CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:39 AM) Who is being vague? The people who make the decisions are the people who put together the White Sox roster, pay the players, and determine who plays. I like Geo Soto, but he's one bad week away from being this must play player to a guy who needs to be DFA'd. It already happened once this year with him. He had some hits, hit a homer, he had to play. He did play, struck out a few times, threw one or 2 into CF, and it was OMG he is so terrible. There is a reason with catching so scarce, Geo Soto was available for a minor league contract. Show me one article that quote Rick Hahn as saying pitch framing is/was instrumental in Flowers getting so much playing time.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) I was trying to look at it from both sides and make it fair. Really tried to be unbiased. Try harder. Dodgers have NO interest in losing Urias or Seager .None whatsoever.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:26 AM) He exclusively catches Samardzija, so Flowers misses some of that, and they get the same relievers. Extra strikes lead to extra outs. Dimiss it all you want, but apparently the people who make the decisions believe in it. What people who make the decisions. The Pirates ? There you go being vague again just throwing s*** at the wall like a caged monkey.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 11:00 AM) If it is so dependent on pitchers, how come, catching many of the same pitchers, Soto ranks 38th? I do think if they had lasers determining balls and strikes and made pitch framing moot, Flowers probably wouldn't be around. OOOh our backup catcher is ranked 38th while hardly playing. I guess I'll just jump on the pitch framing bandwagon now. Welcome all to Small Sample Size Theater. And what does being ranked 38th in pitch framing even mean ? Does it mean he gets an average of .5 strikes called per game while the top 5 get 3 or 4 ? Does Soto ever catch Sale or Quintana ? Need a lot more facts if you're going to throw an arbitrary number like 38th in pitch framing out there.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) I f***ing hate Carlos Gomez. But I've still got a pipe dream where we send Avisail Garcia as a significant part of the package to get him. Crack ,opium or marijuana PIPE dream ?

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) The thing is he was hitting in the high .300's in AAA. He can succeed with his approach against lesser talent, so sending him down doesn't help. When a 24 year old can't catch up to a 94 mph fastball and swings at pitches that far out of the zone I worry. Sending him down could help IF he got implicit instructions to try a different batting stance or move away from the plate or lower his hands or try a leg kick . He's not only swinging at bad pitches outside but inside too.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) Crazy to think that the Jays are only 1/2 game in front of the Sox right now, and they just emptied their system for Tulo and Price. Albeit, Tulo will be there beyond 2015, but still pretty wild, and quite a gamble considering they likely won't catch the Yanks either way and will be relying on a 1 game playoff, at best. Now if the Sox get a bat it definitely cannot be a rental. Just no sense in trading our prospects for anything but a good 2 way player.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) I'm with you on pitch framing it's so hard to parse out exactly who is getting the benefit of the doubt (the catcher or the pitcher) and I get that Flowers grades out 5th this year but he's never been higher than top 1/3 in previous years and FFS how many extra strikes to you have to pull to make up for a wRC+ of 56 and awful throwing? Flowers is literally the definition of replacement level. If he wasn't friends with Sale and an ORG favorite (grindy white catcher) he'd probably already be gone. Yep . When Greg Maddux was pitching and umps would call strike after strike because he was always around the plate how many times do you think his catcher was credited was being able to handle those near miss pitches and turn them into strikes. If I wanted to spend the time I'd look at the teams with the most walks and see how many of their catchers have a good pitch framing rating and do the same with the teams with the least walks just to prove my point. But I will let those who keep using it as a viable tool do that to try and disprove me.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) He's one of the best pitch framers in the game, I assume that's why he starts so often. Pitch framing wasn't even a thing until a few years ago. It means almost nothing. It's all about who is pitching to you and the pitchers rep with umps for throwing strikes. When pitchers reps and the inconsistency of umps calling balls and strikes is taken into consideration pitch framing just doesn't stack up as viable. Just because its a sabr-stat doesn't mean it should automatically be trusted as a "thing". Flowers is huge for a catcher and I hardly ever see him handle a ball in the dirt flawlessly. He can block some but is high on the list of passed balls allowed which to me is more reliable than pitch framing.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) Zero moves. But if any good player is traded it will be Micah Johnson. I've made a lot of suggestions on who comes and goes but I honestly have no idea what the Sox will do. Must be a lot of infighting between opposing possible directions the team will take in the front office. The only thing we can be REASONABLY assure of is that the Sox keep LaRoche because of his salary and continue to try and get their money's worth from him unfortunately . A bat would be nice but who the Sox give up for it and the amount of said bats salary has to be the bone of contention among the brass. I'll just say stand pat with an eye on the upcoming home stand and if fruitful some waiver wire transaction in August.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) I'm not clueless I'm biased Very commendable that you take harsh and insulting disagreements with such good grace . The prospects lovers don't like Gomez or Gonzalez so we all have our opinions . But the turnaround really started when the defense got better way before the offense so I'd like to continue that trend.

Let Us Rock !

