southsideirish71

Kenny's Response. He talked to Boras and Boras said no.

QUOTE(almagest @ Feb 16, 2008 -> 01:39 AM) Seems like someone reports 25 lbs lighter to camp every year. Didn't Uribe already do this like 5 times? Uribe and his feet haven't made sight of each other in a few years so I dont know if he fits the 25 pounds down comment. take a look at his pics when he was with the rockies, and take a look at him now. Its like comparing the Panther's head to Sosa and his gigantic head.

QUOTE(JFields27 @ Feb 16, 2008 -> 10:33 AM) :gosox1: also i hope Uribe tells Ozzie that "being here would be bad for the club" then he can run off to KW and tell him to slice him! The only demands that will be made will be from his belly screaming for more cakes and pie. Cakes and Pie will wind up as our 2nd baseman because of the "he can carry us" factor. I wonder however who can carry him.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 07:13 PM) I wouldn't be surprised at all if they focused hard on the payments and not on the total value. That's what I was instructed to do when I was in sales, that's what the Salesperson tried to do with me when I bought my Civic, etc. But when you bought your Civic the price was on the sticker on the side of the car. Each car had the price laid out. And even if they went to the payments. How much are the payments for 70k left on a 5 year note. You knew the price of the car when you bought it. And so did she.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 05:36 PM) When she told the salesperson her income, he would have known she would not qualify. The only way for him to make that sales was to A. Get her to write down what she believed she would be earning as soon as she was off disability and B. To then change the number even higher after she signed the contract But if you are stupid enough to go along with the salesperson, you deserve what you get. A.) If she doesnt realize that 100k car is a lot of money and while on disability its not wise then she is at fault as well. B.) If they told her the car was 30k and then it became 100k then sure. But she knew the price.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 04:09 PM) And since we're all pointing at the thing that bugs us the most, I'll point again at the fact that someone approved this loan without bothering to actually verify the income, thus allowing the fraud to take place due to simple laziness or due to that no longer being the job of anyone in the system. The agencies who hand out loans to people who cannot possibly afford them are the worst type of scum. They should be held responsible and in some cases prosecuted.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) Seriously, I am so aggravated at the sales scum, I have little aggravation left for her. I seem to be the only one here who believes people can be a victim of a con and a smooth talking con man. If people always did what they knew, there would be no cons, no "morning after regrets", etc. I believe people can be led into messes like this. Someone coming off disability may have been especially vulnerable. But the "kaperbole" is waaay more fun Sales scum is out there. I have no problem throwing venom in their direction. A person can be lead astray if say they are misrepresented on the price of the vehicle. My problem is when someone knows the price of an item and then cannot figure out that its expensive. A condo might cost 100k and yet you have 30 years to pay that note off not the 5 she probably got to pay the car off.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 07:11 AM) So can anyone be a victim of a con man? It seems we can always say, they should have known. No matter how smooth the con, they handed over the money, they should have known. They clicked on that link, they should have known. They singed the contract, they should have known. Someone describe a person to me that you all would say, should not have known, and was an actual victim? If the price of the car itself was skewed or lied about that would make her the innocent victim of a con man. But at the end of the day, she knew the price of the car and therefore the price of her debt for the car.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 02:32 PM) And that is the core of the debate. Was she duped into participating in this fraud? Some reject any chance that anyone could be duped into participating. Which sounds to me like no one could ever be a victim of fraud. I believe she is a victim because the dealer, based on her correct information, could have sold her a less expensive car. But this dealership conned her into overstating her income, then altered her admitted wrong doing, to sell her something they clearly knew she would not qualify for. And isn't there always someone like her in a fraud or is fraud a victimless crime? It seems in every fraud someone hands over cash, signs a contract, etc. Yes they should have known, but we call them victims. It's a tough call, but the assbag at the dealership deserves the venom that is being heaped on this woman. If she buys a car and she buys it for 30k and the car is actually 100k. Sure I can agree that she is without fault. But if she buys the car at 100k, and then doesnt really qualify for the loan so she and the agent lie about the income. Then they are both at fault. She should know that the 100k car is out of reach, because as adults we know what our income levels are. The fact that she knowingly put the other amount down, and knew what both amounts where( her usual monthly income versus disability). She had knowledge of her monthly note so to add that kind of large purchase is financially stupid and that is why its also her fault.