CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 06:01 AM) This should be explored by the Sox. I don't understand why the Braves wouldn't have insisted on getting a prospect back. It doesn't make sense for one team to bail out another financially without getting prospects back. The Stanton trade was the same. Why would the Marlins not insist on one of the Yankees' top 5 prospects in addition to taking Castro's contract? About Stanton. The Marlins were in no position to insist on anything. There main goal was dump as much of the salary as possible or pretty much keep Stanton and his salary. They were the beggars in this scenario with only 1 team that could give them a hand out and that was the Yankees. That gives the Yanks the upper hand. The yankees could clearly contend without Stanton but could new Marlin ownership deal with having an unhappy Stanton and his salary ? Desperation means you can't make demands in a trade.

Let's try the reverse jinx. I think the O's wait til the trade deadline when teams are more desperate.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 06:16 AM) I was just thinking that recently. It seems the Saad trade as well as all of the moves this past off season have caused them to take another step back this season. Not sure I would blame the moves. I know weird time to say this since now they have strung together some wins but Toews is a good player just not what he was when the Hawks were winning Cups. What is this like the 3rd year in a row he hasn't been as productive as we expect he could be ? Also Keith absolutely sucks on the PP. I have seen him make so many telegraphed passes. He's just not creative enough and scoring no goals thus far isn't a big help either. I was actually pleased to see Franson getting more time on the PP. WHen you are glad about that something is wrong.

QUOTE (mac9001 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:52 PM) Really surprising they didn't draft an arm. Makes you think they're going to sign some proven big league arms to fill out the bullpen. I thought they might too but despite the slow movement in free agency , relievers are getting signed quickly and probably for more than expected. Didn't Swarzak get signed for more than Michael Pineda did ? That was kind of shocking to me but I might be missing something.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 06:58 PM) Who? If you expect me to go through this entire thread to find it to satisfy your curiosity then you would be wrong. You are perfectly capable of doing that yourself. Trust me you will find it but it may take a few hours. I'm not just making it up.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) People from KC apparently http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104407 Edit: I'm sorry, I meant the "baseball world." Not just the starter of that thread there was another one I saw in this thread. And quite a few more saying it would move the window up a year when I actually think it'll hurt prospect depth that could be used at a later date and would also mean if it is done to move the window up a year then you probably have to avoid trading Abreu and Avi because trading them now sets the window back again and wouldn't be a winning culture that may be required to entice Machado to resign with the Sox. I don't think having him for a year will entice him to resign with the Sox because he only wants to play SS now to maximize his value playing SS for a year right before Free agency and minimize the risk to his knees. All a very calculated risk on his part to get the big payday . It backfires only if his bad knees don't hold up.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:23 PM) Has anyone actually said this? Yes

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 06:58 AM) After so much regurgitation, here's a nugget of something new. Thanks Ron. ( virtual fist bump )... Thank u Trev. I was actually wondering if my post would go un commented upon since its a very long thread and even good posts get ignored. I just don't get the give up prospects and sell him on the White Sox theme. It's foolhardy at best and ridiculous on any level.He has a chance of a lifetime to get the best contract ever given out in baseball history and is doing everything he can do maximize his value in order to get it. Also anyone thinking the Sox can catch lightning in a bottle and make the playoffs is similiarly delusional. They need a bullpen badly and the starting pitching probably isn't up to snuff yet either.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:39 AM) This is why, I'm sure, the Sox are pursuing him now. I would hope that it works. I think it would be difficult for the Sox to sign him next off season when there will be plenty of suitors who will be willing to pay a s*** ton of money. OK lets look at some facts. Manny Machado is a gold glove 3rd baseman. Manny Machado has 2 bad knees. So why would he want to switch to SS ? Answer : To maximize his value. A premier SS is worth more than a corner infielder. So why would he wait till now to want to switch to SS ? Because he knows he has 2 bad knees and playing SS for 1 year right before free agency minimizes the health risk rather than doing it for multiple years. Conclusion : No way in hell does Manny Machado not become a free agent. This is a calculated move on his part to make himself more valuable. It is a pipedream to think otherwise and would be a waste to offer anything to acquire him for a year and think he won't test free agency.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 11:59 PM) That Shark trade smells like Kenny. A vet pitcher who was brought in to go for it. Machado is coming to be a part of the rebuild if it happens. I trust Hahn in this rebuild because his moves have been excellent. This is what I mean when I say I have no reason to doubt him. Building the team, and not simply trying to go for it with an average team has gone much better. So those Hahn quotes Tony showed you was just Hahn being a good soldier ?

