably got worse with Teahen taking over at 3B we can't have a guy learning on the job at 1B, we need someone who can pick the ball out of the dirt with consistency, Teahen and Ramirez will make his life a living hell. Dye's probable offensive production (~.820 OPS maybe) isn't worth the problems it would cause defensively. I'd take on Lyle Overbay's contract before I sign Dye to be my first baseman. Also you would have to take in account full time player naturally regresses once they are moved to the dh. A regressing offensive konerko would regress even further. Then we have to hope dye bounced backed to more respectable numbers . Such an idea should never put into action, and thankfully it won't. We still need two bats as far as i'm concerned (i think we will be pleasantly surprised this off-season) and dye is simply no longer in the equation.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) It looks like Orlando Hudson is going to win the NL Gold Glove at 2B which is just sad, there's no way in hell he's a better defender than Chase Utley. He's a top 3 player in the game and the best defensive player at his position in his league and he still can't win this stupid f***ing award. I love chase utley, under appreciated by way too many people. Most would say howard is the best on the team, and they are oh so wrong.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 12:25 PM) Just curious, where did you go to find those stats? It's pretty awesome that this stuff is counted. Highly recommend it to anyone who is more than just a casual baseball fan. http://www.knology.net/~johnfjarvis/stats.html