CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) Because of the good guesses have been taken..... Brewers 6 years $66M Closest on money but wrong team.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) White Sox, 6 years, $65 million That's pretty good.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 07:37 AM) White Sox, 6/$72. That's close . Still looking.

6 yrs./$68M I sure hope he's real good !

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 17, 2013 -> 07:54 PM) Ken Rosenthal just doubled down on national television and said White Sox got him. I'm convinced. Yep said 6/68 . Who won the Conor picture ? I am stoked !

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) $8m per for a platoon player in a rebuild year? Um, absolutely not. That's max preferrably lower . The original suggestion was 4/36 . Why pick me with the lower amount to say that to ?

3/$24M max. If we're retooling /rebuilding then the kids still have to get a chance. Phegs/ TFlow whoever wins backup position and hope they develop preferrably Phegs.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 10, 2013 -> 07:04 AM) Marcus Semien was hitting the f***ing piss out of the ball in AAA. You're going to tell me they didn't have better options? AA

No walks in 21 innings .

QUOTE (soxfan-kwman @ Oct 11, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) Matt Joyce would be a good 4th outfielder. Also I think Hahn is pretty sharp. In saying that I hope he picks up as many left handed batters as possible. That and more switch hitters. We need guys to get on base, & lefties are a closer to 1b. Sounds simple, but we had 2 lefties all year & one struck out more then he should. Plus the fact that Detroit has all stud RH pitchers, that should be a no brainier. Even if you had 7 LH batters batting .230, should be able to give Detroit some problems. Loading up on Lefties occurred to me while I watched what Oakland did by taking Detroit 5 games, two reasons good pitching & having tons of Lh batters. 7 GUYS batting lefty against Detroit. That being said, moves like picking up a Matt Joyce, a Luke Scott & continuing to load on pitching should be the sox philosophy. That & getting guys to play multiple positions like the Rays do. Long story short Tampa Rays-Oakland A's hybrid. Cleveland has 4 switch hitters and 6 other leftues. I held them up as a model example how to go about retooling and win within the division We do need lefties badly.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 14, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) It just boggles my mind why Konerko gets a free pass. I understand everything he's done for the organization, but it seems as though the organization is considering bringing him back to have a significant role on the team when he was the biggest culprit out of anyone in the organization last year. He was terrible offensively, defensively, and on the base paths, and he single handedly cost the Sox a ton. Say want you want about guys making outs on the base paths being demoralizing, but I think seeing the Captain throw temper tantrums after popping out is just as demoralizing. He doesn't get a free pass from me. His time has past.Hahn needs to have the cojones to say Paulie you mean a lot to this franchise, however we are moving in another direction which doesn't require your services .