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 02:28 PM) I have absolutely no disagreement with anything you said here. If she wants the car, and she qualifies for the financing through her credit and income, then it is her own fault. The car dealer has absolutely no right and is in no position to make decisions as to what she can afford or what she can not afford. However, if the dealer cannot obtain financing for her using the legitimate income and credit score, then he has to tell her just that. And he cannot fudge the numbers so it appears that she does qualify but she really does not. His option, if he can not obtain financing for her, is to try and get her to purchase a car that she does qualify for. But you should know what you can afford in a payment. Your credit score shouldn't have to be the one to tell you that the 100k car is out of your reach. The dealer is at fault. But how do you not know that the car payments require payment. Just easy math, take the amount of the loan and divide by the months in the term of the loan. Now thats without interest rate and all but you can get a baseline if it fits.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 02:23 PM) Yep, seems to be the situation. How is it not her responsibility to take care of and manage her own financials again? If someone convinces me to hold up 7/11, am I not responsible for my own actions? Is this crime different because it was committed on paper? DUMB = no responsibility. Just throw your money around blind, spend like a fool, and then act confused when the bills start coming in. The bad man didn't tell me that the 100k car actually required payment.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 01:48 PM) No, she went into Autonation "looking", according to the article. She got wrapped up in the excitement created by the salesperson and wound up committing fraud with the sales person. From the article Does that change your opinion even a little bit? I agree they cooked the books, I agree that they were bad people. I have 2 simple questions. Was the price of the car known. Did she have a clue that the loan on said price would have to be paid off over a term of 5 years or so. That disability check I am sure is a certain amount every month. So she should have a clue with a job or without what her income is per month.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 01:38 PM) They absolutely DID con her. How are you missing this? The credit system is in place to not only protect sellers, but to protect buyers as well. And the credit system determined she was NOT qualified to buy the car. Yet they fudged the income figures, so that she suddenly appeared to be qualified to buy the car. But in the end, they did everyone a disservice but themselves. They conned all parties involved. So here is a scenario for you. This lady is paid 1500 dollars a month(not realistic but fits the part of this scenario). This is what she gets month in and month out for the last 4 years. The only increases are a 4 percent raise she gets at her job in March. She has lived in a rent controlled apartment, and her rent is 700 dollars a month for the last 4 years. Her utilities are 300 dollars and she spends 200 dollars in food. Now if a slickster salesman tells her she can afford 500 dollars a month and she signs it. Is it the fault of the slickster, sure. But I would say that the lady who had a clue on her budget and her income versus debits per month should have a handle on what is an appropriate payment to be made. In my scenario this lady cannot afford 500 dollars a month payment. So if she signs it knowing that her budget which has been laid out for years doesnt allow it, she is a willing participant in stupidity. Now the slickster is a fraud artist and deserves the same blame. But the person, who knows damn well what their discretionary income is should have a handle on what they can add to their monthly note. As an adult it is your responsibility to have a handle on what your income is, and what your monthly bills are. And as an adult you are responsible making sure that any additions to your financial responsibility will fit within the earmarks of your income for the monthly. If you strap yourself so much that you have no room for any mistakes then maybe you shouldn't buy the car. I can tell you my budget each month. I can pretty much tell you what my bills are with a 5 percent variance every month. If this is someone telling you that you have 300 dollars, you sign a contract that says the payment is 300 dollars and then they cook the books and then your payments are 600 dollars. Then thats not your fault. But if you sign a contract and know that 500 dollars is your monthly payment, then 3 months down the road you realize that the 500 dollars puts a strain on you and you are going check to check now. THen guess what, thats your fault. Unscrupulous lenders, snake oil salesman, and all sorts of filth is out there to try and separate you from your money. It is up to you to make sure that you make decisions for yourself based on what you know about your financial situation.