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PODSEDNIK IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAAAAAAAST. Grindy!!!

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ May 19, 2009 -> 07:01 PM) Carlos Gomez sucks at baseball He cannot hit worth a lick, but there is no denying he is a very damn good fielder.

I demand people are in the chat today... no excuses.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 19, 2009 -> 06:04 PM) Poreda is not on the same plane as both those guys, but Molto seemed to find damning evidence in that these mechanically flawed pitcher, both pitched spectacularly well before they got hurt. While injuries are certainly nothing to be shrugged over, I’d be more then pleased to see Poreda produce similar production even under a risk of injury that I don’t find inevitable. We should at least give him the benefit of a major league appearance before being bashing him on a message board. He never bashed him, simply stated his opinion. Huge difference. Also, people have suspected liriano was very susceptible to injury since he was just a 17 year old in the rookie league, it was far from a secret.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ May 18, 2009 -> 04:02 PM) The Sox are in a sticky situation. They raised my season ticket price 10% this past offseason. If 2007 and 2009 are both cublike futility, I am walking. They screwed us over last offseason with the playoff deposit. If they sell guys to save money they better give it back to me....I know they won't. The Ray Durham deals don't cut it. You go down with these guys or you get guys that are going to contribute to a greater degree than the Lillbridges and Jon Adkins the world. This isthe slope Kenny Williams has made for himself. What needs to happen right now..... Send down Fields, Getz and Lillibridge. Bring up Phillips, Anderson and give any infielder in the minors a shot who may be able to not strike out and can hit mediocore pitching. s*** trade for Ozuna or Willie Harris. KW got himself into a world of s***. Then reassign Greg Walker He did hit a home in his first major league at-bat after all...

Discuss.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Talk about f***ing pathetic.

f***ing thank you.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 17, 2009 -> 02:22 PM) When you start b****ing about the official scorer, you have officially run out of things to complain about. It was a valid complaint. There is no way mcdonald gets podsednik at first that deep in the hole.

