BamaDoc

A few of us in the minors threads noticed Collins was not batting against lefties so not surprising when I checked he is at .095 with 2 walks and 11ks in 23PA. Obviously small sample size. But even counting his terrible stretch when first brought up he is now OPSing above .800 over righties in again a small small sample size. Two points, why aren't our legitimate prospects learning/given the chance to bat in unfavorable situations in the minors? He may at worst be a decent platoon bat which in my previous posts I discussed our league worst DH WAR. Wouldn't give him a thing but I would put him in the mix.

Where has this Palka been?

Thanks for comments on part one: State of Sox. Part two begins. With credit to baseball reference , here is our current 40 man roster. The basic rules for the Rule 5 draft in December are that Free Agents are removed and you have to add back players currently on the MLB 60 day DL. Sox have three 60 Day DL they would keep: Rodon, Burr, and Kopech. Free Agent subtractions of Jay, Santiago, Detwiler, and Nova keep you at 40 as Jay on 60 day DL. I expect (who doesn't) the Sox to resign Abreu so I will not open a spot. Castillos option should be bought out so 39. do DO Pitcher * 29 R R 5' 10" 200 Dec 31, 1989 2007 2 40 Reynaldo Lopez do DO Pitcher * 25 R R 6' 1" 200 Jan 4, 1994 2012 3 43 Evan Marshall us US Pitcher * 29 R R 6' 2" 225 Apr 18, 1990 2011 4 51 Carson Fulmer us US Pitcher * 25 R R 6' 0" 195 Dec 13, 1993 2013 5 57 Jace Fry us US Pitcher * 25 L L 6' 1" 190 Jul 9, 1993 2013 6 54 Ross Detwiler us US Pitcher * 33 R L 6' 5" 210 Mar 6, 1986 2007 7 46 Ivan Nova do DO Pitcher * 32 R R 6' 5" 250 Jan 12, 1987 2006 8 60 Jimmy Cordero do DO Pitcher * 27 R R 6' 4" 222 Oct 19, 1991 2012 9 64 Josh Osich us US Pitcher * 30 L L 6' 3" 232 Sep 3, 1988 2012 10 48 Alex Colome do DO Pitcher * 30 R R 6' 1" 220 Dec 31, 1988 2007 11 84 Dylan Cease us US Pitcher * 23 R R 6' 2" 190 Dec 28, 1995 2015 12 66 Jose Ruiz ve VE Pitcher * 24 R R 6' 1" 190 Oct 21, 1994 2012 13 39 Aaron Bummer us US Pitcher * 25 L L 6' 3" 200 Sep 21, 1993 2013 14 53 Hector Santiago us US Pitcher * 31 R L 6' 0" 215 Dec 16, 1987 2007 15 58 Manny Banuelos mx MX Pitcher * 28 R L 5' 10" 215 Mar 13, 1991 2008 16 18 Daniel Palka us US Position * 27 L L 6' 2" 220 Oct 28, 1991 2013 17 74 Eloy Jimenez do DO Position * 22 R R 6' 4" 205 Nov 27, 1996 2014 18 32 Matt Skole us US Position * 29 L R 6' 4" 220 Jul 30, 1989 2011 19 33 James McCann us US Position * 29 R R 6' 3" 225 Jun 13, 1990 2011 20 5 Yolmer Sanchez ve VE Position * 27 S R 5' 11" 185 Jun 29, 1992 2009 21 20 Danny Mendick us US Position * 25 R R 5' 10" 189 Sep 28, 1993 2014 22 10 Yoan Moncada cu CU Position * 24 S R 6' 2" 205 May 27, 1995 2012 23 79 Jose Abreu cu CU Position * 32 R R 6' 3" 255 Jan 29, 1987 2003 24 49 Ryan Cordell us US Position * 27 R R 6' 4" 195 Mar 31, 1992 2013 25 21 Welington Castillo do DO Position * 32 R R 5' 10" 220 Apr 24, 1987 2006 26 15 Adam Engel us US Position * 27 R R 6' 2" 210 Dec 9, 1991 2013 27 7 Tim Anderson us US Position * 26 R R 6' 1" 185 Jun 23, 1993 2013 28 28 Leury Garcia do DO Position * 28 S R 5' 8" 180 Mar 18, 1991 2008 29 17 Ryan Goins us US Position * 31 L R 5' 10" 180 Feb 13, 1988 2009 30 38 Zack Collins us US Position * 24 L R 6' 3" 220 Feb 6, 1995 2014 31 27 Lucas Giolito us US Pitcher 10-day 24 R R 6' 6" 245 Jul 14, 1994 2012 32 68 Dylan Covey us US Pitcher 10-day 27 R R 6' 1" 220 Aug 14, 1991 2013 33 50 Thyago Vieira br BR Pitcher 25 R R 6' 2" 210 Jul 1, 1993 2011 34 52 Ian Hamilton us US Pitcher 24 R R 6' 0" 200 Jun 16, 1995 2014 35 53 Caleb Frare us US Pitcher 25 L L 6' 1" 210 Jul 8, 1993 2012 36 62 Kodi Medeiros us US Pitcher 23 L L 6' 2" 205 May 25, 1996 2014 37 73 Luis Alexander Basabe ve VE Position 22 S R 6' 0" 160 Aug 26, 1996 2013 38 77 Micker Adolfo do DO Position 22 R R 6' 4" 255 Sep 11, 1996 2014 39 22 Charlie Tilson us US Position 26 L L 6' 0" 185 Dec 2, 1992 2011 40 59 Seby Zavala us US