chitownsportsfan

This is huge set back I'm not sure how you can spin it otherwise. You just lost anywhere from 5-20 WAR over the next 4 years off your club.

Relying on your 21-23 year old athletes to accurately report pain is a lesson that should have been learned last year with Lopez. Really just blows my mind in a billion dollar industry with a million, multi million dollar asset, possibly a triple digit million dollar asset you're not monitoring him more closely. There should be a dude bro trainer on every single team that parties with these guys, is their buddy, and can accurately access their pain levels. Failing that, they need to be doing EVERYTHING possible to inform these kids that pain is not weakness and to be honest. The Sox failed here, they failed the minute they let him make that start and probably they failed months earlier when he was pitching with soreness in AAA and nobody did a wellness check on him.

The Sox fucked up. I'm not gonna sit here and say I saw it coming. I didn't. But hindsight is 20/20 and trading for young arms was in hindsight a mistake.

just to talk shop for a minute when I was in my mid 20s and still thought I was a badass and would never get a serious injury this pro body builder saw me doing deadlifts at his gym and we ended up talking. His philosophy was that the lower back is already one of the strongest parts of your body just from all the other things you ask it to do in daily life and other lifts. His feeling on deadlifts (olympic bar) is that the risk to benefit ratio was too low to recommend as a lift. And as a pretty successful body builder with a crazy v torso obviously it didn't hold him back too much. so from that point on I just stopped doing olympic bar deadlifts and went to the trap bar.

vehemently disagree. not only is it correlated in this case it was in hindsight a causal relationship. He was throwing that speed because of the pain. I know you want to defend your peers but the Sox' trainers failed epically here. He should never have made that start. It probably wouldn't have mattered but you never know.

trap bar dead-lifts are probably one of the safest power lifts you can do, especially how Kopech is setup with the bar slightly raised off the ground. Personally I only do trap bar deadlifts now. much easier to lock in form and not round back and risk injury.

They did better than the Sox, that's for sure. They ID'd the pain and problem early, did a shitload of diagnostics and shut him down and did PRT and other therapy. They were pretty successful, getting him to the point where he made another start, but ultimately they had to shut him down and schedule the surgery. Contrast that to the situation we have here where you've got dimished velocity, a young kid in pain that doesn't want to show it (just like Lopez) and a coaching and training staff that is completely oblivious. I gotta question for @ptatc: let's say that as a young trainer working a prestigious MLB job you're watching Kopech warm up. You're watching him with eagle eyes, as it's your career at stake here and you see him grimacing. You ask the gun guy to put a gun on him and you're seeing 93-94. At this point, does it not BEHOOVE YOU to raise a red flag, send it up the ladder, raise a bit of an alarm? How the fuck did the Sox let Kopech make that start? Again, JASON BENETTI NOTICED IT IN THE BOOTH.

That's not at all what happened. Unlike with Kopech, the Red Sox ID's his pain early and had the top elbow docs in the country to examine him ASAP. Contrast that to the scenario here where Kopech is throwing 93 in warmups, grimacing in pain, and nobody is wiser. Staff is out to lunch, asleep at the wheel and absolutely clueless.

