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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 03:00 AM) Where is the idea of James Loney being a good firstbasemen coming from? He has been a negative value defender his whole career. If I'm signing a first basemen thats going to have a .750 OPS and hit MAYBE 15 homers, he better be gold glove caliber. While I don't think Hart is the piece that is going to put us over the top, give me him anyday of the week over Loney if we miss out on Abreu. He'll probably come much cheaper and if healthy should outproduce Loney. His ex manager Joe Torre said he was a plus defensively. Here's another article about potential bargain free agents who do well defensively when runs scored are way down in baseball. http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/...free-agents-mlb You know defensive metrics don't give 1st basemen much leeway or praise like they do other positions. Defensive metrics are still a work in progress so read the article. It's ESPN insider but you can still see the 1st 2 paragraphs about Loney's defense. If your going to trust defensive metrics then you need to see DRS and if you don't know what that is then don't disparage his defense without more knowledge.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 10:53 PM) Loney is solid defensively but is not fast by any stretch. Hart is 31 and 1 year removed from a season where his OPS was .841. That would be good for 1Bman 9th in baseball last year. Plus, that .841 was the lowest OPS he posted in his last seasons and he'd be moving to our ballpark. Hart has upside. If Hart went 30/90 with a .275/.340/.515 slash nobody would be surprised. Loney's career best at each of those statistics: 15/90 .299/.348/.434 Hart probably signs something like 1 yr 5 mil with incentives or 2 yr 8 mil. Loney probably signs for much more than that. Hart will be 32 when the 2014 season starts and I would be surprised if he goes 30/90 with that slash line coming off 2 knee surgeries and missing a whole year+ counting the off season. You bolded "over the hill" but you can see that was my mini-rant about 1st base in general . The Texeira , Ryan Howard, Justin Moreau types while you should have bolded the injury part of the rant that applies to Hart. You're all acting like these things are no big deal. He injured one knee then while rehabbing , screwed the other one up . Taking his stats from 2012 and saying they'd be 9th in baseball in 2013 means nothing because he was injured for 2013 , the whole season. He will never be what he was physically before the injuries .The dude wants to be in Milwaukee if the Brewers say no that should tell you something. He's practically throwing himself at them ,begging them to take him back. I don't understand why we all want Abreu , then if we don't get him for that high dollar amount then all of a sudden we go cheap at 1st base. Loney won't even end up getting half of what Abreu probably ends up with, maybe even 1/3 but I'll guess between 1/2 and 1/3. I wouldn't be unhappy getting Hart . I just think it's more likely for Loney to have a better season and he's more obtainable and he's lefthanded. It would be nice to have a few .290+ batting averages in the lineup to sustain rallies for once and not dread the lefty on lefty matchup instead of a bunch of .250 hitters like we had last year.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 03:50 PM) I don't want a fast, defensive 1B when I play at the Cell. I want a guy that's going to hit a ton of HRs, especially given the lack of power with the rest of our infield. And if we can't acquire a better 1B than Loney this offseason, then we're better off accepting 2014 is a lost cause, because we aren't going to improve enough with him at a critical offensive position. And what works for the Rays isn't automatically going to work for us. See Jeff Keppinger's numbers in 2012 and then take a look at Loney's this year. Both are clear outliers and I don't want get stuck with another mediocre player signed to a multi-year deal coming off a fluke year. Outlier? He had 1 bad year in 2012. The rest fof his career he's been rock steady. Who cares about lack of power from the rest of the infield . I'm looking to upgrade those too . One move for more power doesnt improve anything. All areas need improvement not just power. Ive' put myself out there with a plan to improve all facets of the Sox . What's your plan . Easy to snipe about one position . I want the pitchers happy . They are our bread and butter . Baseballs moving away from lumbering power inflated numbers. I'll take marked improvement in all areas of the game at multiple positions instead of some over the hill coming off injury HR quest that is the 1st base position in baseball now.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) Signing Loney to a 3 year deal would be a horrible move. When you have arguably the worst offense in baseball, you don't sign a below-average offensive player to a multi-year deal to fill a position that is naturally offense-oriented. If you miss out on Abreu, Morales, and Hart then you might as well check the non-tender list or try to acquire a minor league that's blocked. I don't see any reason to go with James Loney unless it's a cheap, one year deal and even then I'd explore other options first. I guess I could do this all day. When you have the worst offense in baseball and the worst defense and slow footed creatures all over the bases you don't look to hit HR's with your moves. You look to improve in all areas with every player you acquire. As usual all I keep hearing about is offense. Did Konerko hit .299. Did Konerko have the range of Loney ? Did Konerko run the bases with any speed ? Yes I want Abreu but failing that I want a better team in more areas than offense. I want improvement at positions , multiple positions. Don't like 3 years ? Have you looked at the dearth of quality 1st basemen around baseball lately ? You could do a lot worse than Loney by far. Don't act like you can get his kind of production out of just anyone. You don't pick guys up off the scrapheap who can hit field and run the bases at 1st the way he can. If he was good enough for TB in the playoffs he's good enough for the Sox .

