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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 06:55 PM) yea Bernstein and Holmes both showed up in the last hour, both desperately trying to seem poignant and make the moment about themselves rather than Boers. The stuff with McNiel, Jiggets and North was awesome but you just knew the "evolved" Score personalities were gonna barge it and ruin it all, and sure enough they did. This is the same as the Hawk vs. Bennetti discussion. Entertainment vs. professionalism. Fans vs. hosts.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 10:04 PM) Isn't that exactly what Hahn is doing? If he wasn't, then Q would have been gone in December. Yes, that is what RH/KW are doing, so far. The key is to not fold and give in to the lesser package at all. It will be interesting to see if they do hold out and not trade him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 09:39 PM) I just get annoyed that we allow teams to expand this notion of not moving players at the trade deadline from the mlb team to a full-blown we won't move players in the offseason that are part of a team's contention window. To me, that is a steaming hot load of bulls***. A player of Quintana's caliber and contract terms justifies a little moving and shaking to the rest of the roster in my opinion. Not only that, but it results in the White Sox being forced to take more risk on players by definition, as those who have less risk associated with them will now be part of the god damned contention window. So now you are accepting players further away from the majors, or else players the team itself sees no immediate use for. I have a very difficult time accepting this. Then call their bluffs and don't trade him. The other teams are waiting for the Sox to lower their demands because they all know the Sox want to trade him. Just don't trade him and maybe they will be forced to trade later.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 09:32 PM) Then I will tell the Pirates and the Astros..."good luck with that". The Pirates want to move McCutchen, but given that he just had a down year they're going to have to give him away at a discount if they're moving him - that much is already clear. So, they get a choice - give McCutchen away at a discount and play for 2018, or actually make a run at things this year. If McCutchen does have some recovery for the year, they'd still be giving him away at a discount next offseason because he'd be under team control for 1 year, and they'll be paying his salary this year. If they hold McCutchen and he does have a comeback year, they're competitive for best outfield in the league, they have a solid infield, but here's their rotation: Cole Taillon Nova Glasnow Kuhl There's some talent in that rotation, but you've got 2 prospects, one of whom has control issues and hit the DL last year, another who is now 2 years removed from TJS, Cole who is a legit top of the rotation starter but who only threw 116 innings last year, Nova who is a "Searage hopefully fixed him" guy, no one in their rotation who threw more than 165 innings total last year, Kuhl who is a sinkerballer and a kid with some talent, and 5 righties/no lefties. That rotation has talent, but for them to challenge the Cubs or Cardinals literally everything needs to go right - if Cole repeated his injury-riddled 2016 then they're not going anywhere. So, they want to go against the Cubs and the Cardinals with that rotation, I say good luck. The Astros want to hold Bregmann and all their other guys? Fine. Keuchel McHugh McCullers Morton Fiers Musgrove There's talent there again, but out of 6 guys, one of them had an ERA below 4 last year, 1 of them threw more than 168 innings, several of them were hurt down the stretch. Really, you're taking that up against Sale/Porcello/Price/Pomeranz/Wright/Rodriguez and Kluber/Carrasco/Salazar/Tomlin/Bauer? Hell, Hamels/Darvish/Perez/Cashner might outpitch them, and there's a real good chance Seattle's rotation does too. So yeah, Astros and Pirates, you guys are confident in those rotations? I say good luck. You're going to need it. I agree. That's why I've said all along that I have no problem with the sox keeping him. He will still be under contract when they are good again so don't give him away. Only trade him if the players they get back are worth more than a TOR proven pitcher.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 08:15 PM) Meadows isn't an MLB player. Bregman isn't why Houston will or won't make the playoffs in 2017. Their 2016 offense plus the position player additions this off season will ensure that in 2017 as well. Their starting pitching certainly is the gaping hole. So GM speak about MLBers aside, Bregman has nothing to do with 2017 but what he'll be eventually as is Meadows. I disagree with Bregman. I think they believe he is very important to the roster. Having a good glove at 3B, especially with their staff, who has good offensive potential is important. As for Meadows, the Pirates have been shopping McCutchen because they can't afford him for the next contract. It appears that Meadows is the replacement. The Pirates need to have at least a shot at the playoffs each year to maintain the fan base. From all reports Meadows is the player who can replace him and they are reluctant to lose a player that close to the MLB, they need to replace an MLB player. all of this is JMHO but it doesn't take a genius to see where these negotiations are going. Maybe RH/KW will wear them down but it sure doesn't look like it.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) Q is worth those guys + but doesn't mean their teams will trade them. That said, I don't think anyone is ever untouchable. Maybe the 'Stros don't want to include Bregman but that could change, same with Meadows and anyone else. There's no reason for posters to keep yelling that "Bregman wont be traded" every time he gets mentioned. No one knows if that's true or not. It does when others insist that he must be included in a trade. It is two different opinions but with the way the reports and process of trading Q have gone, it a pretty good educated guess that the reports that the Astros refuse to trade him are believable.