Dam8610

The only thing I don't like about these two is that the White Sox took another chance on an athlete with a sketchy hit tool when they've had a difficult time developing those players.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) #TankForBeer #BeerisGood

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 11, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) I was of the mind that we didn't have to trade Q, he could help the young pitchers, etc., etc. But now I think we do need to trade him. He's not going to get any better (probably not any worse either - but he could) and some teams need a starter very badly. I don't see his value increasing. Yea they could trade him at midseason...but at midseason teams want to buy an available starter for what he will do the rest of that year, with future years secondary. Much of the value of Q is what he will do for 4 years...that needs to be traded now. With the Astros, I would insist on Tucker; Tucker and one of those stud pitching prospects, plus some upside buys in the lower minors would be fine. Shields can help the young pitchers...needs to do something to earn his money; pitching to a decent 4th starter level would help as well. One of Jones or Robertson needs to be traded before the season; the other can be traded in July. If it's Robertson staying, he gets a chance to redeem for a mediocre 2016; if it's Jones, he gets an opportunity to show he can close. Given my druthers, I would prefer to move Jones now and Robertson in July; I think Robertson can improve his value more, worth the risk of further value deterioration. Abreu - trade him when you get a good offer. Frazier - we'll probably move him before the season and probably for not a great return. I would kind of prefer to hold onto him and watch.... Given that Frazier and Robertson won't, imo, bring back huge returns, we might want to look at a backstop, who's probably currently 2nd string, with a couple of years of experience, as part of the return. One who knows how to frame and play defense. Reed/Tucker/Martes/Stubbs?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 11, 2016 -> 09:19 AM) ^^^I'm still in awe with how incredible that defense was last year too. It wasn't passable, it wasn't good, it wasn't great...it was freaking incredible! He's a better defender than Addison Russell and it's not really close to the eye test. Never would have projected that in a million years. His offensive game is kind of old school and I'm looking for him to hold his mud this year and maybe break out in 2018. If his pattern on his path through MiLB continues, his breakout campaign will be 2017.

QUOTE (Soxcessful @ Dec 11, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) I must admit I'm a bit nostalgic for all of the sox front office is overmatched and incompetent posters..?What has impressed me the most about Hahn is that in this era of advanced metrics and computer enhanced scouting down to high schools almost everything about a player is known prior to a transaction. Major Trades are no longer simply an exchange of talent but more often exploiting need or finance to exploit and enhance already known value. Hahn has done a masterful job matching 2 or 3 teams against each other to meet his high but long established value of his players to get the uncompromised return he seeks.Quintana is worth the price established with Houston Atl Colorado etc but that price was known to those teams for some time. As Hahn has no financial or need to win pressure he can wait for those pressures to build on the buyers side and ultimately get his desired return. Simply by trading with the red sox and Nast he has subtly increased the need to win pressure on almost all in on Quintana and Robertson. Color me impressed with the team as a negotiator. Now we have to find out exactly who has been in charge of the recent major league talent evaluations and somehow include them in the package being sent off Didn't they make him third base coach?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) I think Robertson ends up in Washington For what?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 11:21 PM) 100% agree. I really hope neither guy signs with the Dodgers, that would be the best case scenario for us. I think Jansen signing with the Dodgers and Turner signing elsewhere works out best for the Sox. Robertson can block a deal to LAD, but not MIA. If the Dodgers are desperate for Frazier and the Marlins desperate for Robertson, Hahn could squeeze a nice return out of both teams.

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 09:59 PM) The way I look at it the Twins have not improved at all and will roughly be about the same. Cleveland will run away with the division again. Tigers will finish in second unless they sell off their stars (which could happen before the season or at the deadline, although I doubt it all together) so if the prospects make the impact that they should we will be competing with KC for 3rd place. Yes we lost our 2 best P's in my scenerio and our CF but I don't think it effects us as much as most people think. Our biggest problem was the offense (which should be the same or just slightly improved). Our bullpen can't be worse. So I forsee about the same results as last year, maybe a little regression. With KC they lost one of the most important players from their bullpen which was the strongest aspect of their team. Other than that they are about the same. Thus I see a little regression from them. Getting the #1 pick is the ideal outcome for jumpstarting this rebuild, so that's the outcome for which I'm hoping.