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 14, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) Many teams were asking Hahn about him during the deadline this summer... Is it a reach to deal him now? Yes... But if the Red Sox offered up Bogaerts, Bradley, Webster and Owens... You would have to consider it, right? sorry but this team has way too many holes to compete next year... If Hahn wants "sustained" long term success he needs to first address the depth chart in the minors... as of right now, they have crud for position players. Trading Sale will hurt... But the long term benefits to such a deal may be worth it... Of course you are right. There is only so much one player can do. Since rebuild is winning the popular vote rather than retool.what you suggest should get more support. I wouldn't do it because I beleive in retooling ,to use the young starters for competing next year and beyond with a few key bats picked up in the next few years. So either the rebuilders haven't spoken up yet or they really don't want to rebuild without Sale.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) Over Loney's last 3,596 plate appearances, which includes this past season, he's put up splits of .280/.336/.404/.740. Over his last 4 full years in LA - excluding the previous 2 seasons - he's put up splits of .281/.341/.411/.752. There's not a lot that inspires confidence in these numbers whatsoever. Loney is a guy I want the Sox to avoid. Maybe he did figure something out with his swing, but I think the Sox need to let someone else deal with that. He's not going to make much of a difference in the Sox fortunes. Frankly, I'd rather see them let Wilkins start as opposed to bringing in Loney. His numbers aren't spectacular by any means but they are solid. Again from the ESPN insider article. "Many of last offseason's big free-agent hitters, including Josh Hamilton, B.J. Upton and Adam LaRoche, proved to be major disappointments these season. Many of the more defensive-minded signings, however, such as Michael Bourn, Shane Victorino and Russell Martin, played major roles in helping their respective teams to the playoffs. Many here have ached for BJ Upton how wouldv'e that worked out ? Are you expecting Loney to get some massive contract ? You'd really prefer a minor leaguer in the Sox system who the Sox showed no inclination to give any ML time to? I guess we'll see how it all works out . I've already bookmarked this thread for future reference . It's not the only position I want upgraded and I think a more team oriented game with more emphasis on pitching ,defense and stolen bases is the coming era of baseball. I'd like the Sox to be at the forefront. Trust me I love the 3 run HR. It's not that I want a recreation of the Go-Go Sox or don't realize we play in a HR hitters haven. Power bats are hard to find now I just want a reliable hitter with a good glove at as many positions as possible. I want better matchups against the right handed pitching dominace of our Central Division rivals. This s*** of the last year just doesn't fly with me. I wanted Indians to lose that playoff game because they kicked our asses 13 games in a row. I'm pissed I wanna beat the sons of b****es next year real bad. But I respect how they went about the changes. Strength up the middle. Bourne (speed and defense ) , Kipnis, Santana and a lot of lefties. Not greatness anywhere. Kipnis is elite for his position but not a true superstar like from the steroids era but the new style superstar , speed , defense , spray the ball all around the yard. Solid starters and bullpen. Yea I'm holding up Cleveland of all teams as an example of what the coming era is about. If you treat baseball more like the other sports the teams you want to beat are the ones in your own division. If you can beat them , the rest takes care of itself. The quickest way to get compeitive quickly is upgrading the talent level at a lot of positions to beat your division rivals. Also, like other sports , treat baseball as if there's a defensive side to it also. The information age is in its infancy in baseball but its coming. Players on defense will go into shifts for every hitter that comes to the dish. The Pirates defense in particular is getting praised for that now to some extent. Shape your team to beat the Central and the rest pretty much takes care of itself . I hate Cleveland like SS2k hates Detroit just because of what they did to the Sox this year. f*** Cleveland ! and f*** Detroit too. Rant over.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) Wait, I just went to fangraphs and this isn't true. Here's his UZR by year: 3.7 -3.5 -10.3 1.2 -0.2 4.0 7.6 6.1 I'm ashamed someone would get their info wrong trying to make a point . That never happens here

