nitetrain8601

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 12:04 AM) Why aren't the Reds "going for it?" They had Cueto, Chapman and Leake. They had the great Bruce (see earlier threads fawning on this guy), Votto and the speedy Hamilton and the elite, the super duper, the best of the best Todd Frazier. They had Marlon Byrd and Brandon Phillips, both of whom outhit Melky. Why did they suck so badly with all of this elite talent? Seems like 1 or 2 pitchers would have put them over the top. Once they let go of Baker, it all fell apart. You can say maybe that team proved it cannot play up to its talents, but Dusty, for all the s*** he gets, got the most out of them like he did for the Cubs and Giants.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:17 PM) Would Upton, trading for Lawrie, re-signing Alexei be enough? It feels like we would still need to make one more addition to put us over the top. I rather go after Cespedes to wake up this sleepy lockerroom. Upton is a nice player and I think only 2 years older than Heyward.

Bob Nightengale predicted the Sox sign Upton.

MLB Tonight is broadcasting live form the Winter Meetings for those of you who can't get enough. It just started.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Completely disagree with about everything in your post. OSU last year is definitely better than this MSU team but Bama is much much worse. Agreed.

Yesterday was the first day I watched Iowa all season long and they definitely looked deserving to be in the Final Four. I'll catch them in Pasadena though live.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:40 PM) You said every player is far from a sure thing, then when someone points out why 4 of these are far from sure things you call it a cop out. That doesn't make sense. Yes I did. He sarcastically pointed out why Pederson, Seager, Urias and Puig would be such a throwing darts at the board in the dark move.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 05:47 PM) Do GMs arrive in Nashville tonight? If so, we could have some late night activity. Yes they do. MLB Network will have a live special in about 20 minutes from Nashville. Also, I wonder if Sox and Cubs would agree upon a Q & Robertson deal for Wilson Contreras, Jorge Soler, Javier Baez and filler.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 05:32 PM) Especially players that have barely sniffed the bigs (Seager), finished their rookie year with a .210 average (Pederson), not been called up yet (Urias) or are in legal trouble after a tumultuous year that involves his own team disliking him (Puig). That's such a copout argument, it's ridiculous. And very shortsighted at that. Pederson made the all-star team, still had a .346 OBP and .417 after slowing down in his ROOKIE CAMPAIGN. He also had a 2.3 WAR and 112 OPS+. Urias is only 18/19 and is not requirement for such a discussion to take place. Puig is not in any legal trouble. And Seager is considered the #1 prospect in baseball as of midseason IIRC. I guess no veterans should ever be dealt for prospects or even young MLB players...BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT THE VETERANS ARE!!

Frazier, Phillips and Bruce are all available.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) soooo many options will be at their disposal. I don't forsee it. Their GM has been on LA Radio the past two weeks. They want bullpen help. Plus it doesn't make sense to acquire Chapman just to dump Jansen contract wise.

Dodgers want to finish off games early. Jansen was the only really reliable guy all year. Cubs want to go ahead and do the same thing along with the Astros.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 04:14 PM) Again, injuries are a risk with any MLB pitcher, not just Sale. You're grasping at straws if that's the only reason why you think he should be traded. It's far from the only reason. In fact, it's towards the bottom of reasons. I've stated my reasons all over this thread. The reason why I bring it up is because everyone believes Sale is a for sure thing through 2020. Every player is far from a sure thing.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 12:11 PM) If they did that trade draft day, I'd be furious. For Porzingis, at the time, I probably would've been mad because I didn't think he would be any different than what Mirotic would be. With that stated, if they did that trade and were able to get Jhalil or Towns, I would've been all over it. The more and more Mirotic plays, the more he proves that the projections from people outside of the Bulls was right. His ceiling is Hedo Turkoglu. A nice player, but certainly not one to lose sleep over.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 03:53 PM) This right here is all that needs to be said. A trade based around two established all stars ensures that both teams get what they are looking for. Any discrepancies in the values between the two players can easily be worked out with a minor leaguer or two so the trade had much less moving pieces and easier for both teams to pull the trigger. Ok, if you do that, does that help your team? All you did was add a stud 3B, but you lost a stud SP. You literally took one asset and shifted it to a different position. But you still have the same amount of holes on your team. That trade doesn't do the Sox favors. The purpose in trading for top prospects back as opposed to established studs is that you can get more of them back. So you fill 2 for 1, a net gain of at least 1. You trade Sale for Arrenado, you do a 1 for 1 deal. No net gain.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) i agree with what you are saying. but man i wish i had a link to that fo for this, and hope they can see the point that we as fans want to make. as i posted in another post. the sox have at this time 90 mil add another 10 for bonuses and arb. trade hard on the farm and somewhat thin out what may be a little cluster at the pitching and get rid some of the players that may not be needed in the team in the next 2 or 3 yrs. make a hard decision on 1 sp to be traded.... trade or nice pieces and extra bodies. take the salary payroll to 140.... with the understanding that 28 mill will come off at the season end due to expiring contracts. now here is the tricky point, in accounting, the yr of profit and lose is yr to yr, so at season end, that 28 mil can be worked in per IRS. 140-28 = 112 going into 2017 season. hopefully the team will have had a better season with the new players prospects being traded for and the sox very own prospects. after the 2017 season melky contract comes off the books giving the sox 97 mil. they the sox owner will be in a nice economic position again... main question, would leake be a nice pickup at 15 mil +/-?? Leake would be a bad pickup as he doesn't address the lack of defense or offense on this team.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) Agreed. If I'm trading Sale, I want ML ready talent or young guys with experience already. (Think Betts, Bryant etc) We don't know how guys like the Dodgers Seager for example will pan out, especially in our system. We were fortunate with Eaton at the time when we got him. Except guys like Seager have experience. If you get Pederson, he's another guy with experience. They are exactly what you think Betts and Bryant are (young guys with experience). And yes, they started a significant amount of games last year. Here's some food for thought for you guys who feel like you can't trade Sale except in a for sure deal - Sale dropped in the draft because of his delivery. He's spent time on the DL already. You can't guarantee that his arm won't snap off can you? You can't guarantee his success over the next 6 years. Hell, everyone thought Danks was a sure thing since he didn't throw too hard, had a pretty good delivery and looked durable. Let's look at a situation in which dealing an ace pitcher can help your franchise, even 10 years down the line. Mark Mulder for Haren, Calero, and Barton in 2004. That trade is still paying dividends for Oakland: *Haren (and Connor Robertson) was traded in 2007 for Brett Anderson, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham, Dana Eveland, Carlos Gonzalez, and Greg Smith. *Anderson was traded for Drew Pomeranz and Chris Jensen. *Pomeranz was just traded for Yonder alonso and Mark Rcyznzpnap Scrabble, who are on the 25 man roster. *Cunningham (and Scott Hairston) went to San Diego in 2010 for Kevin Kouzmanoff and Eric Sogard -- Sogard is still on the 25 man roster. *Carter (and Brad Peacock) were sent to Houston in 2013 for Fernando Rodriguez and Jed Lowrie, who is back on the roster now lol. Rodriguez pitched last year and is arby eligible and should bounce back and forth between Oakland and AAA in the bullpen. *CarGo and Smith were traded (with Huston Street) to Colorado for Matt Holliday in 2008. *Holliday was traded in 2009 for Clayton Mortensen, Shane Peterson, and Brett Wallace. *Wallace was traded for Michael Taylor, who was traded for Jake Sanchez. Sanchez is still in the A's minor league system. So right now in 2015 the A's can trace back 6 players currently with the team back to the Mark Mulder trade 11 years ago.

