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Not against hustling just not be naive to the fact that a bunch of guys slow up on balls that appear to be outs which they probably are 98% of the time. Your point is still moot . Would you rather have a much less talented players who gives 100% or a guys like Machado who get 5/6 WAR a year his way ? If you don't like his lack of hustle when you see it boo him. But I think you will be cheering lot more than booing if we are fortunate enough to get him.

I agree but will Harper and or Machado agree? That's the key. They might only take the Sox seriously if they show them the window isn't 2+ years away.

Just to be accurate they are not entering their primes. I don't see how you could expect either one to have better seasons than they have already put up the last five years. I'd say they are and have been in their primes with a reasonable expectation to continue those kinds of years for another 3-5 years.

I don't think its prudent either but I can see the improbable happening. As Sox fans the improbable happening is what we have to hang our hats on most years.

That's what I figured Plus I wouldn't require any props for being a visionary.

I've been arguing in the other thread about Eloy that the Sox really could be looking to open the window sooner. We're now seeing the Sox interest in Machado/Harper starting and relief pitching, A really good off season along with Cleveland FA losses and looking to move some salary and you never know how it all turns out in 2019. Cleveland isn't looking to rebuild but they will be a lot less formidable .

I'll give it 1-5% .Still very long odds but I'm open to the possibility . If they do make the playoffs I'm sure you would happily have your "0 chance" post shown all around here.

I'm not arguing that but with some FA agent signings , a good Eloy and improvement from Moncada ,and some other youngsters it's not impossible, Improbable ? Hell yes . We can revisit this in February when you are most likely right but until then I can dream a little.

If you had read the rest of my posts I mentioned Machado, 2 starters maybe 2 relievers, adding at the deadline and Moncada improvement ..If Hahn says it could be at the beginning of the season why can't I ? If its just lip service by Hahn I'm sure if he's willing to spend a lot this off season he has envisioned that the window could open sooner than expected . Having Eloy for 14 or so games might make a difference it might not, probably wont . There are plenty of people on the board drooling at the slight possibility of getting Machado and Harper . All I'm saying is get one, then the pitching and go from there and see how the rest of the off season goes. Right now nothing is written in stone.

Well at least you aren't dismissing it completely now , That's all I ask.

And i would have agreed with that a few weeks ago but now there's talk of adding Machado and some starting pitching. All depends on how the off season goes. I think there's a 95% chance it's April 15th . Just throwing possibilities out there . Gotta find the silver lining where I can.

Well i did edit what you quoted to include an unlikely death in that time. So much can happen in 6 years I'd rather take his early years than bank on still being in contention 6 years down the road . Its most likely that when the window opens we'll be lucky to contend for a world title in 3 of those years with the less likely scenario being at the end of his contract. So if the window opens in 2019 make the most of it. Again I really don't see it happening next year but it could. I'll talk to you more about it when I see how the off season goes. In all likelihood it'll be best to wait til April 15th.

I'm not sure because if the window is open right away it might not be open for that 7th year. Alot can happen by his last year. You never know if a player can make it that far if he drives around the DR a lot in the off season.

They could be if its a close race . Most serious contenders do don't they because of injuries or weaknesses or bolstering depth. Even the mighty Red So did with Eovaldi and Pearce and those guys were vital adds. Depends on what you have left to spend.

And if someone had made that argument it would be but I didn't. No matter what you say you cannot condense what I said into that one sentence. If you want to quote what I said and respond to it go ahead. If you are going to use your own words to paraphrase and hyperbolize what I said to make your weak argument look stronger and get a few laughs I can handle it . But know this, a person who has to resort to insults and lies in an otherwise civil discourse to directly turn it into a war of words is reprehensible.

You don't play as many games as Manny does without dogging it at some point. How many times do you see players getting hurt sprinting to 1st base, running the bases and sliding I would imagine many many many times we have seen it. I don't know what your point is anyway. If you think Machado is a worthwhile acquisition for the Sox your point about him not hustling is moot.

But having Trout/Eloy in for 2 weeks or 2 really hot weeks versus his replacement could theoretically.

Do you include adding pieces at the trade deadline? 90 wins could easily win the division in 2019.

That's what I think too because it would take a helluva off season. But say you get a typical Machado season of 5/6 WAR. Say Eloy puts up3/4 WAR. They sign Corbin/Eovaldi/Happ or 2 of the 3 and they put up really good numbers . Let say Donaldson puts up 3/4 WAR for us ,Moncada puts up 3/4/5 WAR They sign another good reliever or 2. All those FA's combined probably don't cost as much as both Harper and Machado. Then how do feel about it ?

Yea I said 500 times a year and it might be more if you take plate appearances and minus the K's and HR's in Manny case thats around 500 to 600 plus times a year. if you want him to sprint out every GO and FO. Now if your going for double and triples than its 60 or 90 yards. Then there's all the times you get a hit or walk or HBP and you have to sprint more to the other bases or to score on those hits or sac flays. Then you throw in all the slides . Did you slide on your elliptical ? Then throw in all the wear and tear from fielding your position and all the air travel , changing time zones. These are all things you left out conveniently The silliest argument you can make if that you riding your elliptical is comparable to playing ML baseball in all weather conditions

I brought up his name a week or 2 ago but that was before I thought they were serious abuut signing Machado. Now I think they aim higher and if you can get Pomeranz cheap you still could.

Thing is we're not sure yet if its a year or 2 too early, If the Sox think signing Machado opens up the window then Eloy starts the season on the team and they go for other free agents like pitching. This just confirms in my mind that there's no way they get both Machado and Harper. You get one and build around them either immediately or next year for sure to give the minor leaguers a chance to build more value for trades.

I honestly think it could be either way. A selling point to a Harper or Machado may rest on them 1st showing them they are serious about contending . The bad part is if they sign a front line starting pitcher or 2 and then don't get Machado or Harper it means you go to plan B which might be Ok lets see how many free agent are left after Machado or Harper signs. If I had to try to figure out who signs 1st of Harper /Machado I'd say it's Machado . Harper is a Boras player and Boras some times drags out signings. If both wait til January or Feb to sign that really puts the Sox in a tough position. If its the Sox plan to contend this year then they have to sign other players anyway so getting the less significant pieces 1st might be crucial.

And if you miss the playoff by 1 or 2 games you're not the one having to deal with the backlash of we wouldn't have missed the playoffs if we had Eloy for those 14 games. Once you decide the rebuild is over every game/season counts. Doubt our off season will be so spectacular that we are contenders in 2019 but if it is then having Eloy for every one of those games is important and even more important if he end up putting up really good numbers.

Well it truly might be the beginning of the season. Why ? Let's say the off season is very successful . You get either Harper or Machado and you sign a top line starting pitcher or two and a few relievers and Donaldson for a few years. That might signal the rebuild is over. If all that happens then every game starting in 2019 means something since Cleveland will have some free agents losses and may trade other crucial pieces. If the Sox can stay neck and neck with Cleveland they can add pieces at the deadline. Having Eloy for a full season rather than missing a month might be the different between making or not making the playoffs.