Position 25 R R 5' 11" 215 Aug 28, 1993 2014 Rk Uni Name Okay, that part was easy. Older draftees from 2016 are eligible to be lost and younger players, often international signings get one more year so 2015. Roster resource via Fangraphs has some nice depth charts indicating many of these players. https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/white-sox Some are easier to project dropping and again it is someones career so I am refraining from "they suck" commentary. Many who are dropped can still be invited to spring training and we offer a easier way back to MLB as Rodon and I think Burr will go back on the 60 day at the start of the season allowing them a way onto the team without requiring someone being dropped. So I bolded 8 players who could be dropped/outrighted. That is 31 spots. Some are arguable. I am not totally sure how the upcoming rule of a reliever must finish the inning or pitch to three batters will affect everything but it is why I drop Osich who held lefties to a OBP of .561 but RH torched him to .970. I expect Yolmer to sign a multi year deal at a cut from this years salary or be non tendered so that may be another. A few of these guys can be either one or other. Engel with his annual hot streak, I took over Cordell and Tilson. You could add a pitcher and drop Vieira, Ruiz, Frare, or Meideros. So I look at guys who need to be added. Dunning, Burdi, Lambert, Flores on the pitching side. Thompson, Matt Foster, Hansen are relievers who I would hope to protect. Spencer Adams was not protected last year and hurt this year so I don't protect. Position players: Rutherford needs protection, I wish they had promoted Mercedes, I don't know what they will do with him. Forbes, Zangari, Nunez on the position side I hope might become something but doubt they protect. Pitchers like Minaya, Kubat, Turner, Martinez, Paulino, Long are doubtful. My sleeper is Lefty Jacob Lindgren, former 2nd round pick who made it to the majors one year after being drafted. Then got hurt, missed two years and we took a flyer. Obviously had talent was in A+ with us and had 1.53 ERA. Actually had 13 ip vs righties with 15/1 k/w ratio and they hit .163 Actually lefties hit him well but would someone take a chance on cheap controllable guy who was a definite prospect? With a 26 man roster I think with the shortage of pitching I might take that flyer. If it doesn't work you lose 25 k. Anyway that is about ten to add so it seems doable until you start adding in free agent signings. Most of us are thinking, beyond Abreu 3-5 so it does begin to matter. Had our fringe players actually played decent, you can see where this would have been really tough. As it is, I expect us to probably have someone drafted this year and if they succeed we will complain "how could that happen". So take a look and tell me what you would do. Cut a lot more of the current 40 to protect prospects or hope no one wants the prospects? Does struggling your first couple times up mean you won't succeed later? Are you a learning curve or instant success person? Hopefully, ala Yankees etc, leading up to the draft you can trade your fringe players for guys who don't require protection or do 2:1 deals to help roster management but it is tighter than I expected after diving deeper.

Several of our DSL guys getting a taste of baseball in america. Bailey, Laureano, lot of recent draft picks as well. Hansen the oldest guy as they continue to try to fix. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2019-chicago-white-sox-instructional-league-roster/

I think it may be a mutual option. 11 million for what he produced is pretty solid and I agree he may not want to go through FA again. I expect a sweetner for him to accept the 1/11 by adding another year and maybe an option on top of that.

I looked it up 3.1 PA per scheduled game or 502. He is beyond that now. Would you rest a day before end of season so no stigma of not playing last game?