I want Garcia in RF no if ands or buts. Stick him there for the next 5 years and forget about him. Its the 1 position on the team that doesn't need to be dealt with. Do whatever you have to do to get a true CF'er, and not some BODY like Granderson. We have the payroll flexibilty to wheel and deal. Ideally starters should stick to one position. Your bench is for flexilbity. You can surely wait on Granderson, and if he signs early with someone for big bucks then you haven't lost much anyway. He's not a true CF'er, he's coming off injuries that sap power . Wait and if you can't get what you should be looking for , take a chance on him for diminished deniro .

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) While I'd love to keep going haha, my views on Loney are very similar to Balta's displayed in his last post. Obviously 1B is not QB in the NFL but Loney is like a David Garrard or Josh Freeman or Kerry Collins. He's serviceable and a top 20 1B and even a top 15 in a good year, but he's not what we need. Looking at what we have at 2B-SS-3B, I'd be happy to get 30 homers out of those three positions. Loney brings a 15 HR career high. Hart, coming off his surgeries, was very consistent and powerful in his four seasons prior. He would come at a discounted rate and before his surgeries he wasn't a clogger like PK or Morales. Obviously it's not a given he returns to form, but if he's 80% of what he used to be he's better than Loney for our team. Tieing that with the two contracts I like Hart way more. My original plan was to upgrade the HR's at 2nd (also the fielding) by trading for Howie Kendrick .Now you've got 2 guy's who can hit 15 HR's apiece at 1st and 2nd, 2 good hitters, two good runners and 2 good fielders, improving productivity at 2 positions of need . They both hit near .300 so even though neither walks a lot still upgrades OBP too. They both seem like professional hitters , consistent without being extraordinary while still young enough and inexpensive enough to provide 2-3 years worth of quality service time and still money to spend. I'm just not looking for huge bats but better bats, gloves, amd speed then we have right now . Get on move 'em over types. Guys that can go from 1st to 3rd on a base hit. Players that upgrade in 3 areas that need improvements, hitting ,defense and baserunning. They won't ever carry a team on their backs but they add all the little extras that go into winning more games and playing sound baseball. It just reminds me of a few years ago when discussing Derrick Lee vs Adam Laroche . I was in the minority there ( by a lot) wanting LaRoche . I'll take the younger , most recent success guy almost every time when I don't think his salary will be exorbitant at all.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 12:22 PM) Because Loney's salary is going to be based in large part on what he did last year and his performance last year is an anomaly relative to the rest of his career. The rest of his career he's been a guy teams would happily replace if they had a better option. This year he's been a valuable player. If you pay him like a valuable player and next year he goes back to being "guy you'd be very happy to send to the bench for a better hitter", you're stuck with another unmovable contract. I'm just thinking that his contract won't be so high that it'll be unmovable. He's a lifetime .285 hitter and .340 OBP and has been very durable. Sure he's not the hig HR or OPS guy you ideally want at 1st but he's also a better runner and fielder than those types. He had a base salary of $2M with Tampa . He's not high risk nor little reward if you value consistency and a guy you know what to expect from when put in the lineup every day. Plus he's in his prime and probably is capable of hitting 20 HR playing half his games in the Cell though I wouldn't expect it. I think Hart can be described as high risk , high reward but not low risk at all. I think 3 years $20-25M is really ideal for the Sox now with his lefthandedness.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) Who do you think will be demanding a bigger contract Hart or Loney? Why does it matter if Hart is willing to sign Milwaukee at a hometown discount? Sure, the likeliness of him coming to Chicago is less but that doesn't mean Loney's a better fit. Loney is high risk, little reward. Hart is low risk, high reward. As you said though, agree to disagree. I know Loney will get the bigger contract , no doubt at all but why is there concern about paying a guy in his prime coming of a good year when when the Sox have all kinds of room to sign him ? I don't understand why Loney is high risk after hitting as well as he did and Hart is low risk after 2 knee surgeries, 2 yrs older than Loney ,and missed the whole yr. Just because of a lower contract ? I know we could discuss this all day, I'm just trying to understand your point of view better ,but its good baseball discussion. Hart's going to have quite a bit of adjusting to do physically after 2 surgeries and more adjusting after not facing ML pitching for over a year. We need more lefties. Where are the Sox going to get them ? McCann and Granderson ? What's your plan ?