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) He wouldn't be a goat if he did that. The problem is that the odds of him doing that are incredibly small. On top of that, the track record of Rays players leaving the team and underperforming or flat out sucking is extensive. Keppinger, Upton, Kotchman, hell, even Crawford have all been poor after leaving. I'm probably forgetting a few too. I don't know what it is they put in the water, but guys go crazy down there and then bomb elsewhere. That alone is more than reason enough for me to not want any of their fluky, 1 year wonder players. I can't believe such a fine baseball mind as you possess buys into that Rays players flukiness theory. Hey 2014 is an even numbered year for the Sox and recent history suggest those are our lucky years so I'll go with that bit of flukiness over yours.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) Here's one look at it. Almost every relevant stat for players who last into their 30's peaks before 30 and is declining afterwards. Obviously it depends on the player of course, but if we look back at his career at the end, we should have zero surprise if his 29 year old season winds up being his best season. Corey Hart will be 32 starting in March and has had 2 knee surgeries and didnt play at all last year. Kendry Morales put up a similiar season to Loney offensively had 8 more HR's yet his wRC+ is 116 to Loneys 118 , his WAR 1.2 to Loney's 2.7 and turns 31 in June. Really who is out there ?? Yes I want Abreu , yes, I was dyng for the Sox to somehow get Adams from the Cards at the trade deadline. I don't see a better option for a LH bat which we need desperately.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) What exactly about UZR makes it woefully inadequate? Quoting the ESPN insider article I referenced earlier "He's been above average as a first baseman every season of his career according to DRS. Since his first full season in 2008, Loney has recorded more good fielding plays -- as defined by Baseball Info Solutions -- than every other first baseman except Mark Teixeira (400 versus 398). so someones wrong . Guess you can believe what you want and I'll believe Torre and DRS.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) A guy coming off a career-best year and turning 30? yeah, reductions in his performance should be expected. Career best in some areas not others. Since when is 30 old? Up to 32 was always consider prime years even before steroids made primes last longer.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 09:09 AM) James Loney just had his career year at 2.7 WAR, and he's poised to be overpaid. Also, despite his reputation for being a high end defender, he has managed a negative UZR literally every year of his career. Sure, UZR can be wonky from year to year, but six consecutive years of below average numbers paints a pretty compelling picture. At his best, he's a touch above an average player, and he's about to be overpaid to enter his decline years. He's 29 turns 30 around May I think .He won't get a lot of years or dollars since so few ( judging by this board) don't want 1stbasemen who don't hit for (as much as you all want) power. I don't think his UZR paints much of a picture at all. Texeria, generally considered an above avg. 1st baseman is the only guy who saved more runs than Loney since 2008 and only by 2 runs. If his ex manager Joe Torre says he's a good fielder I'll take his word for it rather than the woefully inadeqaute UZR which seems to only reward players at premium positions.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 02:11 PM) In today's hitting environment, I absolutely do. Even if he put up .285/.340/.420, that is still less than what you want from your 1B, especially on a team as devoid of talent as the Sox are offensively. It might be less then you want but offense is down 15% in baseball, since 2006, the main culprits by position are 1st base, 3rd base and SS. Everyone there (1st)is old or injured . Funny how when runs were down and everyone was hitting worse Loney got better.Is the pitching in the Central so much better than the East ? There's a lot of RH pitchers in our divsion and Loney is capabe of being a .300 hitter full time. Yes, we need more bats around him to make him more productive and I'm hoping that happens too. I really can't see him being a goat if he hits near .300 hits 15 HR's and drives in 80 and shows a lot more range in the field than Dunn and Konerko.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 08:39 AM) Loney in 2012 was worse offensively than Konerko in 2013. The team that pays Loney based on 2013, a .778 OPS he hasn't had since 2007, is going to be about as happy about it as Rick Hahn is he signed Keppinger. His one bad year. If you use that as your gauge ,Konerko had a few bad years. Did you think that was likely to happen for the rest of career also.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) Really, if you look at the stats, this isn't true. They put him in LF in 2012 and he was just a small tick below "average" out there. Both UZR and Defensive Runs Saved agree on this, UZR he was at -3 with 0 being average, DRS he was actually above average in 2012. The problem is he was significantly worse in both metrics in 2013. In 2012, he covered enough ground and was reliable enough of a fielder that when you factor in his arm, he was just fine in 2012. The problem is he suffered from the same 2013 disease as the rest of the team and got worse. His arm didn't come into play as much in 2013 because baserunners knew not to run on him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 07:55 AM) I think Loney would be the biggest one by far, and I think most of it would have to do with the inevitable .270/.330/.370 he puts up in his first season with the Sox. You just need more out of a 1B than that. So you expect his avg, obp ,and slg. to drop below his career average in the Cell ? I expect at least a 285.avg 340obp. and .420 slg. if not higher.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 06:12 AM) Because they offer him the most money and the chance to play with fellow Cubans? Do you really think if the Sox offered $50 million and the Rangers offered $20 million he'd say "CHICAGO IS FULL OF BUTT MUNCHERS, TEXAS ALL THE WAY!" or do you think he'd probably sign with the Sox? Consider me strongly opposed to the idea of James Loney. This is a guy that I feel, if the Sox signed him, would become an instant goat. As opposed to the 20 or so goats we already have ??

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 04:30 AM) Ok so lets use DRS. Loney has 21 DRS over the past 3 years (437 games played at 1B). That comes out to be about 1 run saved every 21 games. Is that really enough to overcome his complete lack of power? Especially on our current roster where we will probably only get 30-40 homers total from the rest of our infield? I don't think so. 1B is a offensive position. It's enough to improve the D from 1stB last year and so are all his other htting qualities. You are all hung up on this idea that he doesnt have enough power for the postion when I look at he improves what we had last year. You make imrovements at 5 or 6 positions on offense and defense, you're improving the teams 10- 12 ways better than last year. We played tons of 1 run games. Win more of those close games and you turn around your record with the pitching we already have. Baseball is a team game . It all adds up if your plan is to improve 5-6 positions. Not just the offense, but the defense and baserunning need help too .