Our lack of depth is impressive

shoulder

Rather than a bunch of great teams, I think it speaks to a lot of previous middling teams doing the full scale rebuild.

Completely agree. The days of guys like Fisk seem to be gone like starting pitchers getting complete games. 37 year old Molina caught all 19 innings last night for Cards! Cap tip to him and yes he is not catching the day game today. They look like Ozzies sunday lineup lol.

Think Engel having annual streak that makes you think maybe..... Not sure of the quality of pitchers he has faced. I did look at his splits and even with hot streak last 49ab 17k

I like the cutter idea but with our team use of it, I bet it has been tried if not we have the teacher. I would think Gio and/or our staff could help with change. Sometimes guys need to hear it from someone different. Everyone talks about focus issues. Maybe adding more stuff in complicates things and makes him focus more?

I have some ideas I haven't seen mentioned that I think could help. Gotta do my 40 man rosterbation first.

I was waiting for the season to wind down and work delayed me from starting what will be several posts of where we are, 40 man, and what to do. thxfrthmmrs beat me to some of this so tip of the cap to him. The 2019 WS were bad. In many ways we were worse than out actual record. In other threads some state that many who contributed to our suckiness will be gone but they are only partially correct. In order to go forward, I think we realistically need to see where we are, identify the good and bad in order to develop a plan forward. Hopefully our front office is doing this constantly. I am using baseball reference(BR) and fan graphs(FG) data. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/team_compare.cgi?request=1&year=2019&lg=MLB&stat=WAR According to WAR of playoff teams, we are 15-20 WAR from being a contender. You can argue some of these stats may not be the best to use but anyway..... Something good: I was surprised to see that by WAR, we had the sixth best bullpen (BR). Unfortunately we had the worst SO/W . While our GB% was second best, we were league best in lowest hard hit ball percentage. (FG) This was mentioned in a Athletic article that while most of our starters are using the high fastball approach, many of our relievers are going for grounders. Our HR rate was a little better than average so pitching down didn't kill us. Conversely for SIERRA people, we were the worst. My take away is it is not as bad as I thought. Think pitching is bad all over baseball. Could certainly improve but a lot of young options also are on the way. Bad: Our batters should never see a strike, well almost never. We walk at the lowest rate in baseball and strikeout nearly at the highest yielding the worst W/SO ratio in baseball. That includes NL teams who bat pitchers. We swing at a higher rate at balls than any team but the Tigers and we make contact with those pitches less than anyone but the Royals. While some of this is our scrubs, many are significant players. You can tolerate this if a player makes up for it in another area like power leading to a decent OPS or WRC. However we have Leury not walking, slugging .374 while striking out 136 times. Yolmer slugging .322 with 112ks . McCann 135 k 28.8% rate , Abreu 150k . Moncada improved greatly but still 150k and Eloy 132 though both made up for it in other ways and you hope they improve further. In a weird stat, we have the highest batting average on balls in play. Unfortunately this is a stat which often portends regression. Anderson and Moncada are near .400. McCann is way above his norm at .363. If those three regress next year you are probably needing even more added WAR to contend. By WAR, we have the second worst overall outfield. Especially in RF as all are aware by now. Eloy could improve his defense as well as settle in even better at the plate(remember when Hahn said he didn't come up because they wanted him to improve defensively? Sure you do.). Robert should eventually fix centerfield though I think he will get a steady diet of sliders off the plate away and fastballs up out of the zone. He hopefully doesn't bite but he has almost always had a pretty low walk rate. RF I will get to in another post of what to do to fix but currently I don't think this years options will be the answer or return. We have by WAR the worst DH combos in baseball. Again the answer probably comes from the outside although if Abreu is back, which we all expect the team to do, hopefully more time is spent at DH. Despite Jose's 121 RBI and offensive contributions, his glove is still still still -1+ WAR. He needs more time at DH and who knows how much the infield defense/errors improve with a better glove. SP: Giolito huge plus. Hopefully holds steady but not sure you can expect 5+ WAR. Lopez starts. Reinforcements on the way from injury though may not begin the year with the big club. Cease depending on spring training and you probably need a couple more. Previewing, one or two free agents you can pencil in for awhile. One swing and possibly one you sign could be flippable as people get healthy. Nova gets some consideration. More in later posts. So thats kind of the review. We have real issues and a lot of solutions to come from outside. We have earned the draft pick we get. There are so many issues I am thinking .500 maybe before contending seriously unless things break right where players don't regress, others improve, acquisitions perform(that would be a change) and good health(would really be nice). The good news is there are a lot of guys who got there chance during the rebuild and can pretty safely be moved on from but I will get to that more in the 40 man discussion.