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 05:46 PM) I don't understand why people are so down on Viciedo. He has alot of upside and, to me, is the kind of guy you want. He's young, going into his 3rd year, and looks like a guy who could breakout like Dominic Brown did in Philly. I'd like to add a CF and keep De Aza as the 4th OF. How about a trade for Carlos Gomez? I know that's taking a chance that this past year was a "career" year but it may also be that he is hitting his prime and may be coming into his own. Milwaukee could use some pitching. That's what I've been thinking for a while. I want a true defensive Cf who hits LH . Gomez would be ideal but prying him away from the Brewers would be near impossible but someone like Ben Revere who has no power would fit my bill also.

Rangers 6yrs. $63M

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 7, 2013 -> 08:39 AM) Regardless, Loney should not be the guy we target. No power and we'd be buying high on him. The Dodgers practically gave him away for a reason. We lack power and 1B is a glaring hole, whoever we start at first base next year should have at least 20 HR capability. James Loney's career high in HRs is 15 and he has playedat least 158 games 5 times. Conor Gillaspie's HR/AB rate is far superior than Loney's has EVER been and people around here b**** about his power all the time. Loney fits perfectly for the Rays and I hope he stays away from our Sox. Guess we'll have to disagree. We can't just keep getting RH bats all the time. with so much RH pitching in our division. I really could live with either one. Hart has a lot more power , is a good fiellder , was an outfielder so had good speed . Don't know how he'll be after 1 surgery apiece on each knee . You want the guy coming off 2 knee surgeries, 2 yrs. older and didn't play at all last year and wants to stay with the Brewers bad enough that he said he'd give them a "generous discount." I want the younger Loney who hits LH and hit .299 against both lefties and righties coming off a good year. We both probably prefer Abreu but odds on getting him appear long with the whole blind bid thing. Either ,instead of the high bid on Abreu, would allow the Sox more wiggle room at other positions. If the Sox trade DeAza the LH bat becomes even more important. Side note. Loney 3 for 3 in game 3 against the Red Sox.

Everything I need to know about the "source" is in his thinking that Granderson is a 1st tier free agent " . He's not . I like the idea of getting a CF but it shouldn't be Granderson unless they think they can get him for 2 years max and $8-10M . I doubt he'd settle for that after making $13M a season. He's not going to be the 3.5 WAR player he was. Fan graphs is asking what do you think he is worth amongst fans right now. so that'll be interesting to see. I'd be shocked if most teams don't wait him out till after January so he knows he not in a position to demand a lot.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 07:47 PM) Abreu is obviously the hope but I would definitely buy low on Corey Hart before I buy high on Loney. Hart's already said if the Brewer want him he'd give them a hometown discount with some kind of incentive laden contract. He really wants to stay there and he's another righty. Depends how high Loney get's . Right now thats a mystery . What do think Loney will get? I was hoping 3 years not more than around $15-20M but I have no idea how realistic that is.

