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QUOTE (soxfan85 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 10:11 PM) Trying not to get to optimistic here...but it feels great to win and we do play Cleveland 10 more times...hopefully, just hopefully, we can start beating AL Central Teams (other than just beating the Twins) in the second half Wouldn't that be nice......

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 10:15 PM) my complaint is with the perception I guess, he's fine but RV seems to treat him with kid arms. I'd just let him rest today. He'll get plenty of rest with the AS break coming up. Now is the time to get him work and keep him sharp. I bet you see him in at least two of the ATL games, needed or not. Edit: he's on pace this year to exceed his highest season total for innings. That's not handling him with kid gloves.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 10:09 PM) of course, RV trying to get a guy work almost came back to haunt him. RV just manages the pen too loose imo. Don't bring the close in to a non save situation, ever, who cares if he needs the work especially with David his arm is glass apparently. I don't recall him missing much time.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 10:05 PM) Ventura getting "too cute" here trying to get him into a game against his former team when it wasn't really necessary. When it comes to the closer, it's usually the player usually who decides how often he needs to work to stay sharp as he can go a number of games without pitching. with the long break coming up they have decided he needed the work. That's the only reason he would be in.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:50 PM) The least 10 posted in game threads.... the Sox are 6-4 Okay now I'm really done with research. Doesn't appear to be much a correlation this year. i was kidding about making a thread about threads.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:48 PM) What team has more fans in winning/blowout games than close/controversial losses? The Cubs? Cardinals? Red Sox? Plus, Shields' run of 4-5 starts there was historical, unprecedented levels of bad. It was a train wreck or a NASCAR 13 car pile-up at Darlington. NASCAR! I need to bring that back instead of Unbelievable..........

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:37 PM) The 20 longest game threads this year....the Sox are 11-9. Don't feel like doing more research than that. You don't want to start a thread about threads?

