CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) Why would Toronto trade him for a bag of balls though, especially to a team they're competing with? He serves a purpose on their team. Don't forget, the 70-92 MN Twins DFA'd him last season after a similarly hot start to the year. I think the reason you're getting such a negative response is that you actually proposed trading Shark for him. I also proposed trading B level prospects for him . I'd obviously prefer that but I'd also prefer any package of decent minor leaguers for Shark also. Also saying a package similar to Price's is ridiculous . Shark isn't close to Price but still could get a package between what Tigers got for Price and a comp pick . There's a lot of in between there. But the comp pick is worst case scenario. Yes even worse than Colabello , maybe not to some of course I think the Sox can compete for the WC without Shark if they get a bat, a reliever ,and use Eric Johnson. It's not likely but it's also not likely the team that sucked all year is going to continue its run without hitting help and there isn't much of it available that doesn't hurt the future.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:29 AM) Why does everyone think that hitters coming from the NL to the AL will struggle? Because it happened to a couple guys the White Sox signed in the past five years? Why shouldn't we be wary of .250 power hitting high K guys coming from the NL ?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:16 AM) Yeah, off the waiver wire maybe to be in a DH platoon or occasional fill in 1B. He should never ever be in the OF, and you definitely don't trade one of the best 25 SP in the game for him. He sucks, man. Yeah he can hit LHP a bit, but that is it. He is a really cool story though. If Shark isn't traded it's a comp pick most likely who will never make it to the show. When the Sox don't grab a big bat or give up our prospects for a free agent you'll be singing a different tune about how stupid the Sox are for giving up prospects or not trading Samardzija. I can see it coming . Maybe not you specifically but many on here.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:05 AM) Come on man, that is brutal. I'm being realistic . All this stuff about Upton and Bruce just ain't happening and Colabello's OPS+ is 132 Upton's is 116 and he's a FA next year, Bruce 125 another .250 NL hitter likely to hit .230 in AL and free agent in 2017 ,Cespedes 125 and a free agent. All likely to want one of our top 5 prospects. The Sox need a bat who doesn't get paid much and won't ravage the farm . Have you even looked at Colabello's hitting stats this year ? Right now the way the Sox are built without much power Colabello has 9 but is hitting .312. He wouldn't kill rallies with that high average plus he'd be tied for 2nd on the Sox in HR's.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 08:00 AM) Yikes. And Colabello is a 1B that the jays play in the OF out of necessity. He actually would be much worse than Avi. He also just generally sucks balls at baseball...I can guarantee you the Sox have zero interest in him unless its virtually free. Can't argue with the year he's having though . He's been pounding the ball. And if the Sox can get him for peanuts and no Shark he's perfect to get a lot of AB's as a PH and DH against lefties. Sox do need a bat and that's what he is. Surprisingly Toronto still might want to keep him since he's been great there. Toronto lacks depth in the outfield. Their rookie 2nd baseman has a sore shoulder and Bautista a troubling hamstring. They're still looking for pitching and position players.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 07:49 AM) I doubt it. And even if they did, there is zero chance they would trade him for a rental for a shot at a 1 game playoff. I don't believe they would either but he might be on the short list of our top prospects along with Montas with whom to trade for a non rental. Actually our top 5 prospects could all be top 100 guys if they hadnt either faltered some ( Eric Johnson ) or been brought up(Micah Johnson) Montas, Anderson, Fulmer all in MLB Pipeline's top 100 plus EJ used to be until his meltdown but has come back very strong and Micah would be quite high if only he could field decently.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 07:41 AM) So they aren't trading Anderson, you know they love Micah,so it would take a whole lot to get him, and Montas surely won't move for a rental. The Sox are going to be hanging on to their top guys. No need to get riled up over nothing. I'm sure they love Micah a lot less now since Sanchez has emerged fielded so well and the stick has been on fire.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 06:49 AM) Anyone else think we can make a potential run at the wild card spot even without Shark? If they dealt him for an MLB ready bat (or bat already in the majors with team control), I think Johnson can be solid enough to hold his own. It's possible. Toronto is overloaded with bats Maybe Shark for Chris Colabello . He probably makes Avi look like a good fielder though I haven't checked. Hitting.312 .839 OPS .900 against RH's . Is 31, journeyman mostly ,having career year . Equally good against righties and lefties batting average the same . Doesn't walk much but 132 OPS+. As you suggested it's possible still to win without Shark but maybe Toronto would still like him or might want something else for Colabello. If we trade Shark though an extra reliever might be good too considering Johnson most likely won't pitch late into games like Shark. Keep Shark and still get Colabello then could try Johnson in the 5 spot and move Danks to long relief. Have Danks start once in a while to limit Johnson's and Rodon's innings. Also it helps Toronto even more who is our competitor for the WC. And giving up Colabello without Shark seems unlikely unless they want a few B level prospects to restock their farm a bit after the trades they already made giving up their prospects.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 35s35 seconds ago To Dodgers: Wood, Latos, Morse, Avilan, Johnson, Peraza, Arroyo To Braves: Olivera, Paco, Bird, pick To Marlins: Brigham, Guzman, Araujo Holy balls that's a lot of players Morse isn't on the Dodgers , he's on the Marlins .Don't know if the rest is correct.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:38 PM) Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 1m1 minute ago Adam LaRoche felt OK during Weds game, going 1-for-4. Went to a wider base in stance. Hasn't done that in few years. Said it's a start. I wish Avi tried something new. Maybe he has and I just haven't noticed.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:35 AM) You had obviously read the same piece I had. This is why I have said I won't just DFA LaRoche. While I don't know if he'll be able to produce and get through the injury this year, I still think theirs a solid shot that he'll be a productive player for the club next year. After reading the article and about how LaRoche holds the bat/ I see a lot of players gripping the bat that way with their pinky on or below the knob. Abreu is one for sure. Isn't he also having a hand problem or is it a thumb ?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) I said in the game thread after the 2 hits that his OPS had to be over 1.500 post AS game Heard during the game with Sanchez' hitting streak he was batting .425. Too bad it ended tonight.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 10:45 AM) Since the All-Star break, Geo Soto's numbers are: 5-12 (.417 AVG) 3 HR 5 RBI 1.896 OPS I said in the game thread after the 2 hits that his OPS had to be over 1.500 post AS game

