babybearhater

I was speaking of his minor league stats in 2002

oooo angry admin, although im not sure what condesending is.(sp?) You can read all of my posts, pretty consistent if you ask me. I never said Olivo was bad, but in three seasons, he doesnt seem to be elite. I could be wrong, as I hope he does become elite considering how much I like him. But when you say elite, I think of Pudge Rodriguez, and his first three years show continuing improvement, while Miguel's seem to be sort of sitting in neutral. This could be due to his change in team, or any other factors. But to me he seems destined to be a good maybe great catcher. But elite, I think the jury is out on that. As far as Grilli, I havent seen enough of him yet. And I dont think he was all that bad in the minors. I believe in his debut year (1998) before any hint of injury, he had an ERA of around 3.8 and a low number of walks I believe. He couldnt have been that bad. In 2002 i think he was around the same level with about a 3.5 and I think he had a winning record 13-11. 71 walks and 160 k's. I may be wrong, but I didnt think that was all that terrible. But I do think that the Marlins got ripped off when they traded Livan and nate bump for him. And dont take it so personal, it was just my opinion.....

Grilli-12 games of major league experience Olivo 212 games of major league experience Never said he wasnt going to be good, just does look like someone who will be elite, especially when one of the knocks on him is how he handles pitchers, which is one of the stats that doesnt show up in offensive categories it was a good try though

Kelly Dransfeldt hands down

s*** I forgot this one, does anyone remember 1999's rotation?? SP James Baldwin 5.10 12 13 SP *Mike Sirotka 4.00 11 13 SP *Jim Parque 5.13 9 15 SP Jaime Navarro 6.09 8 13 SP John Snyder 6.68 9 12

I disagree, I think the main problem with the 2001 sox was the main part of the rotation, not the 5th starter. Wright went 5-3 Kip Wells went 10-11 and Garland was 6-7, those are all typical 5th starter stats. Its 2002 when you get into trouble, because they didnt even have another top of the rotation guy to go along with Mark Buehrle. And last year, they were all pretty average except for Loaiza, but the 5th guy was non-existant.

You can still see footage of me in the outfield shaking my head when half the team went 0 for the series, man that hurt

What proves that he is going to be an elite catcher, are you that scary of a judge of talent????? Seems to me his numbers pretty much look the same as they have

TIMBER!!!!!!!!!! And here goes that argument. Baldwin 6 IP 3 hits 1 earned run Parque 6 ip 6 hits 3 earned runs Sirotka 5.2 IP 7 hits 3 earned runs If this is an overworked starting staff, then a healthy one must be lights-out If you starters can give up 3 runs, that looks like a chance to win to me, not to mention Baldwin's 1 earned run. I remember watching that series and knowing that it wasnt our starters who blew it, our offense (1 HR) (16 hits) and the bullpen was what really suffered. BTW the first game went 10 innings we only score 4 runs. Second game we only scored 2 runs, and third, a miserable 1 run. I was there.

I like Uribe and Harris, I was pointing out that other people dont. I think that you may be able to get some replacements in trade for Garland, and possibly crede. This would def free up some cash for either signing a top flight starter or some extra players in the infield. Either way that they find a way to use the cash, I dont care. I am just very very against paying our 5th starter the money that Garland will be owed. That seems like a waste of money to me, when we could fill his hole with someone already in our system and possibly get some value while people still think he has potential.

6-7 mill plus Garlands 3 million = 10 million for starter, have a much more solid 1-4 rotation with a 5th starter at under a mill, who can achieve the same mediocre record as Garland. I would rather have a weak 5th starter, like we do now, and have a very solid 1-4, than have an ok 1-3 a weak 4th starter (garland) and black hole fifth. Or if we sign a decent FA pitcher, we will have an ok1-4 with an overpaid 5th starter This means you are taking a rotation with two bad holes at the bottom. And replacing it with a much more solid 1-4 with possibly a better # 1 or #2 guy, and putting one of the younger less proven guys at the bottom. This would make the pitching alot more effective than in previous years, where we never had an ACE. And the bottom 2 or 3 slots were all question marks

We can just start our own thread

Borchard, Everett, come on, not exactly Maggs material. And I have already said what will replace Garland as stated in my previous 100 posts on this subject. And that leaves 1 starting pitcher to be replaced, not 2. If you want to replace Maggs with another Bat, and sign possibly another infielder since nobody seems to think Uribe, Valdez, willie or crede can start, those are some Holes to fill. Especially for those who want to sign Koskie. So no, my way leave less holes O'Doyle Rules

12 games in the majors----no proof of what he can do. You can post stats, psych references or sabermetrics. He has only 12 games of experience, nobody should be closing the door on him yet. He came back from arm surgery, made it through the system, and is pitching with energy. I dont think he is going to be an ace, but I think that he can be as good as Garland has been, and can go about .500 for a season. This at a larger discount, and it sounds good to me, and I think to KW (the real GM) as well. Whether it is him, BMAC, Felix or whoever, they need to save some money somewhere, and I think this is the spot

And if we factor inroughly 3 mill if we got ride of jon, then we could have some room to work with on the FA market. You forget that ridding ourselves of those contract are also ridding ourselves of starters

There isnt, this is the white sox we are talking about, im not sure if you got a north side flashback or something, but we have no money.

Getting rid of his salary may increase the offer to a FA

No offense, but I would rather drop Garland than trade either one of those guys

I hated Jose but loved his Stach to Jose's stach, one of the greatest ever

I was trying to think of what QB's are out there unsigned, all I could come up with is Jeff George, anyone else have any suggestions. And forget about trades, this was a rebuilding year anyway, with all new talent, and defensive line with an average age of 23, and a new QB and RB. I say pack it in, go for the first draft pick and win next year. You dont want to give away a player right now for a backup QB next year

PFFFFFFFF

And we wont have enough players to make the playoffs if the 5th starter makes that much money. And therein lies the dilemma

And the Winner is Santo=Dorf the most correct post yet

And querty, you dont like Garland anyway, and you said yourself he isnt even good enough to be a 5th starter "Once more 6 innings and 4 earned runs may keep you in the game but it is a digusting era. The point of a 3-4 starter is to win more game than they lose unlike garland. 6 innings and 4 earned runs is more like 6th starter territory. "

Great, thanks for the info, come back when you figure it out