I saw the replay, and yes, UNC did get royally screwed over. No one offsides, they were down by 8, but would've had all 3 timeouts left at the time.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 07:04 PM) Sale's value right now >>>>> Santana's value in 2008, I don't know why you keep thinking the packages should be similar. Three extra years means two extra great prospects compared to Santana, at a minimum. Santana's value was higher than Sale's. The difference is going to be contracts. The argument is that his contract is worth at least a 3rd top 10 prospect in baseball. I'm arguing it's really not. Santana was already the sure fire best pitcher in baseball and best of his generation at the time. It's the equivalent of Clayton Kershaw being traded by the Dodgers right now. There's nothing that says his contract is worth 2 extra great prospects. That's ludicrous.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:36 PM) You are funny. But the Twins did get Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber and some filler for him. Sure makes me think the Sox need to trade Sale ASAP for a similar package since he probably isn't the greatest pitcher of his generation, although he would be pitching for about half the money Santana pitched for four seasons. Two prospects and filler. You guys are demanding at least three. And I didn't say its a necessity to trade Sale now. But if you don't plan on buying a bunch of players you should trade him for teams thirsty for SP if you can get 2 or 3 for sure starters back. If you plan on competing next year, be my guest and keep him. What I don't want is a situation which Seattle has with Felix Hernandez. Wasting his career away and years of competing away because you don't feel market value is not market value - to simply prove a point in other words.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:27 PM) Aaaaand not having a 19-3 Greinke in the rotation means nothing? That rotation (sans Kershaw) isn't all that great. Don't be shocked with what they'd give up for a pitcher like Sale...not to mention the contract that he has. To sit there and definitively say "ain't happening" really is condescending since you're not part of the Dodgers ownership group. Don't underestimate what SF moves would make them do either... You're asking a baseball team to give up the 3 of the top ten prospects in all of baseball who are as young and cost controlled for not the #1 pitcher in baseball. No one has been able to cite an example of when a team came even close to doing that when asked. They want to say he's under a bargain deal. So is Felix Hernandez, so is Jose Fernandez. I doubt Florida even asks for that type of haul.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:31 PM) None of that matters if he's suspended. But he hasn't been. None of it matters unless he's kicked from the league.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:27 PM) Repeating this. Puig right now should be viewed as worthless. Even with last year, look at his stats and his age and his health. He's far from worthless. He has down value, but he ain't worthless.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:25 PM) I would do that in a heartbeat. 2 + Puig + Crawford. Apparently that's a severe underpayment by the Dodgers. You guys are also right, I shouldn't compare Santana with Sale because Santana was by far the best pitcher in baseball at the time of the trade and of his generation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:36 PM) And the Dodgers better be ok with missing the playoffs this season if those guys need 1-2 years to adapt to the big leagues. The Dodgers aren't missing the playoffs. And Pederson was a huge part of that last year. Seager will be this year. And they are looking at Zobrist as well.