Amazing he's still in there after 4 hits well now 5. straight. About time.

Im sorry Panda looks hurt but that was funny especially after I hear a fan yeeling at the ump "how can he be out "?

The 1st inning train keeps on a rollin' !

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:39 AM) Who is being vague? The people who make the decisions are the people who put together the White Sox roster, pay the players, and determine who plays. I like Geo Soto, but he's one bad week away from being this must play player to a guy who needs to be DFA'd. It already happened once this year with him. He had some hits, hit a homer, he had to play. He did play, struck out a few times, threw one or 2 into CF, and it was OMG he is so terrible. There is a reason with catching so scarce, Geo Soto was available for a minor league contract. Show me one article that quote Rick Hahn as saying pitch framing is/was instrumental in Flowers getting so much playing time.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) I was trying to look at it from both sides and make it fair. Really tried to be unbiased. Try harder. Dodgers have NO interest in losing Urias or Seager .None whatsoever.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:26 AM) He exclusively catches Samardzija, so Flowers misses some of that, and they get the same relievers. Extra strikes lead to extra outs. Dimiss it all you want, but apparently the people who make the decisions believe in it. What people who make the decisions. The Pirates ? There you go being vague again just throwing s*** at the wall like a caged monkey.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:00 AM) If it is so dependent on pitchers, how come, catching many of the same pitchers, Soto ranks 38th? I do think if they had lasers determining balls and strikes and made pitch framing moot, Flowers probably wouldn't be around. OOOh our backup catcher is ranked 38th while hardly playing. I guess I'll just jump on the pitch framing bandwagon now. Welcome all to Small Sample Size Theater. And what does being ranked 38th in pitch framing even mean ? Does it mean he gets an average of .5 strikes called per game while the top 5 get 3 or 4 ? Does Soto ever catch Sale or Quintana ? Need a lot more facts if you're going to throw an arbitrary number like 38th in pitch framing out there.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) I f***ing hate Carlos Gomez. But I've still got a pipe dream where we send Avisail Garcia as a significant part of the package to get him. Crack ,opium or marijuana PIPE dream ?

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) The thing is he was hitting in the high .300's in AAA. He can succeed with his approach against lesser talent, so sending him down doesn't help. When a 24 year old can't catch up to a 94 mph fastball and swings at pitches that far out of the zone I worry. Sending him down could help IF he got implicit instructions to try a different batting stance or move away from the plate or lower his hands or try a leg kick . He's not only swinging at bad pitches outside but inside too.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) Crazy to think that the Jays are only 1/2 game in front of the Sox right now, and they just emptied their system for Tulo and Price. Albeit, Tulo will be there beyond 2015, but still pretty wild, and quite a gamble considering they likely won't catch the Yanks either way and will be relying on a 1 game playoff, at best. Now if the Sox get a bat it definitely cannot be a rental. Just no sense in trading our prospects for anything but a good 2 way player.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) I'm with you on pitch framing it's so hard to parse out exactly who is getting the benefit of the doubt (the catcher or the pitcher) and I get that Flowers grades out 5th this year but he's never been higher than top 1/3 in previous years and FFS how many extra strikes to you have to pull to make up for a wRC+ of 56 and awful throwing? Flowers is literally the definition of replacement level. If he wasn't friends with Sale and an ORG favorite (grindy white catcher) he'd probably already be gone. Yep . When Greg Maddux was pitching and umps would call strike after strike because he was always around the plate how many times do you think his catcher was credited was being able to handle those near miss pitches and turn them into strikes. If I wanted to spend the time I'd look at the teams with the most walks and see how many of their catchers have a good pitch framing rating and do the same with the teams with the least walks just to prove my point. But I will let those who keep using it as a viable tool do that to try and disprove me.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) He's one of the best pitch framers in the game, I assume that's why he starts so often. Pitch framing wasn't even a thing until a few years ago. It means almost nothing. It's all about who is pitching to you and the pitchers rep with umps for throwing strikes. When pitchers reps and the inconsistency of umps calling balls and strikes is taken into consideration pitch framing just doesn't stack up as viable. Just because its a sabr-stat doesn't mean it should automatically be trusted as a "thing". Flowers is huge for a catcher and I hardly ever see him handle a ball in the dirt flawlessly. He can block some but is high on the list of passed balls allowed which to me is more reliable than pitch framing.