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 10:55 AM) Take this step by step She reveals to the "salesperson" her income. A professional says "as much as I'd love to see you drive off the lot today in that Mercedes, until you are working, they will not approve the loan. How about you come back when you are working and we will celebrate with that new car? And would you mind if I check in on you from time to time to see how the job search is going?" Instead she's in front of someone who realizes the only way to make this sale is through fraud. Now he has to determine if she is stupid and an idiot and gullible enough to go along with his fraud. It's his lucky day! He found someone "dumb" and an "idiot"! Even better, she has $30,000 in savings he can take! It certainly is his lucky day. Later message boards will be filled with scorn for her, but very little for him. (at this point no one has any sympathy for her because she is a dumb idiot for going along with the con man's scam) Later, his hopes are dashed because $6000 won't qualify. No problem! She's stupid and an idiot and he'll just squeeze an 8 in there and a decimal in here, and viola, he'll still have the sale, and she'll still be a stupid idiot. Again, message boards will be filled with scorn for her for not having any personal responsibility but he'll get off lightly. She can't be a victim and a sympathetic figure because she's stupid and an idiot and walked into a Mercedes dealer? Cons and frauds work because people are trusting, stupid, gullible, etc. And we lock people up in prison for committing these frauds. Even when the person signs contracts, hands over cash, checks, etc. In fact, it usually isn't until they turn over valuables that a con can be convicted. Con men prey on the stupid and the idiots. This guy was a con man in a nice suit at a Mercedes dealership. She clearly knew she was going along with something that is wrong, but the con man deserves 99% of the blame in this. It comes plenty close to entrapment. If he isn't willing to defraud the loan company. she doesn't. I don't know what school of signing contracts you came from but when I have a written contract in front of me, I take the time to go through it, review the terms and rates and penalties and then put the old signature on it. I dont trust the salesman, I dont trust the company I only trust what I see in black and white and that I have a copy of. When you argue any of this in front of a judge guess how much weight will be put in what is in black and white in the contract, and how you felt that day. When I have went and purchased a car, I have asked the salesman for one number. What does it take to walk out the door with this. Not what is the cost, and then taxes, and other add ons later. I want to know, entire package what is the bottom line cost when I walk out the door. Then I ask them to present the sales contract listing that specifically, and then I peruse it and then will sign if I am happy with the terms and conditions. I am sorry that she got took. Take a quick look at the paperwork before you sign something. Caveat Emptor. Now if the contract is altered after the fact, you have your copy and you can then refute it. But if you take anyones word for it, and then sign blind then you are throwing your own money out the door. Take a few minutes to review anything you sign. Its just common sense. Now all of the heat of the moment, maybe she was depressed, maybe she was sad that day. Thats all rubbish. Is every sales associate supposed to have a shrink on staff to assess mental condition. I dont remember that being part of any credit approval process. Now as many times as I can say it. THe dealership and the sales force is at fault here. But so is the person who walked out with the expensive car.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 07:13 AM) She was on temporary disability, went into Autonation to look, got caught up in the excitement created by the salesperson. Agreed to use an income figure of $6000 which was her expected income after she was off disability, which the dealer later changed to $8,600 to get her the loan. She did manage to accumulate $30,000 in savings, but we don't know if that was from her job or some other means. Let's hear it for the salesperson! Found someone he could create excitement for and get the stupid idiot to take the car after cleaning out her life savings I'll bet they can't wait until the next stupid idiot walks through the door so they can pull the same stuff. Every car guy in America must have tipped a glass to that guy. Its nice to see that adults going to a dealership have the same self control as my 3 year old when chocolate is put on the table. Did the salesperson jingle the keys so the lady would react like cat to the can opener. She bolts toward the car, looks ooooh its my favorite color RED. Can I have it. The dealership was wrong, the moron who bought the car was equally as wrong. I say that as I am about to get into my 1999 Honda Accord with 160k miles on it. Then again I realize that a car is transportation, and you dont get caught up in the moment. I could go and buy a Mercedes tomorrow, but then again I dont need a Mercedes and would rather take any discretionary income that I would use for a fancy new car and put it towards my house note so I can pay it off quicker. Hi my name is Kelly can I use your bathroom. "You dont need to use the bathrooom" Salesperson "I dont need to use the bathroom" Kelly "You want that 100k Red BMW" Salesperson "I want that 100k Red BMW" Kelly "Please sign here" Salesperson "I signed here" Kelly "Move along" Salesperson "Move along" Kelly "WTF Just happened. I am a victim. Damn Jedi" Kelly

