CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I realize Jake's no longer on the Sox but moving this to the Diamond Club almost seems like a deliberate attempt to stifle continued talk of the trade. I'd understand moving it to Diamond talk once interest in discussing the trade lagged and it dropped off the 1st page of Soxtalk. How is the Kenyan Middleton talk about his mother complaining that the Sox didn't allow his children in their daycare rate high enough not to get moved to Diamond Club ? Is gossip mongering more important than actual baseball talk? Moving the Burger thread to Diamond talk almost seems as bad as the Sox not putting Middleton's name on the Scoreboard when he returned in light of returning as a visiting player after he ripped the Sox clubhouse rules. Just thought I'd mentioned that Burger now has a 2.3 fWAR and although it's not official yet because WAR can also move down but Burger's 2.3 is higher than Eloy's best of 1.7 in 2022. In only 15 games with the Marlins he's put up .9 fWar . How is this possible for a 1B/DH type? I know plenty of that .9 in 15 games is offense but his defensive fWar has also been getting better which accounts for the almost 1 full fWAR increase in 15 games. His wRC+ has also risen from 115 to 121. His BABIP which I previously noted in discussing the trade and how Burger may improve in the future ,has risen from .225 to .259. His OBP has risen from .279 to .298, his BA from .214 to .234. His slugging has stayed the same at a robust .527. His wOBA has risen from .337 to .347. His current line with the Marlins is .333 , .397 , .526, .923. Of course I do realize that we're still talking about small sample sizes here and this is probably the hottest 15 game stretch of his young career. But it does go to show that when the naysayers said the Sox sold high and that Burger's defense made him more of a 1B/DH guy than a 3rd baseman that those things were not necessarily true, at least in the 15 games after the trade. I hope Jake and the Marlins can continue playing well and I get to see them in the playoffs where hot small sample sizes actually do have relevance.

That's speculation of course. I know who gets drafted especially in the early rounds is a group effort, Hahn, KW Sr. maybe as well as Jr. ( who knows) scouts and even JR has been known to stick his nose in on picks. I can't even imagine Hahn thinking he has the knowledge required to overrule a top draft pick. At least KW Sr. has some ancient scouting knowledge in his background but he has one foot out the door . Hahn should 've been out the door already and if he's a lame duck GM why give him that much power ? The only conclusion I can reach if Hahn had anything to do with picking Gonzalez is that he will be the Sox GM next year.

I expected the usual defense of him from you and perhaps he trusts you not to spill the beans and give away whatever position he holds that puts him in the know. I I guess as a fan who reads his posts like the usual cryptic comment he just made that Shirley might not have been responsible for the Jacob Gonzalez pick is frustrating. I mean I get it, It's a group effort and Shirley is supposed to be the guy in charge . Basically so much of what we hear as fans is that whoever is in charge really isn't in charge. So much of what we post as fans is total speculation trying to assign blame to someone . I had to look this up but and I made a mistake Harold made the original post that said KW Jr. wasnt part of the Sox of player development any more and I responded to him on August 1st. He's still listed on whitesox.com Minor League Operations Assistant General Manager/Player Development Chris Getz Director of Minor League Administration Kathy Potoski Assistant Director, Player Development Ken Williams Jr. Special Assistant to Baseball Operations José Contreras

Do you actually trust that Harold is an insider ? Lately all I've been seeing lately are posts on Ken Williams Jr having an important roll in Sox minor league development. I brought that up a week maybe 10 days ago and it seems like all of a sudden I see a bunch of posts about him. Harold said he wasn't a part of the organization any more to my post. I responded that he was still listed on whitesox.com among the employed. After that I didn't hear anything. It's only because of Harold that I still really don't know if KW Jr is still around. Who knows for sure ? Someone show me something that says he isn't part of the organization anymore besides the usual misinformation we get from Harold. He says something then says nothing to support it. I think in most cases why hint at something if you can't give the whole story ?

So the Sox have Korry Lee. Adam Hackenberg and Xavier Fernandez at AAA. Seems like a pretty solid trio to go along with Carlos Perez. We don't hear about Fernandez often and I found this on him :Drew Osborne of The Royals Farm Report stated “Fernández is a solid catcher who will be a big league catcher at some point in the near future ... he could be a backup immediately in the majors. His defense is outstanding. Fernández blocks well and is a tremendous receiver with soft hands that frame well. As far as throwing, he has gunned down minor league runners at a 39% pace in his career and 41% this season in NWA. His throws are low, on the money, and carry well.” As far as I can tell that was from 2018 . Here's a link to the article from Feb 2022.https://www.southsidesox.com/2022/2/15/22932205/south-side-sox-white-sox-top-prospect-no-59-xavier-fernandez#comments My question is how good is his defense really ? I'm pretty sure we were hearing glowing reports on Carlos Perez' defense too. Fernandez seems like a solid hitter and is already 28 between Perez and the trio at AAA why would the Sox be hanging onto Grandal and Zavala. I understand Zavala has a decent rep with working with the pitchers but between Perez, Lee, Hernandez and Zavala that seems like a group you can let play in MLB and until whoever ultimately grabs the bull by the horns. AT this point I'm thinking it's not Zavala. I know Quero isn't going to be rushed so wouldn't it behoove the Sox to cycle through what they have starting right away to separate the wheat from the chaff until Quero is ready ?

