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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) CarGo makes sense in that he will be the least expensive option is younger than Cespedes, plays RF, and fits in the three year window that the Sox supposedly do not want to surpass. I imagine a package would be built around Anderson and Fulmer to get the deal done with some other pieces thrown in there. Cargo and Cespedes are almost the exact same age. Cargo born 1 day before Cespedes.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) He was responding to a poster literally asking for a list of the tier 2/3 pitchers, chill. If a mod said stay on topic and I've seen it many times would you tell them to chill ? It was a polite suggestion .

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 05:59 PM) Ian Kennedy, Latos, Fister, Chen (probably too expensive, at one point Boras was aiming for $100 million) and Y.Gallardo are probably the top five remaining pitchers on the market. Except for Fister, all of them should be in the $12-16 million range. Latos might be on the lower end as well. Chen the upper end and probably unaffordable/Boras Factor. But you have to look at JA Happ's contract and think anything is possible with pitching contracts STILL, as well as Leake's deal with the Cardinals. These aren't dominating or frontline starters by any stretch of the imagination. There are other threads to talk about pitching. Just sayin' this the Cespedes threasd.

In the last 3 years Cespedes has 462 AB's with RISP . In those 462 AB's he has 191 RBI's . 191 !! With the bases loaded in the same time frame he has a .455 batting average , .788 slugging pct. and 1.220 OPS. OK only 33 AB's with bases loaded but still you get the point .

It's my personal opinion that Cespedes will sign ,at the minimum ,a 5 year contract. That would take him through his age 30, 31, 32, 33 and age 34 seasons. This is not unreasonable to expect . He has carried teams on his back a few times and has good defensive numbers. He is a run producer. He loves hitting with men on base. He has seen a sports psychologist to better prepare himself to perform and focus in situations that require a big hit. He is exactly what they need. You can gripe about him being inconsistent . All that means to me is that he only carried 2 teams on his back out of the 4 he's played for. (Oakland and Mets ) How many guys are even capable of that ? Harper ? Pujols in his prime ? Who could possibly be better to pair with Abreu ? How sweet would it be to have a 3,4 ,5 all capable of 30+ HR's ? Abreu and Cespedes are RBI machines.They will push each other to excellence. This needs to happen.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Where you at Bucket? rabbit? Feed the masses I don't understand the desire for inside info. Plenty of people on Soxtalk have analyzed the situation perfectly. Gordon would end up being the cheapest and most signable for lesser years. Common sense would tell you he would be the Sox 1st choice of the big 3. People on here were saying Upton to the Orioles as a threat almost a month ago. Also despite the many tweets linking the Sox to the big 3 it just means they have been trying and they'd be stupid not to with the market looking favorable. However ,as Rosenthal pointed out , MLB has money up the ying yang and sooner or later it comes to the forefront . The Sox do not f*** around with the bottom line very often so it's always made anyone of the Big 3 other than Gordon a long shot.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 08:32 AM) Good call. lefty bat too. It's not crazy. Something is holding up everything and it might actually be (in part) us. With this chasing Gordon thing (also a lefty bat) Sox have no ammo left for another big trade. They got nothing left in the minors close to ML ready and the high upside guys left down there are guys the Sox want to keep. They would create another hole trading from the 25 man roster. They have to keep Anderson because he is the heir apparent at SS. Have to keep Fulmer because Danks probably goes bye -bye after this year. Have to keep Quintana unless they get the " small army" they've been looking for and there's no depth with Montas gone.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 07:35 AM) If we get him, great. If not, easy to live with not paying him 100 million dollars based off of a career year at 30 Just for the sake of accuracy Cespedes was 29 last year not 30. Albert Belle came off of a pretty huge year before the Sox signed him and for his age 30 season with the Sox his numbers did drop but that 2nd year with the Sox at age 31 he was back to being a monster again. Of course Belle had many established seasons with the Indians unlike Cespedes who hasn't been around that long. Imagine if Cespedes ,after some time in both leagues, has a better idea now of what to expect. He could have a few more huge years ahead of him. His upside is the highest of any OF and his down side isn't as bad as Gorodn or Upton (since he would be switching leagues).