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 11:52 PM) www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93812&st=0&start=0 Without even looking at it I am pretty sure I argued all along that the chances of resigning him was zero and those thinking it would happen were delusional.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 12, 2017 -> 05:58 PM) luck and better defense and running. Avi improved, but he improved into a 2 WAR starter. Not a 4 WAR star. There is like .0000001 chance he has a .397 BABIP next year. Regress that down to a still high .340 and suddenly he's a 2 WAR RF with a 270/330/450 line. I don't know man . I mean I agree with the better defense and improved speed/running and with some degree of luck hitting too. But .330 ? Why did all the luck all of a sudden show up in 1 season ? IF you want to say he was a lucky hitter so be it, but if you are going to do that then maybe say luck was half of it and the other half was he actually improved as a hitter because he finally decided to become serious about conditioning and quite possibly matured as a hitter . Even the flawed process improved . Maybe didn't show up in walk totals but he hit lot better within the strike zone and his K's decreased so he obviously did a lot right.

Time to bust out the old Samardzija threads.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 11:26 PM) I don't disagree with the statement on Shark. Sure people thought we'd re-sign him, but my point is that trade should have never been made to begin with. His numbers weren't that good, especially not worthy of the deal he wanted anyway. He is James Shields with a little more height. I think Hahn is going after him because he knows it'll be tough to talk any of the big FA's into coming here without some type of boost. If 6 teams offer 10/300, we aren't winning that race. Maybe Hahn had Castilo chat with him and heard back that he would have to test Chicago out first before signing a deal. Either way, I think Hahn knows what he is doing and I have no reason to doubt him after these past 12 months. Hahn may be doing a great job with the rebuild but the Samardzija thing was a disaster and Hahn was the guy who did that. So you trust Hahn but think the Samardzija deal was a terrible thing that Hahn did ? So has he earned your trust because of the rebuild but all of a sudden it's not a rebuild it's a trade just like the Samardzija trade ? Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) He isn't Machado. Shark wasn't nearly the level of player Machado is and he wasn't worthy of re-signing after his one year here. You know how many people thought Samardzija was a great candidate to resign with the Sox ? This board had a ton of posters just like you with Machado thinking Samardzija would not test free agency. The fact that Machado is way better than Samardzija makes it even more likely he becomes a FA.Even if he thinks Chicago is great, Hahn is great, the players are great the field is great , the fans are great and the Sox will be serious contenders for a World Series he will still become a free agent. If the Sox truly want him get him as a Free agent at least that way there's another year of development and Kopech and Jimenez are on the Sox at mid season they keep ABreu and Avi and both have good years and the young starting pitchers continue to grow and our other top prospects put up some good numbers. The Sox may be even more attractive in a years time but right now the Sox need to let th rebuild continue to grow. Can you imagine getting Machado for a year than Hahn trades Abreu and Avi not to mention whatever he gave up for Machado ? How the heck would that look to Machado ? It would be like 1 step forward and 3 steps back.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:36 PM) Then you don't give up anything of value for him right now. You're giving this front office way too much credit. Nailed it. Wasn't this the plan with Samardzija who grew up a Sox fan not far from the Chicagoland area ? Repeat after me Jeff Samardzija , Jeff Samadzija ....

I think the Sox take Burdi if he is available.

QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 04:51 AM) It is not at all realistic to compare the White Sox to the other team. For whatever reason the other team is a desirable destination with a national fan base and gets media attention. The other team had also hired a real manager and the White Sox hired the clown they canned to make room for said manager. The White Sox finish in the bottom in terms of TV ratings even in a good year and the media routinely forget they exist and even won a World Series. Players aren't completely stupid. Heck, even people on this site argue they should be considered a small market team. Also doesn't help that the one time they signed a big free agent was just for a couple years and was only a shot across the bow at the other owners. The one superstar they have had here in the last thirty years completely alienated owners and management and fans (or vice verse depending on your point of view). I do concede there is a chance that something that has never happened before can defy all logic and happen in the future and can unexpectedly even have some success. If I were betting though I'd take SonofaRoache's position without hesitation. But I do admire your optimism. Frank Thomas or Chris Sale ?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 08:10 PM) This is a franchise has created all kinds of relievers. The fact that we aren't talking about superstar relievers isn't a big surprise as there aren't that many out there in the first place. This team might have loaded up on relievers before, but this group is nothing like that. We are talking about multiple guys who have hit 103 in the same system. I would be curious how many teams have created multiple franchise type closers over that 13 year span. Hell even #1 in Chapman wasn't created by anyone. He came out of Cuba, so by your definition he apparently doesn't count. By my definition I said it was no big deal that Jenks came from the Angels, But OK when the Sox have the positions players and starting pitching to take them deep in the playoffs but not a dominant pen remember all this discussion on the Sox magically finding World Series worthy relief from our minor league system. I'm not saying the Sox won't have the pen necessary to win a World Series just that I think a couple of pieces are acquired from outside the organization either by trade or free agents.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2017 -> 05:13 AM) The Sox turned Bobby Jenks out at the top of the list. Kind of was waiting for the Jenks answer . He came from the Angels and while that in itself is not a big deal you could only name one and that was 13 years ago. Can we really expect anyone to just become a dominant RP with only a year or 2 in the bigs from our minors ? The Sox loaded up and guys who could throw hard before in the Aardsma era and that didn't work out so well.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) We have so many 70 to 80 arms in the system it is physically impossible for them to all end up as major league starters. We also have a subset of arms in that group who are already relievers only. We have a potentially dominant and deep bullpen in our minors as we speak today. For the burnout rate of relievers, and for the cost of them, there is no reason for us to go out and spend money on them until it is time to contend and we know exactly what holes we need to fill in the specifically. I listed like 15 to 20 names of before, but suffice to say we have guys. We just need to give them time to find out if they can be The Guys. When was the last time the Sox had a guy like Chapman, Jensen, Miller , Britton, a Wade Davis type when he was at the top of his game ? That's what you are going to need and then a guy just a notch below them. A potential dominant and deep bullpen in our minors now ? I haven't seen 1 dominant RP pitcher ever come from the Sox minors no matter how good the system was .

