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They're are just as good of ROY candidates as Colas might be. I don't know what odds I'd put on it. There are only so many ways to assess young talent without actually seeing them in person and that is stats from the minors and time in the majors. That's all I got sorry. And they did good at both . If they had sucked at one or the other I'd be hearing about that too. Actually I am hearing about it with K rates, walk %. I can rattle off how bad Bellinger has been too over and over. His start line was pretty similar to Billy Hamiltons in 2021 except Bellinger had way more AB's but BA, OBP, SLG ,OPS all quite similar. Still don't get what you guys have against youth. Everyone wanted a rebuild to get a lot of youth and the system sucks now and all that youth is either always injured or sucking getting paid more than they are worth. If I have to trade Romy or Burger to get Garrett whats the big deal ? If I have to trade Hendriks+/- to get Outman +/- so what. Might free up more money to get Bellinger or improve the starting pitching .

Not all are available? All we do off season is suggest trades and signing guys who aren't available. I would think that minor league guys and DFA candidates are a lot more attainable than Bellinger given the new restraints . I'm not thinking playoffs I'm thinking younger. Aren't you sick of watching guys who were all supposed to be better than ABreu by now get hurt and under perform all the time ? Now you want another one who will cost more than he's actually worth because he was once an MVP ? We had an MVP and he was still the best player on the team and we aren't keeping him. I have no idea what signing Bellinger actually accomplishes. When a guy has been so bad with a top organization known for finding guys and making them better, couldn't make Bellinger any better and the organization you want to sign him is known for not developing players and getting all kinds of injuries to their young core players so often that most of them have never had a good full season, that's bad money after bad. Plus you want to get into some kind of bidding war for him ? Where's the money coming from to make the pitching staff better ? We can point out flaws in every scenario for this year based on money supposedly available and cost to sign or trade guys. Again I don't see anything controversial about wanting young guys with good skills. Every player on the Sox has plenty of flaws too but what most of them don't have are defensive skills ,speed, power ,small contracts and 6 years of eligibility.

2007 Fields was pretty good for the Sox. Owens was a nothing hitter in the minors so I don't see any link to expectations there. Not sure what point you're making . Prospects hit and miss all the time but it helps when they have a specific toolset that MLB is encouraging in rules changes and also fits team needs. All this talk about trading or signing name players is folly. They don't have the system to make trades or the money to sign anyone. They have to free up money and the logical guy is Hendriks. Any money has to go to pitching. Get some youth with speed,power, defense potential is all I've been saying and the guys I like are OF's where the need is quite pressing. I don't see how that's controversial in any way.

Far be it for me to crush your dreams but I also think it's possible and my way of doing it is taking chances on young guys with speed power and defense and LHness in the OF while at the same time perhaps providing a much needed infusion of energy.it's just better for the future when there's very few MLB ready hitters in the minors outside of Colas. It's not like the Sox had anyone come up for a brief while last year and produce .5 War in a 4 game and 27 game sample size while at the same time tearing up AAA like Outman and Garrett did. If the Sox had a couple player do what Outman and Garrett did last year everyone would be thrilled with it. Instead we get people here saying Garrett was DFA'd, Outman's a 4th OF type according to BA and they K too much Well yea tha'ts why teams have to scout and make the hard choices. Garrett hit a couple of HR's of Cease and Rodon. The best hitters can hit those hangers for HR's . That's what power guys do and they are good fielders too. I want to surround Robert with other young players who have a chance to be good players. I know they might not end up that way but you have to get skilled players into your system. Our near MLB ready talent pipeline among position players with good potential is Colas and Sosa. The farm system is trashed at the upper level and isnt that much better between the DSL and AA.

So you think they are going to go after Bellinger ?

Right now the Sox according to Vegas are the 11th team in line picked to win the World Series. It might get worse during the off season. We need like 8 different key guys to rebound or show improvement health and statistics wise without the others falling off a cliff too.

