CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 06:50 PM) Even that guy had him negative in everything but pitch framing. He had him as the worst throwing catcher. I don't think his arm is that bad, but he has a big issue with accuracy, and it could be mental. That was earlier in the season. I saw something for around June or July that had him throwing out 38% which isn't too bad. Finished at 24% Phegley and Flowerrs both did pretty good in that respect also. But I did not see any great receiving skills from them . Both seemed to have a lot of passed balls. Haven't checked all that yet. The more I look the harder it is to figure out how good a catcher really is defensively.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 06:17 PM) Conger might be the right piece to get back alongside Bourjos. He wouldn't raise the price too much but could offer a good deal of value to us, as he will be a huge marginal gain whether he pans out or not http://www.detroittigertales.com/2013/10/t...n-baseball.html This guy tries to rate catchers on runs saved and has Conger 10th among all catchers and that's with only 92 games played. Catcher's are probably the hardest player defensively to quantify.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 05:56 PM) He is weak defensively. He is an offensive prospect but hasn't lived up to his earlier promise. Don't really know why he would be considered a huge upgrade over Flowers or Phegley but fans generally like players on other teams who suck as much as the players on the team they follow a lot more. Where do you get that from ? In only 92 games with the Angels he had a 2.3 defensive WAR and Steamer predicts with 97 games he'd have an 8.5 defensive WAR. He turns 26 in January and is a switch hitter. So yes I'm saying he is OK defensively . If you have something else to support your weak defensive label I'd like to see it. Catcher has to be our weakest position as of now and I'd like another LH bat who also can hit a little bit and is young. Conger fits all of those . Feel free to do some research and submit other names if Conger doesn't do it for you. Flowers wasa -0.1 and Phegley was a -0.5 WAR . Conger was a 1.0 WAR so no ,he does not suck nearly as much as the players we have.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) I'm thinking Bourjos + Kendrick. My feeling is Q or Santiago is too much for just Bourjos. Not enough for Bourjos and just about anyone else. I think we need Conger more than those 2 but I'd like all 3.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) How does it make sense for a young/rebuilding team (assuming we did put Bourjos in CF) to keep DeAza and get rid of Viciedo? For 2014 or 2017, it just doesn't compute. They definitely do need a veteran catching option, though, whether it's Buck or Conger or whoever, Hahn can't be dumb enough to go into spring training without an improvement at that position. One has to look no further than Molina and Salty/Ross to see how important the catching position is...and compare that to what we got out of that position in 2013. To get something you have to give up something and those were players on a bad team, , without positions, bad fielders and bad runners. The question is really why keep them when they aren't good ? Maybe keep Viciedo or DeAza whoever you think has the best chance to pan out . Viciedo for future DH or DeAza for LF. Don't have to keep every young guy just because he is young. Conger and Bourjos are young enough and Kendrick is currently 29 and a free agent after 2015 so you get 1 1/2 years and if neither of the years the Sox are competing then he can be traded at the deadline of the 2nd year. Then we have: Hendrick 2B RH Abreu 1B RH A. Garcia RF RH Conger C S A. Ramirez SS RH Semien 3B RH Bourjos CF RH Dunn DH LH ?? LF Sign Ellsbury (LH) and we're back in business with a pretty good defensive team and a decent hitting team to SUPPORT our PITCHERS . I also like the idea of Parra, too .More good D another LH and about as old of Bourjos but would come come at a higher price.

QUOTE (bruni @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 08:32 AM) Here we go White Sox fans: As of this morning, the Angles have speed/defence whiz Peter Bourjos and slugger Trumbo on the block for pitching. Let's let Santiago loose for a combo platter of Bourjos, catcher Ianetta or Conger and have the Angels throw in prospect or two. Bourjos is under team control for 3 more years, about to enter his peak (age 27) and has had his value suppressed by 2 separate DH stints due to HBP. He is only slated to cost 1.1 million in 2014. Trumbo at the cell would be fun, but we do not need another thumper with no position to play. Send De Aza on his way and solidify the OF and lead off spot plus the Catcher position with Bourjos and Ianetta. Sounds like what I've been trumpeting in the Quintana trade value thread. Only I'm thinking Bourjos would be buy low and I also included Hendrick and Conger who would be a huge get. 1 pitcher ,whoever that might be, and any position players among Viciedo, DeAza, Beckham, Kepppinger, Leury Garcia, Jordan Danks , and maybe Gillaspie if we are all comfortable with Semien at 3rd. No Trumbo but Hendrick, Conger and Boujos. Edit: Forgot Phegley and Flowers in my list of players available to Angels since we'd get back Conger would probably have to give up a catcher.