I've put down the Sox koolaid man. This is a dumpster fire scenario. Here I'm dead sober and at work for another couple hours so let me lay some things out: 1) The two guys you got in the Eaton trade have ERAs of 4.37 and 5.85, they have FIPS, if you like that, of 4.97 and 5.45. They have combined for 1.1 fWAR 2) The two main pieces of the Sale trade -- one is striking out 33% of the time. He has been below replacement since June. The other just blew out his UCL. The third piece is still 2-3 years away, if he ever makes it to MLB. 3) Your aging vets that you didn't trade are now dead weight on your roster and one is a non tender candidate. Furthermore, you've got 2-3 younger guys that can play 1B that will be edged out likely because you feel "loyalty" towards him and won't just let him go or trade him this offseason for a bag of balls. 4) Your handpicked manager, now your 2nd in a row (Hahn's watch) is routinely mocked for being one of the worst strategic managers in all of MLB. This is an almost universal opinion among Soxtalk regulars. We all see it on a nightly basis. 5) Your first round draft pick tore his Achilles twice. Again, who is monitoring his rehab? This is not some random guy that is likely to be in the Ind leagues in 5 years but your 1st round draft pick at position you currently have ZERO other options at in the minors. 6) You made a PR disaster of your own doing by saying one of the dumbest things I've ever heard from a CEO, sports or otherwise by saying your top prospect, who had a 210 wRC+ at the time in AAA, "needed to check more boxes" before coming up. Dude continues to be on fire and then you say "you're not developing a DH" and yadda yadda yadda. Said prospect is now considering a grievance and is from all indications pretty pissed. __________________________________________________________________ So yea, I will keep drinking, but not the Sox koolaid. Anybody that has read my posts the last decade + here knows I am usually a pretty optimistic fan by default. But I'm done. I can't fake it anymore. I've had pretty serious doubts about the rebuild all year long but was able to see a light perhaps at the end of the tunnel. That light is gone. The Sox just lost 5-10 WAR off their club until probably 2021. The rebuild has been set back at least a year. I can't do a 5-6 year rebuild. I don't think anybody can, well, except anybody working for JR. The checks still cash regardless. They ain't paying me tho.

David Price avoided UCL surgery because the Red Sox did a great job catching it early and letting him heal. It has happened before. TINSTAAPP is a nice little acronym but if it's 100% true than medical staffs and trainers have zero impact on pitchers health and should all be let go. Nobody believes that.

This staff's body of work sucks donkey dick. The data points keep coming in and as a bayesian I value the more recent data points exponetially more than the ones from 5-10 years ago. Cooper is living on borrowed time. So is this entire FO. Blow it up. Hahn has failed. The rebuild is a disaster right now. You've pissed off Eloy, you've blown out Kopech, you've not developed anybody to any degree of success this year and meanwhile you've got a softball coach as the manager.

ptatc can say for sure but this is something a would think a physical examination and strength test would catch, and then you'd do imagining.

Hey, I'm not the one writing the checks. But if I was I'd want to ask how nobody on my team said jack shit when he's out there in warm ups grimacing at 93-94mph. Just blame fate. Wonder how Luol Deng feels about JR's medical teams.

Seems a pretty radical assumption to absolve the Sox of all blame and just blame it on TINSTAAPP.

So he's been pitching with soreness for how long? And he was called up? And nobody ever thought to schedule an examination or imaging of his pitching arm? I'm telling you guys, this is another org wide failure. It wasn't "inevitable" and even, grant me this, even if it WAS INEVITABLE the way it was handled was abysmal. How. Are. You. Not. Monitoring. Him. More. Closely?

It's been a rough last two decades on my liver. Sorry liver we got more rough waters ahead.

and yet I haven't attacked a single poster here, only the FO.

Same team that developed Chris Sale only to trade him for a guy with a 33% k rate and now a guy with a torn UCL. Fuck this staff.

Gotta love how the guy in the booth that couldn't tell you his ass from his elbow baseball wise is more perceptive than the guys getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars down on the field that are entrusted with this team's future ace.

Fegan's tweet tells you everything you need to know about this staff. A lack of attention to detail has plagued the South Side going on a decade now. It continues.

Unreal. Staff is completely asleep at the wheel. Your prized prospect is out there fucking grimacing in warmups and not only do you let him start, you let him go back out after the delay. Inmates run the asylum on the South Side. Broom the FO please.

It's a "what have you done for me lately" business. Lately Cooper hasn't done jack shit to keep guys healthy.

Gotta love how they let Kopech do all his meathead training too in the offseason.

You know the thing about the old days? They the old days.

Remember this is the same staff that tried to turn Chris Sale into a "pitch to contact" guy. This staff is garbage. Yea, this event is a HUGE DATA POINT THAT THEY SUCK.