I'm no expert either. But the Sox have needs. Among those needs are youth, speed. power and defense and LH hitters. This team is pretty far away from a miraculous run at a World Title. The new shift rules are designed to help LHH . The new bigger bases, pickoff attempt, and pitch clock rules are all designed for stealing bases. With all those things in mind plus the fact the Sox have practically no one in the minors to step into the opening day roster beside Colas and many don't think he's ready either. But I do. So I identify a skill set of guys ready to play in the Major Leagues who have most of those attributes. Please don't take me so literally about Hendriks for Outman. I think there's trade that can involve both of them to be made but I have no idea who else might be involved. The Sox need to rid themselves of salary and outside of Cease, Hendriks is the main guy . Make Lopez the closer and use the extra monet if any to get a decent starting pitcher and cheaper BP pieces. Nothing I can suggest nor getting Bellinger will turn this team into a contender. Maybe either way can get them into the playoffs again IF Moncada, Gilito, Grandal, Robert, ANderson and Eloy can all have relatively healthy seasons and Kopech can pitch a full season and Vaughn also takes a step up. Really too many ifs to actually think the Sox would make the playoffs but at least my idea is infusing the team with much needed speed, power and defense is to provide hope for adding to the core and designed to take advantage of the new rules.

We'll see you know me well enough to know I know what I'm talking about usually. I was 100 % right about what to do with Rodon against just about everyone here and @ptatc. I predicted the downfall of the rebuild probably 2.5 years ago. I nailed what Abreu would hit his rookie year. I was right about Vaughn's OF defense. To those who were crowing how Kopech was going to step right up and take Rodon's place I told them they were expecting way too much for a 1st year starting pitcher coming off an TJ surgery. In Billy Hamilton's 2021 year with the Sox in 127 AB's .220. 242 .378 .620 9 steals Cody Bellinger 2022 504 AB's .210 .265 .389 .654 14 steals Looks pretty similar to me but if you want to find out if he's still got an MVP inside him for $10M+ that's up to you rather than try to get a DFA guy , a not Top 100 ranked prospect who has showed promise and can take advantage of the new rules and have as good a chance than any Sox prospect not named Colas to contribute immediately for way less money and way more years that's fine. I'm not going to stop thinking my idea is way more plausible, realistic and ultimately more productive and way cheaper and much better for infusing the team with youth rather than retreads.

I'm not expecting anything. The team isn't going to win a World Series anyway next year. And they aren't going to pay for Bellinger. There is expect and there is hope. But I have more faith into adding younger, faster, better defensive, cheaper players who hit for power than I do in rolling out the same garbage in the OF because the new rules are pointing us in that direction and only a fool ignores those things. People act like it's a sin around here to mention other teams prospects who have skills. Just because I'm sticking my neck out doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. Our old pal Jimmy thought it would also be prudent to try to get Garrett. To me its all about the skill set of these guys. The fact that Outman isnt a top 100 prospect makes the chances of getting him better. Sue me if I want younger power hitters who can field and run and aren't ranked. I can't ignore the numbers they put up in AAA and their small but very good sample sizes in the majors.

ANd you'd think that the chances were much better for Moncada and Bellinger to become good again for as much as you mention them only the guys I'm talking about will cost next to nothing and your guys are going to cost whatever Moncada is still owed and whatever Bellinger would cost in some vain attempt to revive their careers and then send Bellinger somewhere else just like the Sox did with Rodon. The only thing separating Bellinger being Billy Hamilton is the HR every 28 AB's for the last 3 years.

Look the new rules are begging teams to add young fast LH players. The bigger bases, the shift rule changes, the pick off attempts and pitch clock rules. Yea Garrett isn't LH but he is fast and hits for power. Sure he got DFA'd but so what. Plenty of teams had turned less into more. JD Martinez, Muncy, Taylor, Justin Turner you can go on and on with guys who no one thought nothing of at one point who became something. Ok so he isn't as young as the other guys but did you see what he did in AAA and then with his 27 trial run with the Dbacks ? How can you totally dismiss his, speed , power and defense when fast young players are what made Cleveland so dynamic and the new rules are geared towards making them even more important ?

Who said anyone is trying to win a championship ? There is no winning a championship but you can turn it around quicker adding 3 young studs and finally getting some LH bats and defense in the OF to support the pitching. Every plan is a long shot at this point but why add pieces that are going to be gone in 2 years or less and cost you beacoup bucks to see if they can rebound after 3 off seasons ? It's bad enough the Sox have to do that with Moncada and wait for full healthy seasons from Eloy and Robert. Maybe those 3 young guys can stay healthy and produce too. The position player core has been a disaster. Time to start see if those 3 guys can be core pieces. Better defense, more power, faster, better balanced lineup, wayyyy cheaper OF depth. I could've sworn that's what we wanted.