Minoso's # 9

QUOTE (scs787 @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 08:15 PM) Man that 05 team was garbage right? Only going into the season with AJ and Pods as the only LH starters, for shame. I don't have their record that year at hand but I bet they didn't contend!! Reality is the Sox need the best hitter they can get regardless of what side of the plate he hits from. I understand the whole "The AL Central is filled with RHP so we need more LH hitters to combat that" but good RH bats hit RHP too. A guy like Brett Lawrie, who has been discussed here, is a RH bat but last year, and in his rookie year(what you hope he turns back to) he actually hit RHP better than he did LHP. The only thing the Sox don't want is a right handed platoon player, one that can only hit LHP What you hope he returns to is an understatement considering last year in which he hit righties better than lefties was nothing to write home about because of injuries and general ineffectiveness . You can't find him in the top 20 3rd basemen in any statistical category against righties. At least Gillaspie is usually in the top 10-15 in some of those stats.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 07:23 PM) I'm sorry "Jordan", I just can't help myself. Apparently, a good left handed hitter seems to be the most rare and elusive commodity around here. Everyone on this board just keeps clamoring for this guy, or that guy, and they are almost always right handed. Geez!!! It's just frustrating. Garcia, Abreu, Viciedo, Thompson, Hawkins, and they'll probably draft Gatewood (I hope so) If they trade Quintana, it better be for a good left handed bat. Ok. Now I'll "stop already". Brett Gardner, Ellsbury,Choo, Hank Conger, Gerardo Parra. There are names that pop up every now and then . Trouble is some the best LH batters are either 1st basemen or terrible fielders. So maybe Hahn will make a strong play for Ellsbury or Choo if they don't accept qualifying offers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 06:38 PM) White sox prospect rules. A good conversion for our ranked guys is probably to subtract 75 from the spot they're put at. Our system gets no respect but keeps churning out big leaguers. Not even from our own fans but Kiley McDaniel did put EJ at 37 in his late August listing. http://sbb.scout.com/2/1319654.html

I just want to throw it out there that Mike Rosenbaum had a year end top 100 prospect ranking and had Aaron Johnson 44 and Marcus Stroman another BJ pitcher (AA) at 46. Rosenbaum is admittedly a White Sox fan but didn't have Erik Johnson in the top 100 but said he'd be in the top 110. I don't see how a guy who put up a low 2's ERA in AA a mid 1's ERA in AAA came to the ML's and pitched decently isn't listed higher than those 2 Blue Jays. Anyone want to take a stab at explaining that to me ? He qualified for the list since he didn't pitch more than 50 innings at the ML level. I know rankings are subjective but omitting Johnson seems ridiculous.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) If that's the barometer, Q's strikeout rate dropped drastically from Rookie ball to A ball. He went from fanning 11 or 12 per 9, to less than 8. The more I read about Sanchez, the more it occurs the Sox would have to come up with a lot more than Q to get him and Lawrie. Q never was reported to have a 97 mph heater and nasty secondary stuff. If he did the Yankees never would've let him get away.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 12:34 PM) It is false. The Sox can't talk to him until 5 days after the WS. Yea I understand I'm just saying the whole thing from the very beginning in the Suntimes and everything about it is garbage. If Granderson signs with anyone before New Years I'd be surprised.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) I'd give him 3:1 odds and I'd even give him +/- one year on the length of contract and +/- $3M on the money per year. The whole Granderson to the Sox thing has to be garbage . Hahn keeps talkig about acquiring players who fit long term and Grandy ain't that. Not even close and at those prices I'd lose all faith in Hahn.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 10:43 AM) Aaron Sanchez is damn near untouchable. They moved top guys like Syndergaard and Nicolino and DeSclafani last offseason to get a Cy Young winner. Sanchez isn't going anywhere unless the Jays are getting a Felix Hernandez type. His fastball sits at about 97 and is rated among the best in all of MiLB and he's got nasty secondary stuff too. I've read it's in the 94-96 range and as I mentioned earlier his K rate dropped to under 1 per inning when he made the jump from A to A+ . I think a guy with a 97 heater and nasty secondary stuff could K at least 1 an inning in A+.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) First off, not to be a dick, but it's Kendrick, no 's'. Second, why would you want him to be a big piece back for Quintana? He's already 30 years old, is only under contract for two more years at fairly large rates, and most importantly plays an easy position to fill and one where we actually have a decent amount of depth in the organization. He's a good player no doubt and the age doesn't really bother me as much as it would others, but I don't how he makes any sense as a long-term fit, especially at the expense of one of our best assets. I never said Kendrick would be a long term fit. Not all acquisitions have to fit in that category. He'd be easy to move at the trade deadline and provide value while he's with us. If we get Kendrick I'd want Conger or Bourjos or both who do fit long term. I want ML pieces and to trade our ML pieces. Throw out names to the Angels like Flowers, Phegley, Beckham, Viciedo, Santiago, Johnson, Rienzo, DeAza, Keppinger, Gillaspie. I'd give them any of those but only one pitcher in a 5 or 4 for 3 trade and we end up with 3 offensively and defensively better players than we had last year. Then the lineup is looking pretty decent without taking on that much more salary. Sign Ellsbury and maybe'were still around $100M payroll with anoher 4 position upgrades and more talent . I havent done the math so I'm guessing. Something could be worked out if the Angels didnt want to give up all 3 .

