nitetrain8601

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:56 PM) Cubs are in the market for a closer. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/cubs...op-closers.html Yep. Robertson for who though?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:10 PM) Right. The fact is you are showing us why Chris Sale cannot be traded. We all are overvaluing the return because that is exactly what would have to happen for him to leave at this juncture. Pollock is pretty awesome. I would trad Q straight up for him myself. So instead of filling up two gaps with players who are cost controlled as well, are every day players, and top 10 prospects within the last year, you rather hold onto Sale?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) As a Sox fan, it would really suck being stuck watching Sale pitch his prime years on the South Side. Gawd how depressing that idea is. As a Sox fan, it would really suck being stuck watching Sale pitch his prime years on the South Side, striking out 10, giving up one run and losing. Don't put a man over the team.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:01 PM) Sale's contract is the big difference. Santana had a year left. Sale has four cost controlled years, two being options. Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:40 PM) If we can't get full value for his prime years because his value is too high...yes? That's better than building a viable team?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:17 PM) IIRC Santana only had 1 year left on his contract when he was traded, and even then people thought the Mets final offer was underwhelming. The Yankees and Red Sox hypothetical deals were a lot better, the Red Sox reportedly offered two of Lester/Ellsbury/Bucholz + Crisp + Jed Lowrie + another pitcher. That would have been a huge haul, and IMO better than Urias/Pederson/Verdugo, and that was for one expensive year of Santana, not 4 cheap years of Sale. Red Sox flat out told Minny they weren't going to give up both Ellsbury and Lester in the same deal. The Yanks offered Melky, Phil Hughes and a lower level prospect. And at the time, Johan was seen as the sure-fire, no doubt about it, best pitcher in baseball. The Twins wanted two of the three (which might I add, is less than what you guys are demanding from the Dodgers) Ellsbury, Lester Bucholz. Boston countered with Lowrie (not a top 10 prospect in their system at the time), Ellz OR Lester, and Coco Crisp. On top they added a lower level pitcher, possibly Justin Masterson who wasn't a top 10 prospect in their system at the time either. So Red Sox: Ellsbury or Lester Lowrie (not a top 10 prospect in their system at the time) Crisp (MLB player) possibly Justin Masterson (not a top 10 prospect) http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...007/262814.html Yankees: Phil Hughes (#1 Yankees Prospect) Melky Cabrera(MLB Player) third prospect who they refused to to be one of their top ones (Kennedy, Horne or Austin Jackson) http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...007/262804.html http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088 So despite what you may or may not feel. There is no precedent for asking for the crazy packages you guys are asking for.