QUOTE (kev211 @ May 17, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) I think it was just a stupid article in ESPN the mag that listed every possible way not just under their broad term. The joke is that this quiz used it. If a fair ball hits a runner, the base runner that got hit would be out, the hitter is then scored with a hit. They already covered a ''hit'' Fan obstruction is the very same thing as spectactor interferance, which is also a hit. They already covered a ''hit'' Failure to deliver a pitch within 20 seconds AKA illegal pitch is just a ball. If there is an illegal pitch say on a 3-2 pitch the batter it goes in the scorebook as a walk. A ''walk'' has already been covered.. A sac bunt which fails to advance a runner is a fielder's choice. Etc, etc, etc... They are just relisting another form of the only 8 ways to reach first... whether it be a hit, walk, fielders choice, etc.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ May 17, 2009 -> 10:30 AM) You can also ground into a double play to reach your way onto first. It is then ruled as a fielder's choice. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 17, 2009 -> 12:39 PM) ESPN did there thing, but I always thought there were 8 ways to get on base. ANd those above were them. Every other way they listed is not correct. They really should have done some homework. I except nothing other than that from espn.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 17, 2009 -> 02:21 AM) I came up with 7 off the top of my head so I assumed it was 8 and I missed something... Single Base on Balls IBB (wasn't sure if they deciphered) HBP Dropped Third-Strike Fielder's Choice Reached on Error Looking at the list now, I can't believe I didn't get catcher interference. We used to stand WAAAAY back in the batters box in high school if the catcher's arm was out there. The 8 ways are as follows. Hit. Walk. Hbp. Third strike not caught. Fielder's choice. Error. Catcher interference. Fielder obstruction.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 16, 2009 -> 05:01 AM) You are right and I am wrong. I defer to you. Aaron Rowand is a golden god. I guess I just missed the memo inducting him into the Hall of Fame or even according him a Gold Glove. There is no reason to defer a damn thing, but if you insist, so be it. I take it you did not want things to escalate, because if it did you may have not been able to post for a week, and i know you sure as hell wouldn't want to jeopardize that. I saw what you originally said at six or so in the morning. I sure wish you did not delete it, as i was absolutely dying to reply that haphazard, nonsensical, spew which resembled something of the sort of a post. You sure know how to let a guy down. P.S.- Do not bother with a response, as you will not be getting one back. You have honestly hurt my head enough this past off-season, i believe it's about time to stop reading what you have to say, or at the very least respond to what you have to say.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 15, 2009 -> 11:20 PM) Andruw Jones WAS a good outfielder before he gained about 50 pounds. I could care less what UZR or Zone Rating or any of that stuff says. It's one tool to use, but it's probably 33% accurate at best. I've had Major League Baseball Extra Innings package for most of that time and I've watched 60-120 Twins games every season when Hunter was in his prime. I'll rely on what I've watched over some stat geek who created a stat largely so he could get a job for a major league baseball team because he wasn't a good enough player probably to even get to the minor leagues. I'll let others decide...who here thinks that Aaron Rowand was a better defensive CFer than Torii Hunter from 2002-2004? This should be interesting. Don't be confused...UZR is a very flawed statistic for several reasons. Most importantly, it can vary DRASTICALLY from year to year. Jeter's UZR 2 years ago was -40, I believe. I'll take that cue to point out the other major flaw: the "zones" aren't as neat and specific as one might think. For example, defensivley a CF usually shifts fairly far toward left field for a righty pull hitter, in which case a line drive to right center is his "responsibility" that goes for a double or triple. Also, a CF in one year may have an abnormally large # of fly balls to his zones. Whereas a similar CF may have more line drives that will sail to one spot (the same spot that the lazy fly ball lands for CF #1) or flares that don't stay up long enough (whereas CF #1 may enjoy more air time on those balls). Parks, pitching staff, bad luck..it's all hard to factor in... Hence Jeter's defense got magically alot worse with a poor 3B, and magically alot better with A-Rod at 3B, who has more range and first step quickness than most 3B's. Another example: Check out Tejada's #'s after Chavez was no longer playing with him. Not to mention there so many other factors that one defensive stat can not account for : outs by virtue of a throw, bases saved by a player NOT taking an extra based due to reputation, etc. That being said, over the course of 3-5 years, UZR should balance out and make those things becomes less of a factor. This is why defense is so hard to quantify. Someone needs to mention this to "I Love Wang".... First of all, it is impossible to judge defense with numbers, unlike judging offense (a-la... batting average). There are TOO MANY HUMAN FACTORS involved to put numbers up against, to have a "rating" defensively. I also think there are way too many people married to the "numbers". The best defensive rating system, by far and away, is.... MY EYES! Watching things like body movements, footwork, and shoulder positioning help me determine who is capable of playing their position properly. I learned some of these defensive dynamics from a friend of mine that was scout for the Rockies. So I rely on what I see on the field, not on a calculator. And the thing that gets me, if this UZR was so great, how come the best rated players aren't walking away with the Gold Glove awards? For instance, I think 3 years ago, Jay Payton was the top rated centerfielder... Whoa!!! And now, Aaron Rowand, although I think he is a nice player, certainly to me, is not better than Jones, Hunter, Edmonds, or Logan (defensively). Are the numbers seeing something that the voters are not? Are the voters making the wrong choices on purpose? A lot of the defensive 'rankings' are also a matter of opinion. People think that Timo Perez was a good outfielder with a strong arm. I thought the opposite, just from watching him. The only thing he did well was get the ball away