Or they may not or think they can be competitive with a plan like mine 3 young OF all ready to play in the Majors. 2 of them being LH all with power and defense. Spend what little money you have on pitching and trade Hendriks in an Outman deal. Go to war with a young speedy powerful OF while adding 2 LHH lots of defense and lots of power. And best of all young bashers who can become core pieces quickly.

It wouldn't even be good money after bad. It'd be bad money after bad. I'd rather take my chances with the 3 AAA OF's. Colas, people here like Outman, and Garret should be given a shot. They will be flying around the OF ,bashing HR's ,flying around the bases and bringing energy to this team which is what Grifol wants. Defense, power, base running and best of all 6 years apiece for all 3 of them ! Outman and Garrett had great AAA seasons. Colas looks pretty ready to go himself. 2 lefty bashers and 1 RH basher who play good defense too. It's what we've been wanting for 2 years and now people want a $10M retread instead because he's a "name" player with an MVP in 2019? That's $2.16M for 3 guys who run and hit and defend right up there with Bellinger without the age or accumulated injuries or salary vs. $10M for 1 guy who's had 3 straight blah seasons since he blew out his shoulder. They also have a chance to out perform Bellinger with the bat too. I don't get it.

I thought the lane you picked was a rebuild ? If you're going to add question marks it may as well be cheap rookie question marks who can get better over time without costing the team $10M to add to the mess of Moncada, Grandal, Giolito and Eloy staying healthy and having much better seasons. If Outman plays as much as Bellinger he'll have as much WAR and so will Colas and possibly Garrett too and all 3 of those guys added together will be about 15% of what Bellinger will cost plus 18 years of them vs. 1 or 2 years of Bellinger and his crap shoulder ? You have to be as high as Bellinger to not start adding to the core with fleet defenders with good arms and powerful bats. Anyone wanting to add Bellinger must be in love with Moncada too. They have about then same chance of hitting like they once did. Aren't the Sox already wasting enough money on Grandal and Moncada to keep throwing that kind of money at someone the Dodgers couldn't fix ?

Which is mainly the reason why the Mets picked up the 2 DFA guys from the Marlins. . From MLBTR: Both Hernandez and Brigham have a minor league option year remaining — two, in Brigham’s case — and therefore shouldn’t be seen as locks to occupy a spot on next year’s Opening Day staff for the Mets. That said, Hernandez has four-plus year of MLB experience and Brigham has three, so they’re a bit more seasoned than the garden-variety DFA pickup. .Hahn still napping. BP needs guys with options. OF /team needs defense, power and depth and its out there with Garrett and Aquino. Wake up Ricky !

I'd trade Hendriks for Outman. No idea if that's fair or even if the Dodgers will consider trading Outman.

I'm operating on the assumption they won't spend squat and they'll be dumpster diving all season or making trades. They're already pinning their hopes on guys rebounding . To add another rebound candidate doesnt make any sense to for so much money. If the Dodgers couldn't get Bellinger fixed in 3 season I'm not going to count on the Sox to do it when they can't get there own guys fixed. Spend on starting pitching with the limited funds available. Hope the Dodgers will trade Outman for Hendriks and let Colas, Outman Robert and maybe Stone Garrett patrol the OF. Pretty good defense there and nice chance for some rookie production . Can't see any hope for much else. Aquino strictly a depth piece. As you noted he had 6 HRs in Sept/Oct. but who on the Sox hit 6 HR's in Sept/Oct. Did Eloy ? Of course my outfield hinges on prying Outman away from the Dodgers which may not be possible. Aquino would be AAA depth but if you can find a LHB with his kind of power and defense already on the scrap heap you are welcome to try since he is RH corner OF. He's definitely not a CF but Garrett and Colas can play CF in case of injury as can Cespedes I suppose if you had to.

And what do you do about the rest of the holes after you blown your wad on yet another guy you'd be expecting a comeback from ? You're spending $10M on Bellinger when the Sox might only spend $15M ?

Weren't you one of the guys telling me what a great year Kopech was going to have in 2022 as a replacement for Rodon and I told you to cool your jets because he's a 1st year starting pitcher and was going to have his ups and downs ?