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 10:05 AM) Quintana has really put together two nice years. Still, I have to keep that 'sell high' mindset with him if the offer is right........a mindset i actually dont have for Hector. Comes down to talent perhaps blinding me, but as they're both guys I just categorize as 'solid'......that's where i stand. At least when looking at it separate from contract details. I think the Sox can afford to wait another year before they trade any of their pitchers. Johnson and Rienzo could break out but we can't afford to deal Q if they don't. Also need 2014 to see if Danks comes back. If we trade Q it has to be a clear win. Otherwise see what teams like the Angels want because they have pieces that are available for pitching. Kendricks ,Conger and Bourjos can all help us.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 06:36 PM) What would be interesting to see is if they do acquire Lawrie could they possible move him to 2B, leaving the left handed Gillaspie in the lineup? I'm reading multiple reports saying Toronto might have plans to move him there so it's a possibility. Toronto has some of the same needs we do at C and 2nd base. That's why I want to pursue Kendricks,Conger, Bourjos from the Angels before Toronto does.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) I think some people are undervaluing Lawrie here. Yes, he wasn't great last year, but he only turns 24 in January and has incredible tools. And even in 2012, which was a failure compared to his initial call-up, he was still able to put up a 2.5 WAR. I'm not saying you move Quintana for him straight-up, but if you can get a starting pitching prospect like Sanchez as well then you have to strongly consider the deal. Young 3B with elite potential are not easy to come by and this may be the type of gamble we need to take to fix this offense. I think some people are undervaluing our #2 starter. Q got even better his his 2nd full year when everyone didn't think he could repeat his 1st year. Lawrie hasnt done much for 2 years and when baseball has cracked down on PED's you have to look at any reduced production with a very discerning eye. Sure it could've been injuries or him not adjusting to pitchers adjustments to him but still his production is concerning.

Kozma drops a grounder in the hole. Thats 2 screw ups by him in less than 2 innings. Hope Cards lose the Series they might want to get Alexei

Cards looking like the White Sox . Dropped throw to 2nd base on potential DP grounder. A missed pick up of a double which led to Ortiz scoring from 1st. Wainright lets a popup drop right in front of him in the 2nd inning.

1st inning game 1. After umps corrected blown call, Napoli was up with bases loaded against Wainwright. In that situation. Wainright is looking for a DP grounder. What are the 2 way to get a hitter to hit a GB ? Jam him or low . Napoli takes the 1st 2 pitches which are inside and low. Wainright now has to come in with a strike. Napoli hammers a fastball to the gap to clear the bases. This should be used by the Sox as the way to approach that situation on every level and with the parent club. Be smart be patient. Think of the situation you're in before you even get to the plate and step out if necessary to readjust.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 04:38 PM) Some rumors are advantageous for one team in the slightest, some rumors are advantageous for one team completely. I don't understand your point, "you can say the same thing about any rumored deal" no s***? Does that need to be said? I am simply saying we would be fleecing Toronto in Quintana for Lawrie and Sanchez. I don't think it would be a fleecing at all. Lawrie hasn't done much in the 2 years since his big impact rookie season. He does have youth on his side and Sanchez though highly rated may end up being nothing. He's only played as high as A+ and his K rate dropped below one an inning from A to A+. Your #2 pitcher for a Beckham like 3rd baseman and a pitching prospect in A ball ,even a good one ,isn't a fleecing.

Gillaspie and Lawrie were pretty much the same last year. Conor is 2.5 years older and a LH ,which we need, and is one of the few Sox who works the count well. http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/sanc...-arizona-video/ Sanchez AFL video ,Jays #3 prospect according to BB America. If we're going to trade Q how about Kendrick and the switch hitting catcher Conger from the Angels for Q and Beckham ? We upgrade 2 positions that way. Hell make it a blockbuster with the Angels give them a choice of Phegley or Flowers and get Bourjos too .

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 22, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) I disagree here. Garcia is a lock for one OF spot and I'm not sure why we wouldn't give Viciedo another opportunity out there given the lack of young talent we currently have in our organization. That leaves De Aza, and while I think Hahn may try to move him if he can get a strong return, he's definitely not just going to give him away. So IMO, they may look for an upgrade in CF but it will all depend on the market for De Aza. With the acquisition of Abreu and barring a total flop Viciedo is a DH in waiting . There's just no getting around that. He either starts hitting and soon or he's gone. Nothing is worse for a good pitching staff than bad defense and our's in the OF is atrocious. Your asset is your pitching . I think a quicker than expected turnaround is capabale with a few extra players who can hit and field their positions well. Pouring over stats has shown me just how rare it is to get positive value for both. We're better off getting great fielders and hoping they develop as hitters at this point with all the 1 run and extra inning loses we had . Better defense and Abreu working out plus another bat like Ellsbury who is also a good fielder will be worth more wins then one might think considering all the close games we lost. My motto going forward is SUPORT OUR PITCHERS . Arguing for guys who didnt hit or field or run particularly well is not something I'd do.