A little goes a long way with fans. However I haven't seen anything lately that leads me to believe the fans are important to them.

Our hearts ?

He was . That wasn't him out there its was the shell of him. He had nothing. Bummer pitched yesterday also. Plenty of guys were available.

Just to make this day even better all 6 White Sox minor league teams won today by a combined score of 62-19. Also Edgar Quero looking very savage today !

But apparently we miss Jake Diekman .

Thank you all for the updates,

Good things happened tonight. Bullpen pitched 5 shut out innings in Wrigley. Lane Ramsey with 1st career MLB victory and Santos with the 1.2 IP hard working save. Made it look easy 0 runs 0 hits 0 walks 3 K.

Right the way Balta is thinking is that you can take defensive war , offensively WAR and Baserunning WAR add it all up and you get his total fWAR. That's not how it works. He's 2.0 baserunning, 9.8 Offensively and -2.1 defensively. 11.8 - ( -2.1) would equal 9.7 fWAR even if you cancel out that baserunning is part of his offensive WAR you would still get a 7.7 fWAR instead of the 2.0 that it is.

There are only 2 guys in baseball with ISO above .300 and thats the 2 MLB HR leaders Ohtani and Olson (sorry said Burger so I edited it) A .313 ISO number was never sustainable. Despite that his ISO his still tied for 5th in MLB with Robert and Betts at .292. The issue I have with you saying plummet it's as if it means a whole heck of a lot in 15 games . Maybe he's just making the necessary adjustments to become a better hitter. He's only a tick down in EV and hard hit %. He could hit 2 HR's in the next 2 days and be right back up where he was or he could continue hitting the ball hard and finding holes. Either way the Marlins have to be pleased.

I know defensive WAR in small sample sizes is ludicrous to look at at. I'm just going by what I see on fangraphs. https://www.fangraphs.com/teams/white-sox https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jake-burger/22275/stats?position=3B

I didn't say plummet you did and I didn't write the article. If the point you are trying to make is that his exit velocity numbers with the Sox were among the best in baseball then I agree . The exit velocity numbers with the Marlins like the article said was among the 18 best in baseball. However we are quibbling over a very small sample size. If that sample size with the Marlins makes you think his power number plummeted while still being among the best in baseball I don't know what to tell you. He's been great in his small sample with the Marlins. Most of what I say is only in response to the Burger complainees. I think they talk about him as if he is a finished product and I balance that out they saying he could be better and that he missed 3 years of development time. For the record I don't bash Sosa. You're speaking in generalities as if the people who like Burger hate Sosa. I think it's more likely that the people who bash Burger also bash Sosa. Of course the Marlins we're looking to the future with Burger but they were also looking at the present. Their team needed power and a regular third baseman. While I know you think you are being objective It's actually OK to look at Burger and say if he hadn't lost 3 years of development time it's possible he could've already been a very good player already instead of a 27 year old struggling with the inconsistencies that usually come for most players the 1st time they get to play full time. I m happy for him. And although I like Burger I never hated the trade. It's a tough pill to swallow that with White Sox player development being what it is, to look at the prospects we got and think only a couple have a shot to be good players at the MLB level. It's great the minor league system has been upgraded but until the Sox actually pick a lane and decide to put more money into how those guys are developed the end results are likely to be as bad as they were for the rebuild. It hasn't help that so far the guys the got have not been impressive to say the least. It's likely Burger, even after the trade, will still finish 2nd among Sox position player in fWAR this year He had 1.4 at the time he was traded and is now at 2.0 . His wRC+ has gone from 115 to 117 . His defensive WAR according to fangraphs was -4.2 with the Sox and is now down to a season total of -2.1 which means he's actually been a positive WAR defensively since the trade. He might be what we thought he was, a low BA, low OBP 1B/DH type or he could surprise us all. Normally your 1st base DH types like Vaughn are shown the door because their offense isn't enough to overcome their defense but instead he was crowned an untradeable core piece. Eloy was also declared one of those also and he is one bad injury away from the Sox cutting him loose after 2024. If this is how the Sox assess their talent and the same guys are left in charge there's nothing to look forward to . 2 guys, Robert and Burger, were performing beyond expectations. With nothing to look forward too I think just a few of us ,judging by the likes on my posts about Burger, actually found some enjoyment in an otherwise disastrous season with not a lot to immediately look forward too once again.

Again addressing "power" plummetting. The following is from a very recent Miami Herald Article. And Burger isn’t sacrificing power to bump up his batting average. Of Burgers 33 balls play through his first 11 games with Miami, 12 have an exit velocity of at least 100 mph — he’s one of only 18 players to have that many since Aug. 2. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article278218297.html

I think all of the 3 years lost were due to the Achilles rupturing twice. I knew other players lost development time due to Covid and a little more due to labor problems , but Burger wouldn't have played those years anyway. He was rehabbing his injuries and not able to play baseball at all. Someone like Vaughn lost time but he was still able to play in Schaumburg taxi squad in 2020.

