CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I have a bit of an issue with you capitalizing EXACTLY maybe save the" multiple" part of the quote . That really doesn't make it EXACTLY then does it? You contradict yourself all in one sentence. I remember it as him saying prospect for prospect which means one for one. Now, since this seems to be the bone of contention between us , I have been trying to find the EXACT quote by listening to podcasts and googling but for now I can't find it. I will continue to look and if I find that you are correct I will say so. As for the Cubs /Sox trade I know I was one of those who thought it was very possible and even said they matched up perfectly and I am sure if you do the research you can find my posts about it. In the meantime I have my own searching to do with the Hahn quote.

I'm seeing his name bandied about a lot as the type of guy the Sox should be going after . I totally disagree. He not all that young . He will turn 28 June 17. He is not all that healthy. He's had a lot of shoulder problems in the past and some last season and throws a lot of sliders. Just the same kind of complaints we've seen about Corbin. Seems like a lot of Japanese pitcher break down once they reach the states or a season or 2 after, Key points from the dodgerdigest article. Kikuchi’s posting is somewhat poorly timed, as he took a step back in 2018. His average fastball velocity backed off from 92.3 mph to 91.5 mph. His strikeout rate dropped over 6% to a more pedestrian (but still good for NPB) rate of 23.4%. Thanks to an increase in ground ball rate his ERA remained in the low 3s in the face of a potentially juiced baseball. Overall, not terrible, but not matching the potential he showed the year before. Kikuchi’s velocity drop did not necessarily come without warning. He missed most of May with a mysterious case of “shoulder tightness.” The specific cause of the tightness was never really clarified (at least on English-language NPB websites). In the starts after his return, he struggled to hold his velocity throughout outings, sitting at about 93 in the early innings and fading towards 90 by the end of those stints. In the later months of the season the velocity returned, but the strikeouts never really followed. The shoulder scare raises questions about Kikuchi’s durability. He made it through 2017 in good shape, but he has missed significant time in several other seasons. His shoulder was a concern in 2013, he missed time with finger blisters in 2014, and some of 2016 due to a “right side” injury. He missed the first few years after he was drafted with even more injury trouble. Another look at the previous video clips shows a high-effort delivery, adding to potential health concerns.

They don't need to pick one of the 2 . They go after both and sign whoever agrees to sign with us, then break off negotiations with the other.

I'm not ignoring quality. You have the highest upside for Senzel while ignoring the upside for the others calling them HUGE busts potentially. My scenario is seeing the upside of all of them. I just want to wait til we really know what we have. There will always be 3rd basemen available. Yes Senzel looks great but Cease could be also and the others , we just don't know at this point. Just rather take my chances that Cease will be at least the equal of Senzel going forward while hoping the other 5 you mentioned can provide some depth. Besides with both in rebuild mode that trade is highly unlikely. Hahn has not given any indication that he would trade multiple prospects for 1 prospect.

I could have worded it better but once you saw .330 it should have have tipped you off that when I said " hurt last year" , meaning he was hurt in 2018 .The "before" meaning prior to 2018 (2017) he hit .330.

Did you mean to say "if they can't land a big fish instead of "can" because you only pull the reins back in a plan C if you can't land one of the big fish. If you land the big fish then you almost have to continue getting more free agents because getting that big fish moves the timeline for the rebuild up especially if them landing the big fish comes with a fairly early opt out.

I think both of you are quality posters but SS2K5 wants to win like the rest of us. He wouldn't be here otherwise posting his opinions on the best course the rebuild can take if he didn't want to see the Sox win. Now he might not take the losing as badly as some people do but a team you love that wins is a team you love even more. Even he probably can't deny that.

Yea I think he will too , at least I hope so. Sometimes its not that hard. Last year the only 2 FA I picked picked were Moustaskas because he was super cheap w a draft pick attached to him and JD Martinez. If remember the threads about Moose well because even others advocating for him besides me were throwing out 3/4yrs $35/40M and I kept saying wait he's not going to cost that much. But most here didn't want to sign any FA because it was too early in the rebuild. Martinez ended up with a career year and KC traded Moose for some decent talent. The draft pick we would have ended up losing was Steele Walker and I think what KC got in return was better . Of course in fairness that remains to be seen. Hahn could've got different players for Moose better or worse and Walker has a long way to go to prove himself.