I don't think any team should ever rebuild unless the entire roster is talentless. I'm surprised how many people voted for it. I'd venture there are a lot more examples of last to 1st then there are rebuilds that pay off in a short period of time. And sustained sucess is nothing but a mirage. Large payroll teams can do it and those lucky enough to have stumbled across great draft classes and luck with injuries.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) But then Loney's coming off a career revitalizing year, and he's going to get (arguably) at least three years. Not just because of Keppinger and the "Rays Factor", but you have have to be leery about rewarding anyone in that situation, buying high, so to speak. At some point, you have to do your risk assessment and pull the trigger on someone if you ever want to improve...but my belief is we're more likely to use our financial flexibility to take someone coming off a down season or someone who's redundant on another roster (Andre Ethier) in a similar way to Thome with Howard pushing him out of a starting spot. Even buying high on Loney won't be a big deal. He's not a power hitting 1st baseman but is good in other areas. I don't think there will be huge demand for him though the 1st base market is terrible ,so you never know, but he isn't likely to break the bank. With what we got from Konerko this year , Loney is an easy improvement and it's not like we lose the HR's Dunn provided at 1st base because he'll be fulltime DH . At this point I'm not concerned if Dunn hits better at 1st , get that 1 year off the books and move on. When you lose 99 games and have payroll flexibility how Keppinger played for the Rays and us and somehow applying it to Loney isn't a consideration. Everybody comes with baggage and if they don't they cost you extreme dollars and years. My moves should avoid those extremes while adding players in their prime while improving the team in many ways as long as they produce at current levels.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Then the question with any of those guys becomes...do they make the Sox good enough that it's willing to sacrifice a guy who can contribute cheaply in 2015-2017 for a guy who will help them compete this year? If Abreu is as advertised, then I can believe the Sox have a shot next year. If the Sox sign Loney? Much more hesitant on that one. Guess it all depends on what the market is like for Loney. My personal strategy is improve the offense and defense for next year or longer (Kendricks 2 yrs, Loney hopefully not more than 3 )while keeping as much of the starting pitching as possible .So,yes ,I'm looking to compete next year so I'm not worried about how much Beckham/Rienzo contribute to the Angels as long as we get an upgrade at the position with a decent contract. Kendricks , Loney are big upgrades defensively and running the bases and adds a much needed LH bat. To upgrade talent you have to give up something and if thats Beckham and Rienzo futures , so be it. Rienzo may end up a releiver or never make it at all while Beckham has disappointed for 4 years while Kendrick is top ten 2nd baseman in baseball with a very good all-around game. You just take your chances with trading young talent .Now with Loney and Kendricks you're improved in 2 areas without breaking the bank with still plenty of room to do more and kept our top 5 or 6 starters intact. A more rangy infield also improves the starting pitching so those are other reasons for those 2. Kendricks is 30 ,Loney turns 30 in May so both still in late stages of their primes. With all the 1 run games the Sox played this season small incremental improvements in 5 or 6 areas may pay big dividends in the next 2 years if Avisail turns into the real deal. Those 2 moves actually improve you in starting hitting, starting defense, team speed, starting and relief pitching and balances the lineup without adding a pitcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 02:38 PM) The problem with doing damage in trades is...the Sox don't have many trade chips. If San Fran wins Abreu then what do the Sox have worth Brandon Belt? Certianly not Rienzo plus Beckham. That's "Quintana + Semien" or something like that territory. And lots of reports have the Giants wanting to move Belt to a corner OF position to add another bat to their lineup anyway, so they might not be interested in that at all. Then there's always Loney , Morales, Corey Hart , Morneau . Signing a 1st baseman shouldn't be a problem preferably a LH good fielder. (Loney's been my choice for a while)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 6, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) That's an intriguing sort of move, with how Beckham has played it seems like it would be an upgrade, but it's not a move that really "fixes" this team on its own. If the Sox fill their 1b hole and perhaps upgrade the catcher's spot in free agency and are sitting there trying to figure out how to deal with having 6 starters ready for the big leagues on a team they want to compete next year, that could be an "icing on the cake" sort of move. Clears out the extra starter and does come up with an upgrade in exchange for about $6 million additional money. But it's not a move you make on its own - Rienzo + Beckham ought to be more valuable overall during that time period and for the couple years afterwards. You have to do something else to make that make sense. Can only make one move at a time, one improvement at a time. So if SF gets Abreu you immediately go after Brandon Belt. Or maybe we get Abreu.

Kendrick from the Angels is supposedly avaialble again. Haven't researched who they have behind Kendrick but maybe a Beckham/Rienzo combo could get him since he's a free agent after 2015 ends. Kendrick doesnt walk much and is 30 now , but is a hitting, fielding, possibly speed upgrade over Beckham. Angels want pitching. Of course it also makes the Sox older but its only 2 years at $9.5M/yr. Sox could deal him at either deadline in those 2 years if no progress in standing are made. Perfect kind of contract for the Sox needs.

It'll be interesting to see what the winning bid is. Unfortunatly all bids will not be revealed nor will we know if it's only the top money that gets him. Any team seriously interested would offer in the range of 5-8 years and $60-80M.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 07:37 PM) http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/quick-hits-4.html I'd put the Mets and Giants with those 5 to make it 7.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 08:49 PM) Wow. The White Sox pretty much put the Indians in the postseason. That's why I was pretty happy Cleveland lost. They kicked our butt so someone needed to send theirs home . Thank you TB.

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:25 PM) Wasn't able to watch. I appreciate all the in-game updates. Hell of a game.

Huge kill by Hawks . Crawford coming up big.

Hossa given a goal had puck with empty net . Caps player tripped him down. Final 6-4 Hawks !!