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 09:22 AM) While the bullpen right now is filled with question marks, I think we have quite a few arms in place that could fill key roles within the next year or so. Assuming Burdi comes back healthy, he's pretty nuch a lock to become a solid high leverage reliever. Same goes for Nate Jones, although his record of health is becoming more concerning. Vieira has significant potential and Fulmer could be a multi-inning weapon. Guys like Stephens or Adams could also fill a role. If you can get three quality relievers out of that group, that's a pretty good starting point from the right side. From the left-side, just got to hope one of Bummer or Frye (or maybe even Clark) can at least be a solid second lefty. But if all that does happen, we can then go out and add two quality relievers in free agency next year (one lefty, one right) to put the finishing touches on what could be a pretty damn good bullpen. Most of you guys responding are making building a dominant pen sound easy. Most mentioning failed starters as instant success as relievers. Take a look at top RP of the playoff teams. Mist of them are vets well established with their teams. Out of all the youngsters the Sox will be lucky to come up with one kid who can pitch quality innings for a World Series contending team. Not one of those guys is a lock and certainly not Burdi. Yes most RP's are notoriously inconsistent but the best ones do it year after year and we will need a couple guys like that . Guys like that just aren't magically available right when you need them. There are lots of other teams to compete with.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 7, 2017 -> 08:20 AM) Only way Carlos Gonzalez happens is if he's willing to take a one year deal as I don't think teams will be keen on going multi years after his rapid decline. He was a below replacement level player this year and will likely have to take a 1 year deal to try and reestablish value. Relievers in our price range will be hanging around in January waiting for a phone call or spring training invite. I don't expect us to shell out much dough or go multi year with free agents this offseason. Well how long do you think it'll take to build a dominant bullpen ? You absolutely need one to be serious about contending. That means 3 or possibly 4 guys the Sox don't have yet. I know it's pretty illogical to sign RP's to more than 2 or 3 years but the bullpen is my biggest worry for when the Sox start contending. I suppose this year could be all about trying the scrap heap relievers but guys who produce like we had like Robertson, Swarzak and Kahnle are going to be very hard to find.

It'll be either really interesting or totally boring. Maybe Sox sign a reliever or another signing that surprises us all . Sox won't be able to fill holes all in one or 2 off season in preparation for the contending years so it's possible we see more surprise signings. I predict a Swarzak signing. Don't expect a Carlos Gonzales signing. Just too Adam LaRoche-ish for my taste . I think CF need will be next thing Sox address outside of relief pitching.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 8, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) As one of Avi's biggest supporters I'm surprised I never posted in this thread but Ro Da Don basically said everything I would've said . It's hard for me to really understand how strongly negative the feelings are about him especially during a rebuild. Even his apologists are always somewhat apologetic about him because at time's he looks so bad. Other times he looks amazing like the first 4 games this year. One thing he always does is bust his ass down the first base line. I can't hate a guy who busts his hump like that. He deserves a little more respect for that alone, especially when guys loaf it pisses fans off just about more than anything . I could come up with reasons for his 2 errors so far but suffice it to say we've seen a lot of bad outfield defense so far due to weather conditions and not just on the Sox. Even I look at Avi with a jaundiced eye. I noticed that his 1st 3 or 4 hits were all ground balls .I was like what happened to him elevating balls ?Tools and strength do not always a player make but they help immensely when the on switch finally gets flipped.