Focus has been a repeated issue mentioned all year. He has shown flashes of brilliance where he has been effective and still hitting 97-98 late in games. If improved focus leads to improved mechanics/repeatability then he could improve. He is still young and maturing. I doubt he has a night and day switch like Gio. He had a longer bad stretch, then a good stretch and finishing disappointing. You hope for more consistency. Shorten the length of bad to ok and still have a real good stretch and you have a valuable pitcher. The one thing he offers which can't be underestimated to this team is innings. He takes his turn and generally pitches a decent amount of innings. When we have guys who can't get out of the first it helps.

In 2000 PA Mazara has 1.8 career WAR. Comparison, Avisail Garcia in about 3k PA has 7 WAR. I agree with you about anything is an improvement over what we have out there. If we could get him for what you propose, I would consider it but hope for better. The original poster stole some of my thunder. Working on what will be several long posts/threads and our team numbers are shockingly bad. Spoiler pitching ain't great either. The game has changed to where people don't care about strikeouts due to the launch angle homer revolution. The problem is we have guys like Yolmer 2HR/111k and Leury 7HR/135 k who are starters. FYI McCann 133k, Abreu 148, Anderson 105, Yoan 148(sig improvement), Eloy 130. Fun fact on Engle (209 ab/ 72k) If he could hit at his strikeout rate he would be ahead of Anderson at .344 in the batting race! I can't wait for Madrigal who gets pissed off/embarassed any time he strikes out. Frank Thomas has not been retired that long. He struck out over a hundred times in a year three times in 19 years (max 115). Eight years more walks than K's. Career walk rate added .118 to OBP. We should really evaluate a two strike approach for some of these guys and especially developmentally.

Legitimate question: Why is anyone fascinated with Mazara? Baseball reference stats. .7 WAR. He is a slightly below league avg bat with negative defense. He is left-handed which is a positive but his walk rate has roughly gone from .06 to .05 to .04 which is exactly what we don't need. I see a poor glove, not great bat who strikes out a lot and doesn't walk. Also, you have to give up something for him. Calhoun 2.5 WAR, better defense, walks at nearly.09 rate, also lefty. OPS better than league avg 112. negative k's more. One year left on deal at 14 million. Angels up against spending limits so may get for salary relief as they have a high prospect ready. Prior to hot streak there was talk he could be released for $ savings.

Mmmmmmmm. Their tears taste sweet! On the other hand, I can only imagine some of our posters if we lost a meaningful game.

I will agree he doesn't need to say it. However we gripe at coach speak yet b**** when they give honest comments. Can't win.

Again there is more to article than the quote. He's not wrong. The negative people are really going to freak next year when we struggle. Even if we do a lot of right things this offseason, we may not get the playoffs. If anybody noticed there are some other teams out there that are good and aren't going to give us anything. Rebuilds don't come with guarantees. Hell when the scrubs won their World Series, I thought they would get multiple more certainly one and yet they haven't.

Don't disagree. There was also an article on how he is a role model to many of the non-English speaking guys starting out who are participating in our educational programs.

per baseball reference his WAR has declined from 3.5 to 2.6 to 1.8 . His salary is 4.6 million and if he goes through arbitration, he would get a raise which is why he is a likely non tender. He sees the writing on the wall with Madrigal as the eventual starter and cheaper utility guys. If he really wants to stay, I wonder if a three year deal for 9-10 million would give him enough security to stay? Would that be worth doing?

In somewhat of a back to the original post, what if the scrubs part ways with Maddon?

The original post? Somehow this morphed into "what are your expectations for/during year three of the rebuild and (like nearly every thread) management sucks". Night all. I give up

There is more in the article then I felt comfortable quoting since it is a pay site. I had a different take after reading the entirety of the article. Dang people sorry I tried to bring information to a year long discussion where most people are "reading between the lines" or "interpreting". Read it all before jumping to conclusions unless you are determined to keep your narratives. Are we league leaders, I doubt it, but I was happy to get some look at what they are doing and happy we are not ignoring technology. At the risk of copying to much another Gio quote I’m learning all this stuff from Has and Coop. Whereas maybe a couple years ago I would talk to (Danny) Farquhar, look things up on my own but I didn’t really know what I was looking at. Now it’s all in-house.”