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 06:28 PM) So if Q and his contract aren't worth a prospect like Bregman or Meadows...then who is? I always thought you had to trade more prospects for an allstar MLB player. Apparently now you have to trade more MLB players for one untouchable prospect? GMAFB. Chris Sale was worth the absolute #1 prospect plus three other really good prospects. Jose Quintana can get Bregman+ Jose Quintana can get Meadows+ It's not even a debate. It's just going to have to hurt if you're the Astros or Pirates. That's how trading for Allstar pitchers with legendary contracts works. Boston would not give anyone important to this years team for Sale either. That's why boston traded Moncada, who isn't quite ready, instead of benintendi, who proved he was ready. It all has to do with the upcoming year and making the playoffs. Bregman and Meadows aren't going anywhere for anyone. They will trade from the minor leagues but not the MLB.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 06:14 PM) I love all of these "untouchables" on other teams. Quintana is an absolute stud and is beyond "untouchable"...but guess what, he is touchable. And so are these supposed untouchables from other teams. The stare downs will continue until someone breaks...and someone will break, it just won't be Hahn. He is on a team that is not planning on making the playoffs for a couple of years to rebuild. That is why Q is available. All of the teams being discussed are trying to make the playoffs this year. This is why they want Q. They aren't going to trade pieces important to this year's team to acquire him and decrease the chance of making the playoffs. Boston wouldn't do it for Sale, Washington wouldn't do it for Sale or Eaton. Pittsburgh and the astros won't dot it for Q.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 02:34 PM) Ryan Sheets @RyanSheets_ Willy Garcia led the International League with 17 OF assists in 2016, giving him 53 since the start of 2014. Most in @MiLB in that span. 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes The sox are going to turn him into a pitcher!

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 02:10 PM) How so? Frazier is a 3B run producer whereas Lawrie is an injury riddled 2B with a really nice vertical leap and a "brah". don't forget the designer mouth piece.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) 50 AB's was enough for the Sox to say "meh, if we lose him no biggie" meanwhile Avi is our starting RF'er... They know a whole lot more about him than 50 at bats. He has been in the organization a long time. There are multiple reasons why this type of player may be let go.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 11:15 AM) Interesting data https://d1baseball.com/draft/mlb-draft-study-1996-2011/ nothing really surprising but confirms much of the common sense thoughts about the draft.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 09:32 AM) The Astros have had about 2 words spoken about them for the last month. There's more coverage for what is going to happen to the Astrodome than what they're doing right now. Football and the Rockets, plus new coaches and bowl games. The Pirates...there's always talk about them during the winter even when the Steelers are doing well, but their fans are so used to the way that organization is run that it's an elaborate dance. Talk Radio will complain about them being cheap, they won't reply but they'll continue to make cheap moves, the ballpark will still have a good attendance even if the team is below .500 because it's a spectacular park, and lately the end result anyway has been a good but not great team that everyone sorta gels behind once the season starts. It's Texas. It's always football first.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 11:29 PM) I agree completely. I think Hahn is being pretty firm that it's Bregman+ or no deal, as he rightfully should be saying. How can you trade an Allstar innings-eater on a peanuts deal for tablescrap prospects like Tucker/Martes as a headliner. What an absolute joke of a trade that would be. I would disagree. Hahn/KW got top ,non-MLB dependant, prospect from both boston and Washington in previous deals. They will not get Bregman or other players that playoff contenders are depending on for their upcoming season. The trades will be built around the top prospects not MLB players just as in the previous deals.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 02:32 PM) Well, Tyrod Taylor might not be available because Haha oh you Buffalo Bills (he will be available, but the Bills might have to pay him a lot of money to go away) That writer is an idiot.His comments about NFL players not being able to pass a non-NFL physical shows a complete lack of knowledge of the medical situations. Most of the wording if he got it correct stated the physical by the team physician for injuries during the season. The Bills say they didn't know about the injury and he did everything outside of the Bills medical team. If a player does, it always a big lawsuit, especially in football with non-guaranteed contracts. This ought to be a big lawsuit.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) If he's in the game, of the draft picks and available QBs, Romo is probably the best bet to get the offense humming next year, but also the worst bet to be able to answer the bell a reasonable amount of times. Especially if he can't stay healthy behind that offensive line.