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) Greinke has some close friends that own Sportiqe, a sports & music t-shirt company out of Tempe, AZ. They actually have some of the most comfortable shirts you will ever wear. http://sportiqe.com/ Probably a part of the reason, along with the low pressure of the market & huge amount of $$$ why he chose AZ. Don't underestimate the fact that half his games now he will know that the weather will be nice, roof open or closed. Something that might add to his anxiety in rainy areas like So Cal or SF. They also have some great young hitters, some young pitching talent, and tons to spend. Don't forget the DBacks just signed a $1 Billion Dollar TV Contract with Fox Sports in the last 2 years. SoCal is rainy? You sure about that?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:09 PM) Yeah, I agree. That's why he won't be traded. So waste prime years huh? Because the longer you wait, the asking price goes down.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) There is no precedence. That's why he probably won't be traded for a few years, if at all. Plus, you can't just compare Sale to past elite pitchers in a vacuum. His contract is an enormous differentiator that adds oodles of value. But you can. There's no justifying what you guys are asking for. Yes, I want the Dodgers top 5 prospects as well, 3 of which are MLB ready. But that ain't happening.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:00 PM) Soler + Contreras for Q? Pass. Soler was replacement level this year even with an unsustainably high BABIP and even modest improvement from him means only 1ish WAR. Contreras is nice but when he's the biggest piece in a 2-person deal that's a problem. Why would Urias not fill a need? If we trade Sale then pitching suddenly becomes a huge need. Because the #1 thing this team can develop is pitching. We still have pitching in the wings. Like I've asked the others, show me where commanding a team's last 3 #1 prospects that haven't busted become precedence for an ace pitcher? Seager + Verdugo/Contreras fill a need. You can probably get a lower A prospect as well. They had this pitcher pitching in the fall league that looked like he can be something if you're so hell-bent on pitching. I'll take the everyday players. What's to stop the Dodgers from laughing at that and then dealing maybe one of those prospects for S. Miller from Atlanta. Yes, I want all of the Dodgers prospects, but that's never going to happen.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:52 PM) Seager and Pedrson/Verdugo doesn't even come close to sniffing Sale. Not even close. Again, I'll wait for someone to show me where the precedence is three top 10 prospects in all of baseball. I don't think even Johann Santana commanded that much.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:45 PM) going with the numbers you mention, i too am looking for quantity and i hate that i needed to look at this way. but those holes are glaring. i will not go for ped nor seag nor urias, instead i am looking for a little more in prospects. i like hernandez + peraza move to ss + barnes there is some question as of late on whether he can catch at the mlb level + holmes + farmer + Heredia + comp pick I wouldn't go for Urias as he doesn't fill a need. But Seager can play SS, 3B or 2B. Pederson or Verdugo fill an OF spot. I don't view k*** as being any better than just a glue guy. Barnes would be a nice get too IMO. I would want to follow up a Sale trade with a Q trade to Boston or the Cubs. From the Red Sox I would want Swihart and Devers. From the Cubs I would want Soler + Contreras.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:30 PM) While quality is obviously important I think quantity also needs to be considered given the present lack of position player talent throughout the organization. 1 of Seager/Pederson would have to be involved, but I think I might take a package of lesser guys rather than trying to hold out for both. 1 of Pederson/Seager + 1 of kikè Hernandez/Jose Peraza, + Austin Barnes, + Scott Van Slyke sounds like a great package to me. Maybe even DeLeon too if it's Sale involved. You're asking for all their prospects, lol. But you have the right idea. If they don't want to deal both Pederson/Seager or Puig, I'd go for the Seager or Pederson + Verdugo + Barnes.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) I think the Dodgers would hesitate at just a Seager and Urias for Sale swap, Friedman is really big on his prospects. I think so as well. And they still value Puig very highly. That's why for me, I think a Seager, Pederson/Verdugo would be fine. If you can squeeze out Puig from them too, that would be great.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 12:42 PM) We probably already have more wins than the lakers and sixes will have Yep. Lakers have no business winning. Russell is crap. I think his absolute peak is Mike Conley Jr. He'll be a serviceable option more than likely and nothing more. Randle to me is Taj Gibson with starters minutes. They need Simmons desperately IMO. Even if they end up with the worse record in the NBA, they only have a 75% chance of keeping their pick since it's only top 3 protected. Even then, it's a two person draft IMO. Simmons and Skal. Ingram is eh to me.

Diamondbacks are doing things right. Build up their squad through the farm system, then supplementing with stars where needed. They actually went through with a patient approach (fanbase down there allows for it better I'm guessing) and it's working out so far. They need another starter at least. I'd expect them to make the playoffs in 2017. I just rather them give that deal to a younger player in Price.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) WhiteSox currently have picks #10 and #30. Looking like they'll be #10 and something around #25 overall. Any idea on what can be available at that time? Sox really need to hit on those picks and hopefully they are hitters. Last hitter they've developed internally has been who? Carlos Lee??

If the Giants sign a pitcher to a big deal, you can be sure that it won't work out. From what I've heard, Samardzja got the supposed 100 mil offer from Arizona, he put the announcement out there to get the Cubs attention. Cubs quickly decided they didn't want to pay that much to him. They signed Lackey. DBacks were able to quickly strike a deal with Greinke. Samardzja realized his two best suitors had just gone down the pipe really quick. Cardinals didn't formally make an offer to him. Unsure of contact with Dodgers at this time. SF checked in immediately after they found out about Greinke. Samardzja didn't expect to have to get a deal done until next week.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 01:33 AM) Because Greinke and Price just upped Sale's value. You have a proven ace that's on the most team friendly deal in baseball. So suddenly the Sox are going to take let's say.... Crawford as dead weight and more expensive than Sale. Puig on a down year with attitude issues. Pederson who faltered down the stretch. And Urias, who hasn't seen the bigs. Kyle Drabek once was the centerpiece for Roy Halladay. Mike Olt was a Top 20 prospect in baseball as the centerpiece for Matt Garza. Jacob Turner was an important piece for Anibal Sanchez, who led the league in ERA the following year. Gordon Beckham was a legitimately viable centerpiece for Adrian Gonzalez when A-Gon went on to hit .338 for Boston. That's just people who have been tied to the Sox. Look at Profar for a former #1 overall prospect, can't miss stud who is looking like a miss. Or Jesus Montero. "Can't miss prospects" miss all the time. So if the Sox are dealing the best contract in baseball, they get all the cards. QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 01:34 AM) So for the most valuable pitcher in baseball, we get one of the four I mentioned, plus Puig coming off a down year and now with more off-field issues and we have to take on Carl Crawford.....right and I'm the one smoking crack...yah agree to disagree on that one. As good as Chris Sale is, and he's damn great, you are underselling what the Dodgers have in those prospects. You're talking about 3 ready made prospects off the bat. You're talking about their 2013, 2014, 2015 #1 Prospects in their organization, an OF who has proven he is one of the most electrifying players in baseball coming off a down year. Where is the precedent for a team to get 3 highly rated, MLB ready prospects in a deal for an ace pitcher? First number is their Dodger rank, 2nd is rank amongst the rest of prospects. In 2013 - Puig - #1/#47 In 2014 - Pederson - #1/#34 In 2014 - Seager - #2/#37 In 2014 - Urias - #3/#51 In 2015 - Seager - #1/#5 In 2015 - Pederson - #2/#8 In 2015 - Urias - #3/#10 The midseason rankings had Seager at #1 overall prospect in baseball. Urias #4. Pederson no longer qualified as he started the season up with the big league club. And he started off flaming hot at that. Urias is only 18 years old and he's the #4 prospect in baseball as of midseason last year. Puig, even with his crap year last year, has a career line of .294avg / .371 OBP / .487 SLG% / .858OPS / 141 OPS+. His WAR has been 4.9, 5.3, and 1.1 for a total of 11.3 in only 3 years. I love me Chris Sale. He's great. Best pitcher I've ever seen in a White Sox uniform in my lifetime. I'll argue with anyone that he may be the best pitcher in baseball. But you are asking for 3 prospects who have shown great improvement every year, becoming as high as 3 top ten prospects in all of baseball, plus a stud OF who struggled last year and still put up a positive WAR last year, without taking on Carl Crawford's salary on top of that? Again, I ask, what's the precedence?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 12:18 AM) Yeah, Sox aren't doing that. I don't know why they wouldn't. To get 3 potential studs for one? That's an easy yes to me.