Not sure that this affects the Cespedes/Upton market much. Gordon always seemed to want to stay in KC. Cespedes/Upton probably are open to any team willing to pay. Don't have much hope the Sox land either one but I didn't from the beginning of the whole process. The best chance the Sox had was with Gordon because the contract would be shorter and less expensive . Now if they want Cespedes ( who was my 1st choice) they will have to pay dearly . Cespedes will be over $100M and probably easily over. The whole reason why I started the other thread on what options the Sox pursue if one of the big 3 wasn't signed (subsequent threads were all copycats ) was because it just never seemed likely to happen. Cespedes would sell tickets paired with Abreu and possibly more season tickets than last year. Question is do the Sox have the cojones ? Albert Belle signed with the Sox for his age 30 season. Here's hoping Cespedes is the Belle of this years ball . I will gladly look like a moron for my pessimism .

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 3, 2016 -> 04:05 PM) I have a good feeling something is gonna happen today There's a feeling I get when I look to the west.. I'm hooked on a feeling , I'm high on believin'... Feelings whoa ooh ohh feelings.. See me , feel me, touch me, heal me.... Cum on feel the noize... I feel like a number... I feel like makin, I feel like makin' love to you... I feel good. I knew that I would now.. And I can't fight this feelin' any more... And I got a peaceful, easy feeling... She's in love with me and I feel fine. I've gotta feeling, a feeling deep inside oh yeah .. When the dog bites When the bee stings When I'm feeling sad I simply remember my favorite things And then I don't feel so bad Edit: I keep adding more but if you want to kill time you can name the bands. Should be easy to anyone over ummm hmmm 45 ?? Yea go with 45 like the rpm record.

Best catcher Sox have had in my lifetime. I always know his birth date is 12/26/1947 because he is exactly 10 years older than me.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) He clearly meant 5/102. Then he better write what he means or edit it

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 06:06 AM) If they only want 3 years, then frontload, not backload. Offer Cespedes 3/102, with an opt out after 3. 24 per for 3 years, then it drops to 15 per for 2. Opt out after 3. 3/102 would be 34M/yr . 3/72 is 24M AAV .

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 03:27 PM) Couldn't this exact same phrase have been said after Adam Dunn's 2011 season? His tenure with the Sox after that wasn't perfect, but it was leaps and bounds better than 2011. I don't think LaRoche will be any different. The worst case scenario for him next season IMO is .210 or so with 15 homers. I've seen this said a few times and Dunn was 32 in 2012 and LaRoche wil be 36 . Pretty big difference . Not sure why I keep seeing so many people saying he will rebound. I hope he rebounds but expecting it is quite another thing. I expect him to be bad because he is over the hill. Blaming it on a hand injury which required no DL stint is just some way to justify misguided rebound talk. LaRoche said at one point late in the season that he would've benched himself 2 months before Ventura did. http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/adam-l...-two-months-ago. Also in that article: LaRoche continues to be mystified by the particulars of his struggles. He has had difficulty spotting any significant differences when he looks at video of his swing now compared with when he has had past successes. Whereas he didn't panic when he struggled earlier in the year, as he always has, LaRoche admitted "when you get on later in the year it gets more difficult." The only thing I could find in a limited search for an injury was patella tendinitis . "The lingering knee malady has kept LaRoche out of the lineup since Sept. 13, but he believes he originally suffered the injury two months ago". That was from Sept. 24 . From July 22: White Sox 1B Adam LaRoche believes struggles are mental by Marty Gitlin | CBSSports.com Struggling first baseman Adam LaRoche can only watch so much tape of his approach at the plate and swing. He realizes that his problems are more between his ears than what he sees on replay. LaRoche has been a dud in his first year in the Windy City. He is batting just .221 with nine home runs and 33 RBI in the middle of what should be a strong lineup. He is batting a mere .160 (8-for-50) with no taters and two RBI in July. "You keep swinging and you keep working," he told MLB.com. "There's only so much video you can watch, only so many things you can go back and look at that you think might have been different in the past. The fact is you just have to get in the box and be confident, expect good things to happen."