They can get much better defensively in the OF with upside for offense if they just work out some deals with DFA' guys and find out if Outman is available. With better OF defense this team at least won't be losing so many games defensively and that works better in close games than terrible defense. If you go with Colas, see if you can trade for Outman and bring in the DFA guys Garrett and Aquino. That's adding a good amount of OF defense 2 LH bats and 2 right handed bat all with power, defense and depth. Colas, Outman and Garrett could all be ROY candidates for pretty cheap depending on if the Dodgers are willing to move him for perhaps Hendriks. Of course they could all bomb too but at least if they do bomb offensively, which I honestly doubt, at least you're going to get pretty good defense and occasional HR's. The reason all these guys are available is because they have some obvious holes in their games but defense and big time power are not among their holes. Eloy can then be a full time DH and hopefully stay healthy and then you also have more full time big time power in the lineup a lot more. Vaughn at 1st might also hit for more power. Hahn has to show a pulse soon though . Spend the little money you have on pitching. Trade Hendriks., If you want to take your chances with Adam Frazier at 2nd base thats ok if getting him doesn't interfere with most of your money spent on pitching. But otherwise its Romy or Sosa. Of course a few guys from the 40 might be removed in trading for the DFA guys but I like starting with upgrading the defense and power with younger guys for cheap and spending money on pitching while subtracting the money from the BP . That will hurt the BP some but Lopez to closer and work on the middle relief depth by trolling for cheap upgrades there also. Not exciting but it's what needs to be done. Plug defensive holes in the OF, get younger, hope the core gets larger with Colas and Outman and perhaps Garrett. Hit more HR's, allocate funds away from the pen and into starting pitching and pray for bounce backs, health and a Cease-like progression from Kopech.

There was general agreement here and yes among the Sox management but we see how that turned out. The real Vaughn as a fielder showed up which was what I was saying would happen all along. He never had the speed, experience or athleticism required to play a competent OF. He was only competent that year because he had a high number of chances that a lot of OF also wouldn't have gotten to but once the ball started finding him more his total lack of range and speed showed it's true colors. Sometimes you have to see beyond the numbers in a limited sample size of defensive chances. No one was ever hesitant to say what terrible fielders , Sheets or Burger are because they weren't the golden boys of hype like Vaughn was and continues to be with some. Now after a terrible year of defense and faltering at the end of the season again people are finally figuring out what was in front of their noses the whole time. I'm not anti- Vaughn by any stretch . I love that he became a much better hitter and I advocated the departure of our best , most consistent player to see how Vaughn does playing 1st base. But he had better start getting close to 30 or 35 HR's a year as an undersized 1st basement or he'll never be a "great hitter" because the great hitter hype is still rolling.

Crazy talk . He'd kill to get a contract like that. He'll be lucky to get a 2 year $20M contract. There's only so much money anyone wants to pay for guys who can field and run and hit a few HR's like Bellinger and Gallo while batting in the low .200s. Arestides Aquino can do that stuff and I don't see anyone clamoring for him. Hell if Aquino had had as many AB's as Bellinger he probably hits twice as many HR's as Bellinger. He might not be LHH, CF like Bellinger or run like Bellinger but has a hell of an arm and plays a nice corner OF and won't cost squat. His numbers are similar to Moncada. How do you feel about Moncada ? Bellinger had a higher fWar than Moncada basically due to more playing time in CF and a being a better base runner. I know we all want to discuss bigger possibilities than DFA guys but even a top nontender expecting a $10M contract is beyond the Sox grasp. They have too many holes to fill and they are going to have to find much cheaper options. Which is why I've been recommending DFA guys and trades for AAA guys like Outman. The new rebuild or hard retool, whatever you want to call, it should be starting but it isn't. Hahn is going to keep pretending they are competing to draw the casual fan into attending but it will result in ultimate failure. They could bounce back for a year if they stay healthy and our Bellinger (Moncada) can get his act together but they fucked around for 2 years skipping the finalization part of the rebuild with inept executives in charge. Now it's on life support.

You move along. How often do you have to be told that defensive stats are not stats that can do used in short sample sizes One year of stats is never enough. Your ignorance is astounding. Your baseball knowledge terrible.

You bore me .