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 08:13 AM) People arguing Gomez over CarGo are nuts lol. When healthy CarGo is a superstar. Gomez is not. Carlos Gomez 2013 All star and 9th in MVP voting Carlos Gomez 2014 All star and 16th in MVP voting Carlos Gonzalez 2o13 All star Last 2 years history shows Carlos Gomez is closer to a superstar than Carlos Gonzalez

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 07:37 AM) Puig is a young impact bat. Carlos is 30 and not putting up great numbers. Ok again he is 29 not 30 until he is 30 which is December . His offense plus his defense is a huge upgrade and since we would have him next year too (when he actually is 30)he could return to his mid .800 OPS days of 2013 and 2014.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 07:00 AM) No thanks to Gomez. That was insightful.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 06:09 AM) What about Avi, Montas and M. Johnson for Gomez? I would do that It is time the Sox started thinking more about defense and less about the future of Avi's hitting abilities. Giving up 2 defensive liabilities and a current fireballing starter but projected reliever isn't bad at all . I'd only offer Montas and Micah first. Or Avi and Montas depending on who the Brewerrs like more. I have stuck up for Avi as much as anyone here but a talent like Gomez is hard to pass up at his salary and for next year too. Avi is a hole right now no matter how good you think his future could be.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 06:36 AM) i know of wheeler, but tor this discussion, lets assume we are talking about my org post. i was talking about Gomez and only gomez. if there is some concerns about his hips, i am in the thinking, ok, but the sox don't really need longer than season 2016. let him walk after that yr. this person can add the little spark to help the sox continue in their unbelievable streak. just to give the team more momentum for the last months of the season and playoff. So tell me why again the Sox don't need a very good player for 2016 at $7M a year when he's likely to get at least double that in the open market ? There has never been anything wrong with his hip. Hamstring soreness yes, hip no . Edit: I will say that when I said there has never been anything wrong with his hip that means currently . He had problem earlier with it but not now.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 06:29 AM) Read a tweet that Mets axed it because of Gomez hip. Scares me away. If you read the threads more you'd also see there was a tweet (Nightengale) about the Brewers nixing it because of Wheeler. I mean whats more likely the Mets stopping it because of a guy who is playing or the Brewers stopping it because a guy had TJ surgery and just started throwing and won't play til June 2016 ?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 05:39 AM) Gomez is 30 with an OPS .751. What exactly is that worth? Top prospect? Not in my opinion. Avi is 24 and I don't get the zeal to dump him. Gomez is worth Avi but certainly not Avi and the top prospect like Adams or Montas. Maybe you throw in a 10 to 15 rated prospect. Or better yet use a 15 to 20 rid of prospect get a situational hitter like the angels got. 29 again !

QUOTE (BigFinn @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:17 PM) Mea culpa. I obviously know absolutely nothing about baseball. After losing 3 out of 4 to the Royals, I thought the Sox should be sellers. I wanted to wave the white flag from the highest yardarm. They were a listless team that couldn't play offense and couldn't play defense. I thought, I, I, . . . well what do I know. OK. I'll bite. Go Sox. Go, go Sox. Let's Go Sox. I am now officially emotionally invested. Dadgummit. Now I have to sit down, strap it on, and hunker down. This team is better than the roller coasters at Great America. Problem is you still might be right. It's great the Sox got everyone all excited again by winning on the road against bad teams. The law of averages or the ultra popular "regressing to the mean" is playing out right now. For most of the season the Sox sucked at getting XBH . Now it seems like every other hit is of the XB variety. Sucks to be the guys to make decisions now because a hot 1 1/2 weeks is supposed to determine the whole season ? August schedule is tough starting with the Yankees at US Cellular. Yankees could still make a huge move so they might be even better. Then TB Rays, one of our competitors for the WC. Then 3 on the road against the Royals with Cueto and Zobrist. Back home for 6 against the Angels and Cubs at the Cell. Cubs still may make a major trade . Edit: I have a hard time with the term "regressing to the mean" when things are moving in a positive direction. Regressing is such a downer word I think reversion to the mean would be more accurate.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) Are you being serious or sarcastic? I mentioned that earlier but people shot that down quick Wouldn't be too farfetched actually. He could split catcher duties with Soto and Flowers . Allows Soto to be the RH'ed guy at DH to split time with LaRoche. That would be a more productive bench than always having a guy or 2 we don't play like Beckham , Bonifacio and Leury. Downside is, of course , it's AJ . But Rock is kidding. His source dried up.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 28, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) Danish is 20. Give him time. Also this. GreenSox is so big on prospects that he never lets the facts get in the way when he posts.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Josh Reddick. I wanted Reddick 2 years ago in a thread called something like Projected 2014 lineup . But Carlos Gomez who's also not on the proposed list would be great too. So I didn't vote for any of the options.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 04:00 AM) i can agree with the idea of the cost of prospect being too much, however the sox don't need him for any longer amount of time. the sox need him to add a continuous spark to this hot hitting team to help carry the team into the playoff. Do you realize that Zack Wheeler had Tommy John surgery and just started throwing again and won't even be available til June/July of 2016 ? Yes he is young (25) and talented but will he be as talented when he recovers ? I'd say its much more likely the Brewers stopped the trade because of Wheelers health rather than the Mets nixing it because of Gomez.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 09:15 PM) Mets backed out of the trade because of concerns with Gomez's hip. Per Rosenthal And there is this so 2 reliable writers hearing things opposite. @BNightengale: The #Brewers rejected the #Mets trade because of concerns over Wheeler"s physical and still plan to trade Gomez by Friday.