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Feb 14, 2008 -> 01:08 AM) This thread is worthess without pictures The old Britney of Oops I did it again was worth some pics, this cigarette crazed insane slob that runs around talking in a fake cockney accent jumping into bed with everyone will break my display if you post pics.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 12:42 PM) Perhaps if people would't sue for 20 bazillion dollars when their pinky gets infected after they went to the doctor, or people go to the ER for a hangnail, etc the costs wouldn't be so damn high. But of course, it's always the evil capitalistic bastards driving costs up. You people do realize that all these costs are passthroughs by and large and the companies are getting charged more and more and more by whoever, using whatever factor is driving up the cost (malpractice insurance, suppliers, etc.) It's not like as a percentage the profits are growing any more. They're not, materially. MATERIALLY being the key word (I don't want to start a nitpick bulls*** thread). And lets not forget about the 12 million or so squatters who are still going to hospitals shockingly just in time for their anchor baby to be born here. Its not like they are paying one dime for healthcare.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 11:42 AM) The MESS as a whole is the fault of both sides. The companies hooked people into loans they think they can afford then jack up the prices later on. These companies KNEW the prices would go up, and I am more than sure they KNEW they would foreclose on some of them. I call it bulk lending. Make up for the potential foreclosures by giving out more loans to compensate. It is also the fault of the consumer. two and a half years ago I almost bought a town home. It would have been tight on the budget, but we could afford it. The other option to save money would have been to do a interest only or ARM. Well, i thought those sounded a little too risky. I understood these companies are out to make money, not help me get my dream. i decided against it. It's a good thing. My rate would have gone up and my home would be worthless. I have been a happy renter since August 2005. Corporate Greed + Consumer Ignorance = DISASTER Corporations are greedy, that shouldnt be a shock to everyone. The mess the mortgage industry got themselves into is their fault as well. But as far as the innocent victims of corporate greed. I am just sick of the sad sob stories of the people crying on TV playing victim because their ARM matured. They are not victims, they are willing participants in this mess. My favorites are the ones who said, well all of a sudden my payment went up and when I called the bank they told me that I had an ARM. I dont remember that. How can anyone be this dumb, really. Banks dont want foreclosures. If these so called responsible adults took some time to contact the bank and negotiate terms and maybe a new mortgage and show good faith they might save their home. But f*** that, just scream and cry and hope that the government bails you out. They miss 6 or so payments in a row meanwhile pissing and crying about being a victim then they put themselves in a place where they cant get help. But the same dolts who are crying on TV, are the same ones who dont pay their bills for 4 months in a row and then cry when its dark in the house. Pay your bills, and pay them on time. When I bought my house I had one thief of a lender try and talk me into buying a house 3 times the price of the one I bought. . Well you can afford it. I resisted the trap. I bought a good sized house in Downers Grove, that needed some work, fixed it up and I will have paid off within 10 years by overpaying on my 30 year note. Maybe I should of said f*** it, and went into Hinsdale and got the house with the bling bling address and then watched as I go month to month. The mortgage industry needs to re-evaulate on what is an appropriate risk for a lendee. If your house payment is 85% of your net for the month. Maybe its time to tell the morons that the house they want is too big. If you cannot pay your cable bill on time for 2 years, maybe they shouldn't be the one to get a mortgage.