quickly. Bad jumps and very poor footwork. Another guy is people think is really good, but I think otherwise, is Garret Anderson. If you watch this guy enough, you will see that his jumps are below average and he NEVER throws the ball on target. This to me makes him a below average outfielder. Now, do I want him in my lineup? Sure do, his bat more than makes up for his lack of defense. But on the whole, that is what needs to be measured more than anything. Is the balance of the player worth having him in the lineup? If his bad defense is determined to be hurting the team more than his offense is helping, and the Yankees are caught in that predicament right now. Let's take a look at Bernie. If his production was, say, that of 2000 or 2001 (in that time frame +/- a year or 2) with 30 HR's and 110 RBI's, we may not be looking so hard for a centerfielder. But because Bernie's offense is no longer offsetting his defense, well, the hunt is on. from a nyfans.com thread One of the most ignorant things i have seen here in a long time. But i expected nothing else other than a response of this ilk. I admire your ability for being the most predictable person on the planet and not even being able to realize it. Quite hard to be that naive. Is the world still flat? I think some ''geek/s'' along the way realized that it in fact is not. What a moron to try and benefit society. We should have hung that buffoon. Sign up?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 15, 2009 -> 09:18 PM) I view every player around the league the very same equally. First and foremost i am a baseball fan, not a white sox fan. I love the white sox, but it does not compare to my overall love for the game. Possibly for the scenario you presented it holds true for a voluminous portion of baseball fans. Do not lump me in with the masses, as you have no clue what my thought process is. Many highly intelligent individuals would disagree with this assesment. Here is what mitchel lichtman, who is the creator of UZR, has to say. UZR just so happens to be what every single major league front office uses as the number one reference point defensively. Lichtman currently is in the cardinals front office. Torii hunter 2002- Inning- 1234.2 -0.5 UZR 0 UZR/150 2003- Innings- 1299.1 13.2 UZR 19 UZR/150 2004- Innings- 1100.0 -0.1 UZR -0.2 UZR/150 2005- Innings- 813.1 2.6 UZR 4.5 UZR/150 2006- Innings- 1232.1 -10.9 UZR -11.6 UZR/150 2007- Innings- 1314.2 -6.0 UZR -6.5 UZR/150 2008- Innings- 1193.1 -11.5 UZR -13.0 UZR/150 ================================================================================ Aaron rowand 2002- Innings- 601.2 6.0 UZR 12.4 UZR/150 2003- Innings- 378.2 6.0 UZR 26.3 UZR/150 2004- Innings- 1018.2 13.3 UZR 19.0 UZR/150 2005- Innings- 1367.2 16.1 UZR 18.7 UZR/150 2006- Innings- 900.2 1.6 UZR 2.3 UZR/150 2007 Innings- 1373.2 10.3 UZR 10.0 UZR/150 2008 Innings- 1275.1 -6.5 UZR -6.1 UZR/150 As i said, they are not comprable, and that would go for the other less quality metrics out there also. Rowand gets to balls standing up that hunter has to dive for. Andruw jones gets to balls standing up that both hunter and rowand would have to dive for. Anytime you see andruw jones diving for a ball, well, that would be a double past literally anyone else in the league anyone in the entire major leagues. @ the bold. Talk about overstating something due to fandom.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 15, 2009 -> 04:34 PM) Hunter was better than Rowand (clearly) until about 3 years ago. They're probably even now, although age is catching a bit with Rowand as well. Anderson's better than Rowand or Hunter, but neither Rowand nor Anderson are/were better than Hunter in his prime on turf. The bold is entirely false. There is nothing clear about it. The second line is essentially as false as the first. The third line baffles me because it just is not a fact, and by the third line i mean saying rowand wasn't a better defender during ''hunter's'' prime. You do not believe in metrics and go strickly with what you see with your eyes. Others may reply to me with '' well you are only looking at metrics''. This would be the furthest from the case. I go with visual, factual, and knowledge... combined. Then, and only then, is when i base my decision.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 14, 2009 -> 09:48 AM) 7/10, and question 3 is just stupid and doesn't reflect any actual baseball knowledge. If they wanted to go obscure rules, then ask about one of them specifically. I read this thread without participating in that lame quiz. There is no way anyone could have gotten all ten ''right'' Those obscure rules you mentioned are in no way rules in the first place. 23 is far from the right number of ways to reach first base. A walk and intentional walk are the very same thing. ''If a game is suspended with a runner on first and that player is traded prior to the makeup, another player can take his place'' is most definitely incorrect... that player would just be classified as a pinch runner. Fielders interference? Fielders do not interfer, though they do obstruct. Spectator interference? Goes into the boxscore as hit. Etc, etc, etc.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 15, 2009 -> 02:42 PM) From what I've heard, Hamilton changed his stroke on his own omission after he had that rough 2nd half last year. He did. Hamilton got rid of his toe tap at the beginning of his swing, roughly ten days into the season hamilton went to jarimillo to help him get back his old swing. Oops.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 15, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) have you been watching him play? He has not been good for three years now, and his arm has taken a s*** on him. People will say ''omg omg, look at all those diving plays!!''. Diving plays generally only result due to less than good jumps and or routes to the ball. Simply put, rowand>> hunter defensively from the day he was brought up until now. There really is no comparison which is better of the two.

Frustration is the only reason dye was pissed and that ozzie would actually come out, that was a damn good pitch by lee to get dye.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2009 -> 11:35 AM) Jordan has now slumped to .429 as we speak. I'm with Harrelson, Birmingham is a lot more interesting than the major league club. I'm sure there is a birmingham forum somewhere...

Typical lillisuck eh?

Very cool.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 12, 2009 -> 11:37 PM) Floyd and Fields are making me look really bad Ramirez is not exactly making you look any better either.