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) Let's take 2 of 3 from Braves. Come back from all star game with Morneau and Jackson back in lineup. Trade for Lucroy. Make the second wildcard. Start Sale that game. Then get serious. Jackson will take a little longer than right after the break. Probably, 1-2 weeks.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) In the playoff hunt about to win their 5th series in a row. Just horrible. Don't reply. He's just doing that to increase the post count. That why he can say the win today had as many posts as the loss yesterday. although he'll need to do it many times over to get it there.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) He used to try and kill every worm on the way to the base with a 18 hopper from center field. Something about RF has allowed him to fix his launch point. Someone pointed out to me this spring that he actually had one of the highest recorded velocities from the OF last year in all of MLB (when I said he had a weak arm) but actually it was mostly just a really s***ty launch angle. Not to mention that it was another year post shoulder surgery.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 03:05 PM) So at those moments when you yourself "criticize irrationally", which you do from time to time, you would self-assess yourself as "irrational"? I mean, I would presume you are not exempting yourself from this statement. I think everyone does from time to time. Some people just do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 1h1 hour ago Chicago, IL Burdi making his Birmingham debut after being promoted. Could be a little bit of nerves involved. Had not walked anyone in prev. 5 games Wait a minute, that would mean he is a human being with emotions and everything.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Yeah, but there's a "cluster." When Rodon's at his best, he's throwing 95-98 MPH fastballs, with 94 being the "middle ground" range. When he's been getting absolutely hammered with the fastball (and usually, it's first pitch/earlier in games)....it's almost always at 90-93 MPH, but specifically 92-93 MPH, at least since the first month of the season. It has been this same exact trend over and over and over again. Nobody wants Rodon to (over)throw 97-99 and ruin his arm/shoulder. That's not the point. Chris Sale can get away with this same exact strategy because of his slurve, different arm angles and especially having that change-up available in his arsenal. He certainly has the ability to pitch confidently when behind in the count, you can understand why Rodon hasn't/doesn't looking at his pitch selection (unless we want to blame all this on the catchers/Cooper.) I think he is having such difficulty commanding the strike zone that he is "aiming" the fastball just to get strikes. If he "let's it go" he doesn't have the confidence it will be a strike. This or the tired arm. Each of these will cause pitches to elevate and he was leaving everything up yesterday.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:57 AM) Fulmer was a top 10 pick. Starter should be the expectation, not the upside. Winning organizations do not use top 10 picks for bullpen expectations. Sox passed on best college hitter in the draft, so I certainly hope that 3 or above Starter was and is the expectation. Bullpen for #26 is dubious proposition itself, But for a top 10, it's ridiculous. Then pick someone else. As said above, it's unreasonable to expect him to be an ace right now. But the clock is still ticking. The value of 6 years of a top of the rotation guy, is now down to 3 or 4 because 2 or 3 years of service time are used for development. And, at least in 2015, he should have been used in Chicago like he would have been used in the minors...development, including getting that change-up fixed as the priority over getting the next guy out. But that's hard to do in the majors. And it wasn't done. And it's understandable. Major league coaches are there to help pitchers get the next batter out...not to develop for 2 years from now. And you wonder why I'm frustrated with this front office? And I think it is. I was referring to the worst case scenario.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 11:52 AM) What you are saying is true, but you're still tap-dancing around the fact that stats don't tell the whole story when judging performance… Specifically , the Sox bullpen.. Look at Albers. you might look at his numbers and say, hmm not too bad.. but those numbers are skewed by a short burst of good performance.. currently, the guy can barely get anyone out.. So it's not a matter of burying one's head in the sand, it's a matter of realistically looking at performance…and my judgement of the bullpen isn't based on one game I attended.. it's based on shaky performance going all the way back to early May You can blame injuries.. that's fine.. that's a valid point.. I will contend though, that the injuries really exposed the lack of depth inherent in the organization.. Bottom line...it's really the classic glass half full/half empty.. But hey, I get the narrative.. fans that criticize the organization are irrational and rant mindlessly, don't have all the information, but yet act like they have all the answers .. miserable whiners who find any reason to complain… love when the team loses so they can flaunt it in the face of the optimists… I can see where it might be cooler to be staunch pro - Sox organization.. It gives the illusion that those of your ilk may have some inside info that we, unwashed masses aren't privy to.. It gives the illusion that you are a better fan, stick with the team thru thick and thin… The crappy Chris Rongey type of attitude, is certainly your right to adhere to… the fatal flaw is, those of your ilk have decided to jump all over anyone with a critical point of view and paint them with broad strokes as a bunch of lunatics... Or are they skewed by the burst of difficulty and he will bounce back. The point is that you cannot judge the team solely on the middle group of games when they were performing poorly. They did play quite well early and have played pretty well as of late. All players and teams will have hills and valleys throughout the season. You need to look at the performance as a whole. They weren't as good as the first 33 and weren't as bad as the next 23. Probably more like the last few games, somewhere in the middle of winning a few series in a row then losing some.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 11:50 PM) Pretty sure it's Curt Hasler now. Champion got bumped up on the food chain. Ok. That is the guy you should criticize if you have a beef about the way the young guns are progressing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 10:41 PM) Just seems that things are getting stale with Cooper. Rodon seems to have hit a wall. Fulmer has struggled for major stretches. Adams' velocity is down significantly, as are his strikeouts. Sometimes you outsmart everyone (see Chris Sale), but that's not necessarily an indicator of future success (turning projected relievers into starters), just as Anderson's success doesn't mean the White Sox can't ever develop position prospects despite a decades-long struggle in that area. The White Sox do take more pitching risks than other organizations. I do feel a lot of Cooper's reputation (recently) is based on Jose Quintana, and he's about as conventional/textbook as you get mechanically for a lefty. There weren't any major alterations with him from Day 1 (like they're currently going through w/ both Fulmer and Adams). Still, Jordan Stephens is another ray of hope. These almost always pop up on the pitching side, where they have great development people (who have obviously also worked with Cooper for many years, the guys like Hasler, Burns and Perdew). You do realize that Fulmer is in his first full season of pro ball and Adams is in his second year while being 20 y/o. Young pitchers do struggle. Just because they struggle does not mean you should give up on them. Also, cooper has very little to do with them at this stage. That's more for the minor league pitching coordinator, Kirk Champion I believe, and their individual pitching coaches.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) There were also a number of concerns about Fulmer and Danish having the ability to make it to the big leagues as starters when they were drafted. Sale, Fulmer and Burdi...all quite obviously (of course, Tyler was a lesser draft choice). Just wonder how many times they can go against the grain or conventional scouting wisdom??? Even Rodon has lots of mechanical issues that PTAC has been on top of since the first moment he was drafted, and which have proved to be pretty prophetic (so far). Im not sure where this going against the grain comes from. Many "experts" said before the draft that Burdi would be able to help a MLB pen this year. Most teams will take a pitcher like fulmer and start him if nothing else to huild his arm up to handle an MLB pen load. The upside could be that he ends up bring a starter. Rodon was considered one if thetop arms in the draft. The sox git him lower than most "experts" thought he would go. The sox aren't doing anything different than what most teams would do. I can't believe you a going after the sox on handling pitchers. If anything they do that fairly well.

It was true for Sale as well. As a matter of fact many teams didn't want to draft him for fear of injury with the odd mechanics. Edit: this is a response to caulfield12 changing my post. I don't know how to get that to appear.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 06:31 PM) Johnnies is my favorite beef, but Portillo's isn't bad, and a combo at Luke's is a treat. Best beefs ever where at the now closed Jimmy's in Arlington Heights. This is what I thought whenisaw the title.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 07:42 PM) Cooper has gotten him away from what made him a special talent I think it's a work in progress. H was walking far too many and they are working on things. I bet he is going through a dead arm period. He is throwing like he is tired.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 06:42 PM) If all that's true, why did no other organization think to convert him into a starter? Remember all the hype over Tyler Kolek two years ago? This is a guy with a similar large frame (albeit older) throwing over 100 MPH. Why wouldn't he be a Top 10-15 pick (for other teams)? I'm sure plenty though about it. Just like many thought Sale would only be a reliever due to his odd mechanics.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 09:02 PM) Because he doesn't have all the pitches to be a starter. And while the Sox think that they could make him into a starter, I haven't seen much out of them that that's a high priority. Hahn seems intent on rushing him up. And frankly, he sort of has to to justify #26. This makes no sense. He is on the Chris Sale path to the MLB and last I checked he transitioned from the bullpen to the rotation with the sox. The transition will mostly happen in the off season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 08:38 PM) He was 95-97/98 at different points his last time out. He was really throwing hard two starts ago. Don't get it. Could be a period of deadarm. All pitchers go through at a couple of points throughout the year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 22m22 minutes ago Sounds like there will be no timeline update on Jackson until after the All-Star break. Yeah, he should be playing within about 2 weeks of the AS break.