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 10:41 AM) I don't, and never did believe, that the Kyoto Protocol was the best idea we could come up with. Rather than dumping money into trying to comply with artificial restrictions assigned by the Protocol, or purchasing GHG emission reductions elsewhere (which accomplishes absolutely nothing), I believe the best solution still involves pouring that money into federal and state subsidies to give private corporations the opportunities to further develop and perfect green technologies. Let capitalism work for us here, because it isn't exactly working for us in some other areas. The second thing we must do, in my humble opinion, is begin placing very large tariffs on goods coming in from China, and any other countries that are blatantly violating human rights principles- I'm tired of allowing them to participate in our free market but not playing by the rules everyone else has to play by. We must make it more of a decision for not only corporations based elsewhere, but American companies, to manufacture in nations where the citizenry and the workforce is abused or taken advantage of. There's no way we can ever compete for those jobs otherwise. And yes, the prices at Wal-Mart will get much higher. Finally, we've got to attract any high-tech industries to the United States that we can. We need to get over some of he moral hesitancies we have regarding stem-cell research as well as other bio-industries that are either on the cusp now or in the near future. These are the industries we can best attract through our combination of infrastructure, facilities, and education. Remember your average citizen isnt going to give 2 s***s if the price of their items are going to double because of tariffs you passed onto the supplier who in turn will put them back on the consumer. They go to walmart because of the prices, not because of politics.

I am a republican but I cant stand this creature. plus this tatooed creature can go away as well.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 10:00 AM) I understand that completely. but like i said, he gave them the metaphorical middle finger. at least SEEM like you care. You cant make unilateral changes over night. But you can work in that direction. It takes time. Just dont ignore it, then in the last year of your presidency as you are literally getting kicked out the door go "oh crap, there's a problem. we gotta fix it". How praytell do you think this is going to get done. Do you think that companies are going to voluntarily make changes that will affect their bottom line and their shareholders. No. Do you think that with politicians on both sides of the aisle so knee deep in PACs that they will make this happen. No. So the only way this will happen is either by financial incentives for running clean which they dont want to do because it affects a revenue stream for the government. Or signing the Kyoto accord and putting a stranglehold on the economy. Do you know what will happen if the Kyoto accord is signed here. The chinese factory workers are going to have a lot more job opportunities as companies left and right move operations overseas. QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 10:06 AM) I cant speak to the intricacies of how other countries work. But I saw in an interesting note the other day. Congress just passed a $150 billion stimulus package. $150 billion would pay to run fiber to EVERY home (and i think business) in the entire country! I am not saying we should run fiber instead of give people money, but it's an interesting comparison. If instead of spending $275 million per day in Iraq we turned that money around and ran fiber... we could have fiber to every home in America within 2 years. Becky and Jimmy dont want you ripping up their prize garden because of the fiber you want to run there. Plus those little green poles you have in your backyard from AT&T are nothing like the 6 foot cabinets that will be required on every block to support the fiber plants you speak of. By I dont want a 6 foot large green cabinet sitting in my yard in the utility area. That comment about running fiber to every business is rubbish. My fiber cost nickles to get to the premises and then 60k in the encapsulated pipe because of some requirement by the electrical union here. Every turn required a turnbox. I would rather wait for DOCIS 3.0 and the 100mbs connection, or WiMax than have fiber run to my house.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 13, 2008 -> 09:36 AM) Afghanistan was one thing. IRAQ is a whole other. They invaded a country saying they were supporting terrorists, only to find out later there were no links. Over the last 3+ years we have been fighting over when and how to get them out. Investigations into corruption within the administration, and other wrong doing. All the time Bush suppresses government reports on global warming. Gives the Kyoto accords the middle finger. Let's oil companies money rape American citizens, healthcare companies charge record prices, America ranks 24th in the world in broadband penetration, a national debt that is ballooning out of control, ignored all these "sub-prime" and intrest only loans that even I know were bad ideas and I didnt go to Yale. You know what will do wonders for the economy, forcing US companies to comply with the Kyoto accord. That should kill the economy with one quick and violent blow. Do you know why the US ranks 24th in broadband penetration. Because there are so many telephone/cable companies who have local access, and dont want to cooperate with upstream vendors who will be using their network. Over in other countries there is one local carrier who supplies both local access and upstream access and can VAT the living crap out of any carrier that uses their