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 30, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) Lol wut? OK geez some of you guys... His "see you next year "comment doesn't mean he thinks what Nightengale said is contradictory . It means see you next year ,like in a few days is next year guys. They aren't close to signing anyone so give it a few more days.. next year, get it ?

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Dec 29, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) I believe raBBit tweeted earlier today that 2 ain't happening. Astounding that anyone actually needs confirmation from Bugs Bunny that the Sox wouldn't be signing 2 high priced free agent OFers. Inside sources don't take the place of common sense. I'm still coming to grips that the Sox would even sign one of them and I still won't believe it til it's confirmed.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) A Parra/Avi platoon in RF would be better than league average offensively. Avi kills the defense platoon, but I am not ready to call Parra (the strong side of the platoon) a bad defender quite yet. He was among the best in the league a mere 2 years ago. LF - Gordon CF - Eaton RF - Parra/Avi platoon DH - Melky Late inning defensive replacement / PH - LaRoche That alignment IMMENSELY improves the OF defense and gives the Sox a great lineup. This is the best case scenario in my mind. It would be way too expensive unless you can get Parra on a 1 year deal . Rather see Parra money go to address starting pitching depth .Ideally you get someone exactly like Trayce Thompson (cheap, good defensively, power, offensive upside) to play RF and eliminate Avi altogether by trade or sending him to the minors. Late in the game do you want Avi in the OF if he pinch hit for Parra ? I sure don't. Also Parra may not be suited for CF any more. It's probably why his defensive ratings were way down. The 4th OF needs to be able to back up CF . Getting Trayce back would be a lot less expensive than paying too much for the likes of Parra who fell off a cliff from his NL hitting once he got to Baltimore. Bring back Trayce, bring back Trayce !

