Rowand44

I'm pretty sure Eischen is still under Nats control. EDIT: Maybe not, I see he has a protected contract yet he's listed as a FA so I'm not sure. He's definitely a guy I'd like to look at if he's available. Ok, he's still on the 40 man roster of the Nats so he's not a fa. Problem solved.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:52 AM) The sox AA and high a teams were among the best teams in their leagues. Don't they have players that could help in 2007, 2008? Broadway, Lumsden, Liotta, Tracey(though I'm not high on him) just to name a few. This whole team is virtually together through 07, by 08 we'll have plenty of prospects on the verge. It all makes sense if you think about it and Kenny's 3 year board that he always talks about.

Awesome news, steff. I'm glad to hear it.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:07 AM) The Score also just reported at 3:00 A.M. that we are receiving money from the Diamondbacks in the deal. Did they speculate as to how much?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:02 AM) whereas undervaluing our own talent. I think it's more of a case that some of us over value our prospects then Kenny undervaluing them. Kenny hasn't made a trade in forever that has come back to bite us in the ass.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:36 AM) See, that's where we have our differences. You think Garland stays....I don't think there's a chance in hell he's on the White Sox next season. Thus, your scenario has McCarthy in the pen, which is a real asset. However, I think McCarthy will be in the starting rotation, and our bullpen will be weaker. I also highly doubt Baj has impressed Ozzie enough to make the roster. I know it's a short stint he's had, but Ozzie's the type of guy to form an impression based on a short period. To be honest fathom, I don't know what to expect anymore.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:30 AM) Yeah, I fixed that problem. Typed too quickly and didn't bother to proofread before I posted. I'll hold out hope the financial details of the trade have yet to be released. We didn't know Vizcaino was included until nearly two hours after intitial news surfaced. If Arizona truly isn't paying ANY portion of Vazquez's deal, then Williams deserves to be heavily criticized. World Series or not, you still have to be a sensible general manager. EDIT: I didn't notice the link posted above by SSH. Until the exact figures are released, I'll hold judgement. You wanted him to be criticized after the deadline as well for only trading for Blum and we all know how that turned out. Just let the guy do his thing, no offense flash but I think he knows a little bit more then you and I. You even said before you wouldn't judge any of Kenny's moves before knowing what comes after, yet you seem already to jump all over him for this. You seem to like bashing him for some reason.

Basically imo, we've lost one solid bullpen arm. Damaso was horrendous last year, the Duke is being replaced by Brandon as of right now which is an upgrade, and then there is viz who we are losing. We had 6 bullpen arms that were mainstays in the pen last year in: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, Damaso, and Viz. Now we have: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, and Brandon, so that's 1 arm short from last year. If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:23 AM) First, I'm sure you mean Garland, not Garcia. As I said in a PM recently, I honestly liked the health of the Sox franchise better 24 hours ago than I do right now. Flash....I don't think that Arizona is going to pay any of Vazquez's deal. KW is really, really overpaying here. The article that says Viz was in the deal also states we're getting money back. Flash, why are you so quick to bash Kenny? You did this at the deadline too, let him do his thing.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:14 AM) I'm not sure if I'm joking or not, but it wouldn't shock me if Ozzie has plans on bringing Urbina to the Sox if the charges get dropped. Interesting thought.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:09 AM) I doubt I'm the only one happy to get rid of Duque and Viz. They were clearly out two worst pitchers that we sent out to the mound on a consistent basis. And might I be the first in this thread to say that Baj shouldn't be considered a legit fill-in for our bullpen holes. He's shown nothing at the MLB level to suggest he can be a quality reliever. Damaso was worse then Viz imo. Viz was solid, nothing spectacular but he was a nice guy to have at the end of your bullpen. Kenny ain't done now, I'm sure he's going to find ways to upgrade the pen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:01 AM) No surprise there, as Vizcaino was rumored to possibly be traded to Arizona last season. I'm not too worried about losing Viz. Viz was solid, he was some nice added depth. This helps make the money issue a little closer that's probably why he was tossed in. I think this just about guarantees that Jon won't be traded unless it's for extra pitching. Brandon will need to be in the pen now.

This trade just got much worse. According to Newsday, the Diamondbacks will receive Luis Vizcaino along with Chris Young and Orlando Hernandez from the White Sox for Javier Vazquez.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) Yeah, something about it makes all breaking stuff less effective. That's why when McCarthy's curve was working well last year in ST, people were raving about him. Thin air.

Garland for Ichiro, all done.

QUOTE(letsgoarow @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:01 AM) i just read on cbs.sportsline that it is now el duque for vaz and that would be sweet ass Where on cbssportsline? Link it.

For the record my dad called this, kind of. He called me a few days ago to ask me what the sox traded Hernandez for getting him confused with Damaso.

Jon Garland for Aaron Rowand.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:49 AM) They just dealt for Romero so he's not being traded. They'll never deal Figgins. He'll probably man CF while McPherson gets 3B this year. I agree, I'm just throwing crap out there.

Garland for Figgins and Romero, there all done.

Buehrle to the bullpen anyone? There's our 2nd lefty. I'm joking by the way.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:30 AM) I know he pitched and got bombed in Game 7 of the ALCS. It wasn't pretty, I'm pretty sure he got nailed in the DS as well.

QUOTE(kman @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:28 AM) oh thanks for reasurring me man. I do what I can.

mlb.com is just reporting the Duke and Young so that 2nd pitcher might not even be included.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:20 AM) Actually, the deals had Young and Cotts rumored to be in it. Neal isn't going anywhere, I promise.