network. But dont worry, this will change when the WiMax and more of the Cellular based broadband takes foothold. That will help with penetration. Becky and Jimmy homeowner want broadband, but they dont want Verizon digging up their yard to drop fiber as well. In other countries you dont have a choice. Here we have referendums and environmental studies of how the fiber optics will affect the indigenous swamp fly population. The subprime loans are the fault of morons who took them. If you sign a contract that has your house as collateral I suggest you take the few minutes and gloss over the wording. The rate, and term of any mortgage is pretty much spelled out for you. I blame the banks as well, for giving credit out to those who dont deserve it and giving too much of a ratio for what a person can afford over what they should afford. But in the end, the moron who signed the contract is the one to blame. No one forced that person to sign it. We are adults. You are responsible as an adult to pay your bills, and for your financial stability. If you make foolish decisions and dont read contracts you sign then you are asking for a world of trouble.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 10, 2008 -> 06:30 PM) yeah, I dont qualify, bumped up a tax bracket. I don't get it either.

As long as Steve and Barrys is around I wont pay more than 9 bucks for a pair of jeans. The jeans last just as long as the more expensive ones and they look pretty damn similiar as well. Steve and Barrys University Store

My avatar loves this thread. In reality there are some checklists you should abide by before performing these types of investigations even in a corporate environment. One is you must have a applicable acceptable use policy that the employee is aware of and cannot state they didnt see it. The easiest way for this is part of the hire pack from HR where they have to sign it with other corporate policies, the other is a banner that the user must access and cannot bypass for corporate access. Failure to do either may put you in a situation where you are violating the federal wiretap statute or some applicable state law and can put you at risk for litigation. I am a bit uneasy to give business managers the ability to read their employees mail. I dont know how small of a company you have, but in most companies this function is handed out to an investigations team or information security officer working directly with HR and Legal. Its one thing to have an automated system that flags emails for policy violations and then you dig deeper in the investigations, its another one when you are just digging through peoples emails for kicks. Remember without procedures, and repeatable processes you open yourself up to litigation. Now as far as my opinion on this matter. I consider any associate who has went through the soul searching, has decided to take enough of an action to start to actively interviewing for a job someone I dont want to keep. This is not just someone sending out a resume, this is someone sneaking around looking for another company to work for. Maybe the company is one of your competitors or in a similar industry. Now the pattern I see for the associate leaving is the following. They sneak off and interview. Taking days off, coming in late. They start to show more and more apathy to the company. When they secure the job, they start the process of separation. They remove their personal items, and at this time they usually take work product home. This can range from customer lists, pricing guides, internal memos, items that they use for their job at your company. This is part of the level of familiarity that people have and is part of the security blanket they use to help them bridge from their old job to their new one. Now as much as the employee might have created some of these documents, these are work product for your company. By taking some of this you can get into trouble with some of the compliance laws out there. What if the associate is an HR rep and steals medical information. You will love the HIPAA fines your company will get plus your customers will love the disclosure statements. Your employees will love the new credit watch information that they get. And your company has sunk a lot of money over someone that should of been walked out the door the minute you find out. Do you know where most of the intrusions happen. Its not from Joe Hacker, its from Bob from Accounting who hates his job and just took a new one. This is the guy you have to worry about. The bitter guy who you stole the red staple from. This is your risk candidate. Now that he has his safety net he gets ready to get even. Either way. This person is making an active effort to leave your company more than I am just upset with my job. For me the easiest answer for this is to avoid this situation. Take the time to talk to your employees. Not just in the review. Every so often take the person out to lunch. Ask them how they like things, if there is anything that is bothering them. Any processes that you need to work on. I have done this for years with my employees and have not had too many issues. My peers think of it as coddling. To me its an investment in key assets. When you get to the point of seperation its too late. Cut the cord and take a lesson learned.