Sox have to strike within the first two days of the Winter Meetings, prior to guys like Cueto, Samardzja agreeing IMO. Right now, Giants and Dodgers didn't want to lose out on Greinke and the Dodgers especially feel like this is an epic loss if you listen to them on talk radio along with most media in LA. You offer them Sale right now, you'll get a great offer off the bat.

Sox aren't getting Seager, Pederson, Urias and DeLeon for Sale. You have to be smoking serious rocks if you think that. Your best bet is to get two of those guys and maybe Puig while also taking on Carl Crawford's contract.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) San Bernadino is a super odd city to carry out one of these attacks and the target is even weirder. I agree. To me, if you're trying to perform a terrorist act, it would make more sense to hit up one building with a ton of people in a large city where the US would take it personal. LA, Chicago, New York. That's why I think the 9/11 tragedy resonated with everyone. It was a large american city which killed so many. If this was a terrorist act, why not drive 45 minutes to LA, go into a downtown office building and start spraying? You hit more people without having to hit up multiple places. Therefore your chance of destruction is even larger. You may say, they wanted to keep their lives but the mis-steps made after going home were that of an amateur that didn't know what he/she was doing. QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 12:04 PM) Given the results, it was a pretty "soft" target. He was already very familiar with it, so he didn't have to do much recon of the building, they managed to go in and out and escape for a while. The fact that he worked there maybe added a little personal touch to it. While it may not fit the popular ISIS narrative, it still will lead to the same result with the public if he is found to have been converted after his trip to the Middle East. What makes less sense is this - they essentially got away with it. It was 5 hours which is more than enough to board a plane and be on their merry way. Hell, they didn't close down freeway exits until 3 hours after it happened. By then, even though they stupidly chose to go home, as long as they removed the vests, layed low, they still probably would've been able to get away with it. What makes it bizarre to me is that they chose to go home instead of booking it to Ontario Airport (20 minute ride at that point in time) and flying out to some other city. I still believe it was a situation where the employee was pissed at his co-workers, managers, etc. and it was brewing for some time. Maybe he was promised something, who knows. He attends this party initially to make sure his targets show up. When they do, he leaves. He paces back and forth wondering if he should go through with it. He's convinced he should. He gets the guns and gear and goes for it.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 01:02 PM) A lot of people said that about the deal the Dodgers gave Greinke last time and he outperformed that massive deal, imo. Odds are more against him doing it again, given his age, but he's an elite pitcher. Personally, I take him over Lee (especially since you might be able to get him for less years). Greinke is the type of pitcher that I think holds up better as he ages than a guy like Price. I might be wrong though and unless I was a franchise with very deep pockets (i.e., LA / Boston / NY), I wouldn't even entertain any of these type of pitchers ever on the FA market. Downside is too crippling to a franchise. Greinke has had arm trouble the past two years. I rather pay him 50 million for one year than pay him 200 million over 5

I think it was a mistake. It will surely go bad by year 3. I'd never sign a pitcher over 27 to a deal more than 4 years. The Greinke deal will be even worse, but LA radio for the most part is like "We have to sign the guy. We can't let the Giants get him." I think it's the exact opposite. Every big deal the Giants give a pitcher turns to s***.