He could turn into better than Schwarber . Schwarber has the advantage in that he is LH and mainly faces pitchers who are RH. That's the built in advantage of being LH in a sport where over 70% of pitchers are RH. Doubtful Jake ever comes close to taking as many walks as Schwarber . Schwarber's 2 highest fWAR years were 21 and 22 and fWAr of 2.8 and 2.6. Mostly all of it is from offense. So far this year Burger has a 2.0 fWAR with positive contributions offensively and baserunning while the defense hasn't been nearly as bad as Schwarber. Already in 2023 in twice as many games as 2022 Burger's defensive fWAR is a lot better (-4.9 to a now acceptable -2.1)

Yes it is early . His power metrics probably were never going to be as high as they were. They were outrageously high . His latest line with the Marlins is .326 , .396 , .488, .884 . A lot of the complaints about Burger were he wasn't hitting for average and had a terrible on base percentage. These complaints are typical of fans refusing to look at the full picture. He did lead the team in walks in July. He also lost 3 years of development time with the injury. 3 years !! That means a lot. Aso his 1st year getting nearly full time playing time so basically 4 months of really just getting into a chance to adjust. James Otman , atrue rookie at 26, started hot then got cold and is now hot again. Same thing except Outman always knew how to take walks and is a good fielder but then again he didn't miss 3 years. Plummeting power numbers are a bit of an exaggeration when he's now hitting for average and taking walks and his OPS is higher for the time being. He also would've had a double instead of a single on that game winning hit. 1 HR and 4 doubles in 12 games is not a big deal when he's hitting over . 300 and his OBP is nearly .400. A guy should actually have more singles than all his extra base hits combined if he's going to be a well rounded hitter. EARLy results say he's been being a better hitter . He's one of those guys who studies his craft and his wife helps him. The guy wants to be better, he studies to be better. so I hope he will be better.

However you can't say blocked if they only have Moncada and Eloy each for 1 more year which is a distinct possibility. Also Devers isn't a great 3rd basement either and he plays 3rd a lot. Burger isn't terrible at third , he's near the bottom for sure but it's still a fairly limited sample size and precludes the possibility that he'll get better. It's basically the same argument I've been using about his hitting. If he all of a sudden starts hitting for a higher average and taking more walks., it won't be that the Marlins fixed him. He was never broken. He just lost 3 years of development time and had already started showing he was learning ( 11 walks in July ) and showing a proclivity for wanting to dive into data. He hit's the ball as hard as anyone in baseball when he makes contact. His BABIP should be able to go much higher than it was. He might not hit HR's at the same pace but he's shown he can go oppo and just isnt a pull only guy.

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/jake-burger-on-his-clutch-hit https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/marlins-rally-to-top-yankees

Maybe they did something, maybe they didn't besides your basic, but necessary, we believe in you , just keep playing great defense, taking walks and running the bases well. You're a important part of this team. It's still his 1st year and he probably had to adjust to the adjustments. Fans just aren't patient enough to give guys a chance. Plenty still think Burger is who we saw batting under .200 and just hitting bombs. Outman didn't miss 3 years like Burger did. He got a chance to hone his new swing. But it was always very helpful to him that he had a good eye . Sox had better start taking OBP in player development very seriously. It's the one thing that can spell doom for otherwise very talented hitters. MLB pitchers are nasty and they are smart and have smart catchers. Your weaknesses will be exploited continuously.

I specificly mentioned Outman because in the off season I did a lot of research on him so I know for a fact they rebuilt his swing. I don't know if you were posting back then but I started posting a lot about not so young OF's to target , guys who were around 24-27 who all appeared to be MLB ready. Outman was my favorite and I became the Outman guru and as usual when you hype someone as much as i did you get meatballers who , no matter what you say, think you only like him because he had a very good debut with the Dodgers last year. I went on and on about his speed, defense, power and how once they rebuilt his swing that he now had a large enough sample size in the minors to say it was successful. I thought he could quickly be valuable on the bases, offensively and defensively despite a high K rate. I said he was better in my eyes than the Dodger's ranked prospects Michael Busch and Miguel Vargas who weren't as fast nor had good reputations for defense. SO yea I took a lot of flack but I also had a lot of posters whom said you convinced me. Now he's approaching 3 fWAR on the season and has about a .500 OBP since the All Star break, tops in MLB.

I know he's around the team all the time but I would imagine he may get a lot of "this is off the record" or "you didnt hear it from me" stuff. He also doesn't speak spanish as far as I know and that would leave him vulnerable to only getting one side of a story . If you have to use an interpreter you might not get the type of inside info that you would getting it straight from the horses mouth. This is the danger zone that most reporters fell into who only speak English in a sport where many of the players speak spanish but the scuttlebutt you hear is often from only those who speak English. You can see how it might be slanted against the non english speaking players.