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 07:45 AM) . He needs to add talent that can actually stay on the field. White, Goldman, Floyd, they all might be great, but if they can't stay on the field they aren't good picks. His free agents have had a tough time staying on the field as well. Is this more on the coaching/training/strength group more than the GM?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 09:49 AM) Yeah I recognize that. I'm not trying to bash him as an overall prospect/player, I do think he will be able to be a fine regular and I wouldn't be at all upset if we acquired him...He just wouldn't be an ideal #1 hitting prospect we get back for Q in my opinion. I question what his ceiling is, especially if he doesn't become at least an above average defender at 1B.. Mark Grace would be an ideal scenario for Bell, but he could also be Lyle Overbay. nothing wrong with that either, most of the prospects won't have any success in the MLB. I agree that he shouldn't be the main piece in a trade but I don't think he would be. Sounds more like Glasnow would be.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 09:59 AM) Wow the thread title made me think he was out for another year with another surgery. Glad he's progressing well. Yes, that's really good news. It will be interesting to see when and how the running goes.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) I'd take Mateo over Bell...A prospect that is limited to 1B defensively that had a .454 SLG% and only 44 HR's in over 2,000 PA's in the minors is a huge red flag to me. Surprised it isn't for more people honestly. There is good value to an advanced hit tool in a switch hitter along with a high OBP. He profiles as a guy like Mark Grace who was routinely bashed for a lack of power but led the 90's in hits. I would take that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 08:16 AM) His Hawkins take seems to fit right in with Courtney's performance the last few seasons. The Collins take is with a grain of salt IMO. He's seen him twice. Kopech? Who knows? He's seen him pitch more than almost everyone here, but his criticisms, and they really weren't dire, for both seem to be correctable. The one thing that does concern me a bit with Collins is many guys drafted as catchers but are expected to shift to other positions because of defensive concerns bats seem to not live up to the hype. One exception is Paulie. I think there is hope for him as a catcher. Orton seems to be a pretty good instructor. From my understanding, Konerko's main issue to move from catcher was a degenerative hip moreso than defensive issues that weren't linked to the hip. So you can probably take him out of this "exception."

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) And if Rodgers does this at 37, 38 and 39 we can talk. Please. The Tyree catch and the choke by whatever WR that was are infamous. Find me single plays in any of Brady wins to rival those two epic flukes. By your logic Garnett > Duncan. When you're great, you win even when you have no business winning. Tom Brady is a lock to win his 5th title. Keep up with your lame hypotheticals. So longevity and being old is a criteria for the HOF? Julio Franco is a lock for the baseball HOF then.

QUOTE (SouthWallace @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) ChiSoxFanMike's All Scrub team vs BlackSox13's All Flop team. YIKES. Well done gentlemen. Scrub Catcher - Donny Lucy 1B - Alex Cintron 2B - José Lopez SS - Jeff Keppinger 3B - Mark Teahen RF - Avisail Garcia CF - Pablo Ozuna LF - Blake Tekotte DH - Mark Kotsay Backup IF - Jayson Nix Backup OF - Luis Terrero Utility - Ross Gload Utility - Brent Lillibridge Backup Catcher - Toby Hall SP - Jacob Turner SP - Scott Carroll SP - John Danks SP - Mat Latos SP - Felipe Paulino Long Reliever - DJ. Carrasco RP - Ryan Bukvich RP - Frank Francisco Lefty Specialist - Will Ohman Set Up Man - Scott Downs Closer - Ronald Belisario Flop 1B- Adam LaRoche 2B- Wilson Betemit SS- Alex Cintron 3B- Josh Fields OF- Joey Belle OF- George Bell OF- Carl Everette DH- Joe Borchard Bench- Lyle Mouton, Drake LaRoche , Leury Garcia , Oney Guillen SP- Jaime Navarro SP- Todd Ritchie SP- Erik Johnson SP- Aaron Poreda SP- Arnie Munoz Closer- don't need one with that lineup and rotation. Skipper: Terry Bevington i wouldn't call Joey belle a flop. Jerk, yes.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) There needs to be some kind of cap floor so teams that are "rebuilding" still are incentivized to pay free agents even if it's for reasonably short term. Without a cap from the union, the owners won't agree to a floor.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:26 AM) For a year, maybe two. And if Quintana gets hurt or loses effectiveness that plan is shot. I'm not going over again why waiting until the deadline, or worse yet next offseason, to trade Q should also be out of the question. This is the problem with backing up the truck the way the Sox have. It was easy to start the rebuild because they had to be coaxed into doing it. Hahn could easily have pulled Eaton and Sale back and abandoned the rebuild idea if their price wasn't met. But now the cat is out of the bag and everyone knows the Sox have to sell most of these pieces now. At some point Hahn is just going to have to take the best deal on the table because the reality of getting much less next year and the threat of disaster striking and getting nothing is not acceptable. They need to determine if the package in return for Q is worth it. If some of the reports are true, they should not trade him. He is worth more than what they are getting. It is very difficult to replace a proven TOR pitcher. He should not be traded unless the value is there. There is no reason to trade him for anything less. Your view of having to trade him now is too short sighted. Even if he is only around for a year or two when they are good again, that has more value than some of the offers.