1st of all your stats are off , not by much but stats are the easiest thing to get accurate. LaRoche hit .259 not .277 . 277 was his BABIP 2nd.Actually if you were to revisit that thread after the trade a lot of us foresaw it being a bad move. He couldn't hit lefties any more and yet the Sox kept hitting him against lefties. Throw in that we were already leery of a LH guy named Adam from the NL .

And before Avi was hurt last year he hit .330 like actually in the big leagues not as a highly ranked minor league guy.

Exactly. Mostly for the reasons I outlined.

Any time you trade 3 prospects for 1 prospect that means you are risking 3 future major leaguers against one. If the one fizzles or gets hurt and the 3 become good its becomes a terrible trade worst case scenario. Best case is you don't make the trade and get 3 very good major leaguers instead of 1. There is strength in numbers.

Hahn is not going to trade prospects for only 2 years of control. I can see a prospect for prospect trade but prospects will be given every chance to develop into core pieces. Right now we can buy whoever we want without prospects being the currency. Sign some FA's to 1/2/3 maybe even a 4 yr deal depending on position and they can either be used to win or traded to make room for the prospects. That way payroll may start out high but get lower when the prospects fill in . If we trade the FA's down the road they can be used to fill gaps on the 25 or get more prospects and free up payroll for guys in arbitration years. and keep the window open for a longer period of time.

Admittedly I m one of his biggest advocates. If we gathered up all the Avi sucks posts before he hit .330 and then combined them with all the non tender Avi posts after this year we could probably come up with 500 posts. Hell ,even in my grandiose vision of the Sox contending this year I had the Sox trading Abreu and non tendering Avi to free up salary to sign FA's to put around either Harper or Machado,even though I can envision AVi doing JD Martinez type things (see my post at the top of this page). Now I know Avi doing JD Martinez type things is a long shot but so was anyone thinking he could hit .330. I'm really hoping to hear that Avi worked with the same guys who changed JDM's swing and approach some time this off season.

Could be a blessing in disguise.

Wha'ts your problem with it ?

Still need to hang onto our prospects. Normally you would use free agency to supplement the draft picks who become part of the core. This year perhaps makes it the other way around. If we land Machado /Harper/Eloy it moves the competitive window up and perhaps we add more free agents , maybe even enough to become fairly competitive right away given the right set of circumstances ( progress by Moncado,Gio, Rey and Cleveland downsizing a bit). If we become competitive right away that gives our prospects still in the minors another year of development. If the FA pieces we put around H/M have 1/2/3 yr deals they can be traded in any year of their deal or kept for purposes of winning. The longer we keep productive FA agents the longer we have to let Robert , Madrigal, Dunning , Cease, Sheets , Rutherford , Gonzales etc. to become finished products and also allowed Kopech Burger to heal. We can work the prospects into the 25 man roster when the time is right and to replace the FA's we end up trading off thus cutting payroll and staying competitive while allowing arb raises to the older successful prospects if Moncada and company show improvement. I know it's backwards from the usual process but it can actually work out better and keep the window open longer.

Who wouldn't love a Canadian pitcher with a maple leaf tat nicknamed the Big Maple. Even eagles love him. https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/bald-eagle-mistakes-james-paxton-for-a-real-big-maple-tree-during-pregame/

X4

As big and strong as AVi is he could have just as many HR's as JD with a sucessful swing change. At this point Avi's really got nothing to lose.

Nice to have Allen Robinson back with Mack. TD Bears !

BEAUTIFUL opening drive. XP sucked,

Jinxed

Part of my arguments in the past for Avi was that he is the closest thing we have to a JD Martinez. Basically they are the same size . They both show decent power to the opposite field They can hit for average. Difference is JD started working with some people who made changes to him in his off season before the Astros let him go. He didn't really even get much of a chance in the spring training after he made those changes. I also suggested Avi work with those same guys who worked with JDM. Since it was the Astro's who wanted him maybe they saw or see the same things in AVi and JDM that I have. After all we have all lauded Houston's ability to see talent. If you search" JD Martinez changed his swing" you will see all kinds of articles and videos on his approach right now.

Same argument I've put forth for months and being shot down. But hey baseball debate is always fun. If Avi gets non tendered you could actually non tender Delmonico, Cordell, Tilson, Leury, Davidson, Engel all who have either been injured or never had the kind of season Avi has while being mostly the same age or a year younger,