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 26, 2015 -> 05:56 PM) That would seem the plan for now. Melky LF, Avi/LaRoche DH and the Sox make a move for a right fielder. I could be way the hell off base with this but I think alot of the Gordon speculation is due to the media. The Sox were rumored to be quite high on Upton long before the media ran with the Gordon hype. Upton and Cespedes have been eerily quiet so the media needed something to run with. Avi or LaRoche will be gone imo. How can they possibly carry both ? If one of the Big 3 is signed then Avi becomes 4th OF for which he is ill-suited defensively. Or he's in the minors.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 06:05 AM) It should be a RH hitting OF that plays good defense as the 4th guy. Someone like Austin Jackson. This would allow you to rotate the DH spot among the OF's vs LHP Or someone like Trayce Thompson. Just get him back from the Dodgers. Then he could play RF and be backup CF or be the ideal 4th OF.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 25, 2015 -> 03:54 AM) Nah I was laughed at and made fun of yesterday at the possibility of Gordon signing for close to 70 mil. Obviously he has to sign for 5 years/100 mil because that's what's expected even though there are like 2 teams in on him and one offered around 50 mil. Not sure why anyone would scoff at Gordon getting close to the $70M range. KC is out after lowballing him. It's been reported he wants to stay in the mid-west. I think it's most likely the Sox didn't offer a significant amount above KC's offer which was reportedly 12/13M for 4 years. Perhaps the Sox offered 4/ 17-18 which would be $68/72M. His agent is probably still sticking to the $20M AAV figure if he's going to accept 4 years instead of 5. The Cardinals have been talking to the Rockies about an OF ,perhaps they jump back into the Gordon fray . They fit his profile.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 24, 2015 -> 06:53 AM) To be honest, were both making assumptions. I am assuming Fulmer will be ready for '17 but you're assuming the Brewers would be interested in taking on both contracts in Danks and LaRoche. You're also assuming Garza will be better for the Sox and if he isn't the SOX rotation will be down graded by such a trade which is not good for a team trying to be a contender. Do the Sox really need to spend 13M for a long reliever in Garza if Fulmer is ready in '17? Just my opinion but I would much rather have the contracts of Danks and LaRoche for one more season than Garza's contract for 2-3 more. I still think a better option would be to look into trading Danks for some lower minor league depth and sign Jackson on the cheap. I doubt Jackson would be any worse than Garza. Plus, Jackson can probably be had for a cheap one year deal so the risk is much less than Garza in both the short and long term. LOL It's a fantasy trade just like any fantasy trade . It goes without saying that I assume both teams are willing to do it. No sense in proposing it otherwise, I like your ideas I just don't like hanging onto LaRoche. Everybody's in happy talk mood now hoping praying wishing LaRoche has it in him to bounce back.I am one of the most optimistic guys here but guys retire after a season like LaRoche just had at his age. Why on earth would I want his total suckitude again ? A bounce back ? To what .220/ 300. /420 ? Still sucks and his bat isn't getting any faster. Oh yea right he had an injury which never required a stay on the DL . Garbage excuses. Don't need him at DH when we still have Melky, Avi and Abreu and won't need him even more if we sign Gordon. I also never said or even assumed Garza would be better for the Sox . I actually think it's ugly to even think about . Danks is the better pitcher but it's a 5th starter who knows who's going to be better in 2016. The whole reason why I did all that math and proposed the whole thing is because LaRoche is a huge freakin' anchor messing up the 25 man roster , taking up valuable space. He should do us all a favor and retire. I thought the trade would appeal to the Brewers because they make $3.25M in the proposed trade, get an innings eater who might be the better pitcher than Garza , and they only have to wait until after 2016 to be rid of both of them instead of after 2017 to be rid of Garza. On the Sox side they free up one position player roster spot on the 25 which should mean a lot since they seem to be going for it again and it spreads out the money in crap contracts from 1 year to 2 years. I think out of all the posters I read you are the guy who thinks the most like me so I hope I didn't offend you with anything I said. Merry Christmas !

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 04:28 PM) About 10 years ago I used to post drunken polls. They would offend some, lead to temp bans, and confuse many. Here during the offseason lull... It's time for a revival. Pick one or be forever shamed. All mods... If you even THINK of moving this to another forum, you will receive a mighty rath! However, a pin will lead to a panda bear hug. Don't let your new supermodel GF/wife see this unless of course she's thinks your sense of humor is colorful . Ahh what we love at first often becomes annoying . Keep that in mind .

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 05:31 PM) Garza has good stuff and I just cannot understand how he's become so bad. The problems I see with the Danks for Garza idea are 1) the Sox would be paying him for at least the '16/'17 seasons and possibly '18 and 2) assuming EJ sticks in the rotation, Danks becoming a FA after '16 opens a spot for Fulmer in '17 but if the Sox have Garza they have to try and figure out how to move him to create room for Fulmer. If Garza doesn't improve, he will be difficult to move in a trade, just like Danks has been the last few years. With the way the cost of starting pitching has escalated, Danks is worth pretty close to his '16 salary. One idea could be to trade Danks for perhaps a few low level minor leaguers and try to sign Edwin Jackson on the cheap. I'm not a fan of Jackson by any means but he can be had for relatively cheap which allows the Sox to take the savings and use it towards a FA bat. Jackson seemed to work well with Cooper so it could work, in theory. Not something I would bet the house on, just an idea. 1st you assume Fulmer is ready in '17 . Let's say he is. Garza goes to long relief . That way it's guaranteed he won't reach the goals he needs to to get that 2018 contract . It's doubtful he accomplishes it anyway since he's already behind on the number of starts he would need to make in order for it to vest along with some health goals he could not meet too If they sign one of the Big 3 the budget is shot but not by too much the 1st year from what I proposed. So might as well just sign someone like Jackson because the SP depth sucks anyway. Probably will be plenty of FA's who end up taking 1 year deals.