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 09:26 PM) I honestly believe that if the Sox trade Q for a great package then they will have a legit chance to improve on their finish from last year. I can see a 3rd place finish in the division or even 2nd depending on the performance of the prospects when they hit the big leagues. I want to be optimistic, but this is way too far. The Indians, Royals, and Tigers will all have much better 2017 teams. The Twins might even have a better 2017 team. Personally, I'm hoping the White Sox have the 2018 #1 pick. That will require every team to be better than the 2017 White Sox.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 08:16 PM) Josh Norris ‏@jnorris427 Source: Danny Espinosa has been traded from the #Nationals to the #Angels link Didn't get much for him, then.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) Yea I put Tucker + in my post so I don't know where you were getting at there. As iamshack said, they are lukewarm in including Martes as well. Then I suppose they and their fanbase can be fired up about those two not helping them win in the playoffs at all while the TOR starter they needed is pitching somewhere else.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) Anderson as a hitter screams Starling Marte to me. I'd take that level of production.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:54 PM) The recent Chapman and Jansen signings actually help the Sox from the standpoint of both limited closers on the market and it makes his 2 years, $24 million remaining contract seem far more palatable than it would have been 6 months ago for a team When did Jansen sign?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Really?! FIP is a far better stat than ERA to begin with as it takes fielding out of the picture WHIP is also really important I would look at those before saves and ERA which can be skewed and don't tell me much about performance I wish he were Andrew Friedman right about now.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 03:46 PM) Houston needs a TOP badly. They'd get mauled in the playoffs with McHugh and other clowns Apparently not bad enough to trade what it takes to get one.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) He's talking about Collins, not Severino. Yes, that's likely where the confusion happened.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) This probably answers my question as I was not aware he had a projectable bat. He's a bat first prospect, drew Kyle Schwarber comps.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) Here's the reality, the vast majority of people at a baseball game aren't there for the game. They're there for the attraction. You can still attract fans by making it reasonably priced and fun. It's not rocket science. The Bill Veeck method of selling baseball tickets.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:30 PM) Look, nobody likes a loser. Nobody's going to go to the ballpark to see a last-place team. I mean some folks who love prospects will go, maybe a couple thousand die hards, but considering how much it costs to go to a game, once the Sox are buried in the standings the Cell will be a morgue. If the rebuild works and someday they start winning, of course the fans will return. But if the Sox suck next season and are 8 out on May 1, forget it. The park will be empty and those who love prospects will be able to spread out and watch games in comfort. The park will be empty. As opposed to how jam packed it was last year?

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:22 PM) Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 1m1 minute ago The #Nationals tried to get #WhiteSox to expand the Adam Eaton trade to include closer Todd Frazier, but Sox refused, will deal separately "closer Todd Frazier". Did they want Frazier or Robertson? Also, I don't know why this wasn't done to get them to include Robles and a couple decent lottery tickets if it was Robertson.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:58 AM) Catching is at a huge premium because very few with a decent bat can stick at the position defensively. That is why we absolutely must be patient and try to develop Collins as a catcher If he can become good at framing and gamecalling, even if everything else about his defense is average, and his bat plays the way it projects according to scouts, he'll be one of the top Catchers in baseball.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:24 AM) The Sox have never done a full tear down and rebuild in the time I've been a Sox fan (early 90s as a kid) and while there has been an obvious, overt resistance to the idea from Reinsdorf and Kenny Williams, I always sensed from other Sox fans that they felt the fanbase wouldn't want to bother with it either. But so far in the past 48 hours I've seen mostly excitement, people are ready to get this started and see it through properly. What do y'all think? Am I off base here? I will be, but I doubt most will. Most will see seven names acquired and expect that those seven names will all be contributing to the ML club in a significant way very soon. When that doesn't happen, they'll want heads to roll, when anyone who knows anything about this knows that we'll be lucky to get five of these guys to be key pieces moving forward, and three are about the closest thing you can get to a lock in prospects. Anyone who realizes that this is a game of attrition, and that by acquiring 15-20 of the best 150 prospects in baseball, they are hoping that about half of them work out, as well as the talent they already had in the minors as well as hoping for a solid-good haul in the next three drafts, two of which will likely have top 5 picks for the White Sox, should be fine. If all of that works out, they could have 60-80% of a playoff caliber roster that is very cheap and cost controlled heading into the 2018 offseason, which would give them the ability to splurge in that historic class and potentially bring playoff baseball to the South Side by 2019, just in time for the new TV deal.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) Houston's starting pitching is shaky and not enough to contend in my opinion A package of Martes/Reed/Tucker/Stubbs would get it done for me in exchange for Q I don't feel that is unreasonable to request considering they are not putting Bregman in the deal I like Musgrove, they should put him in, too if no Bregman.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) http://tomahawktake.com/2016/12/06/2-moves...ake-after-sale/ This is one of the dumbest proposals that I have seen^^^ wow it's bad That might get Miguel Gonzalez.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) That's kind of the beauty of this trade, we don't need Giolito to even become a star to win the trade or break even. With the return we got, and the player that was dealt, I think there's much less risk of taking Giolito (compared to for Sale, etc) With the Sox track record, though, I like his and Lopez's chance of becoming TOR starters now than I did before.