Seems like this thread was borrowed from page 3 of this thread http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97784 which was LaRoche and Danks for Garza. I broke it all down after having some questions which were answered about Garza's contract on page 4 of that thread. Garza's contract is 2-3 years depending on reaching certain goals in order for his contract to vest for the 3rd year . Most likely his contract will be 2 years totaling $25M. Add up Danks and LaRoche contracts for this year and its $28.75M My take was Sox must throw in around $7M (3.5M in 2016 and same in 2017 )for the Brewers to even consider it . Thus the Sox would be taking on $25M and paying the Brewers $7M for a grand total of $32M while they get rid of $28.75M. So the Sox spend an extra $3.25M to free up salary this year . 32 minus 3.5 minus 12.5 equals $16M saved in 2016 while they take on 3.5 +12.5 =$16M in 2017. They would be getting rid of LaRoche freeing up the DH position for Melky and freeing up a roster spot. Makes the salary of someone like Gordon or Cespedes more palatable at least for the 1st year of the contract. Hahns thing is contracts so he could work the numbers however he wanted to in order to minimize the 2nd year where they are paying Garza $12.5M and the Brewers $3.5M. 1 less DH on the roster full of bad defensive players who might convert to DH is a good thing. Paying a little more than half of LaRoche's salary is better then paying for most of it in another trade or eating the whole thing as a sunk cost. Hahn wanted creative. This is it. Try to get Trayce back from the Dodgers and the Sox have their good defensively backup OF who can play all 3 OF positions while Gordon /Upton/Cespedes will play LF or RF or have Trayce start in CF and move Eaton to LF/RF depending on which of the Big 3 the Sox sign. Melky plays once in a while in LF .

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) Thanks for the numbers crunching on Garza's contract, it doesn't seem as much of an albatross as previously thought. So what scenario would you rather push your chips in on? The possibility of a Laroche bounce back in 2016, or a Garza bounce back in 2016? If the overall money is actually that close on a potential Danks/Laroche for Garza trade, is it worth taking a chance on Garza rebounding to a .500 pitcher with Coop's help in order to opening up the dh role? All predicated on singing one of the big 3 outfielders, of course... Ha wait I crunched the numbers I just needed clarification on how a vesting option works, So now it's 1 year of Danks and 1 one of LaRoche is $28.75M and 2 years of Garza is $25M. It's highly doubtful he accomplishes what's needed to extend his contract to 2018 since he's already behind on the number of games he would need to start for the contract to vest. To make it worth while for the Brewers ( if the Sox found this move attractive) they could throw some cash the Brewers way, maybe $7M ( give them $3.5 M for 2 years )which would be basically half of LaRoche salary. So it would be like trading $32M for 28.75 million , gets LaRoche and Danks off the roster this year and frees up money this year and opens a roster spot. Makes Garza the 5th starter instead of Danks which actually sounds terrifying. Sign Gordon or Cespedes to play LF/RF , move Melky to DH . Trade or send Avi to the minors. He has no place on the team even as a platoon DH since that would make him a 4th OF and 4th OFers should be good defensively. Explore trades for good defensive young guys who can play RF/CF (Jackie Bradley Jr, Inciarte etc.) Hey Trayce Thompson get him back . Maybe the Dodgers take Avi for him . Get some starting pitching depth and see what Matt Albers would take to resign. Sorry Jacob Turner and Kahnle just don't do it for me. End of off season . Playoffs here we come. Payroll goes to hell if I know after all these moves and pretend moves. But it is creative since that's what Hahn keeps saying he needs to be financially.