Milkman delivers

I'll echo my sentiments in the KW poll thread. I voted for Ozzie being on the hot seat next year. He's put together a few good seasons as a manager, but let's face the fact that his teams have vastly underachieved since 2005. So, if next year ends up being another bust, then it's time to cut him loose.

The blame game! Walker! Walker, Walker bo Balker Bonana fanna fo Falker Fee fy mo Malker, Walker! This thread doesn't even interest me. I haven't read any posts in it, but I still wanted to throw this in there.

Back to serious discussion. Has this clown been banned yet?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:09 AM) Honestly, I can see Kenny offering both JD and Thome a smallish extention, and keeping the first guy to sign it. Ehhh, yeah, you're right. I can see that happening, but I don't think I'd like it.

Can someone tell me the percentage of games Rios has started since being acquired?

QUOTE (Allsox @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) Rios has been bad this yr but it's possible he can rebound next yr and at least we don't have to wonder who's playing CF for awhile. I really believe Kenny's gonna get Figgins, play him at 3B and switch Beckham to SS with Alexei back to 2B. I also see him signing back Thome (We need some Lefty Thunder) and letting Dye go (Dye's last two 2nd halves have been awful and Figgins fills the leadoff spot perfectly.) He can maybe sign back Pods to bat in the 2-hole and play SOME LF with him gone by the 7th inning. Otherwise, I have lots of faith in Kenny to make us a better ballclub next yr. I guess I can see the Sox acquiring Figgins, but it'll cost us. And if we do get Figgins...hell, even if we don't, I think Alexei more than likely will be gone. I agree with the rest of your post. I voted for Kenny being on the hot seat next year. He's put together a solid team for the 2010 season on paper, but let's face the fact that his teams have vastly underachieved since 2005. So, if next year ends up being another bust, then it's time to cut him loose.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 04:37 PM) He's one of the bad cops - guy with the big nose and kind of balding head. He's in the car with Al Pacino about 30 or so minutes in? And again in a few scenes later. Hell, I haven't watched it so long I don't remember. He was in Scarface too - he worked with Al Pacino in 3 or 4 films. In Scarface, he's the cop that busts him when they're counting money. Damn, I wish I didn't already send it back. I'd like to have found that scene.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 06:17 AM) Unless something crazy happens this last month, I think Greinke should be a lock to win it. He's clearly been the best pitcher in the AL from start to finish. Even when he was 'struggling' in the middle of the season he was still pitching better than the majority of pitchers in baseball. He's got a lot going against him, though. One, he only has 13 wins. It's a shame. He's gotten some of the crappiest run support in baseball, and the defense behind him is well below average. Two, he's not a Yankee or Red Sock. Which means less deserving guys like Sabathia or Beckett could steal the award. I completely agree with you on all of that. And it would piss me off so much to see Beckett steal it.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:38 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1999773:date=Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:21 PM:name=whitesoxfan101)-->QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) <!--quotec-->That's not a very good statement about the 3rd basemen we've had in your time as a fan (and I know you have been a Sox fan for quite a while). It's definitely an indictment on the team's inability to fill the 3B position with a competent everyday player. Playing for the Sox from 1965 to 2009, played 70% of games at 3B, requiring at least 100 G, sorted by greatest OPS+: (100 = league average) OPS+ GAMES 1. 117 1254 Robin Ventura 2. 115 976 Bill Melton 3. 114 329 Eric Solderholm 4. 101 201 Herbert Perry 5. 93 798 Joe Crede 6. 90 410 Vance Law 7. 85 196 Josh Fields f***ing right, dude.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 09:42 AM) He was demoted to the bullpen again yesterday, according to Gonzalez. Let's see if it sticks this time.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:14 AM) Im just suprised we are only 5 games back. If the Sox somehow end this horrible road trip only 3 games back- were going to win this thing. This team is too talented to not be in this race to the end. Hopefully Ozzie's tirade will light that 'fire' thats been missing. Lets do this!!!!! Its not over yet!! Come on. They've shown no ability to come back and take this division this season. So because the Tigers' lead won't be ridiculous at the end of this road trip, the team will magically turn it on and close the gap?

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 12:19 AM) Serpico. My (great) uncle's in that. In which scene?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 11:03 PM) Jose already lost his job. He's been demoted to the bullpen. But apparently humiliating him by DFAing him with just one month left on his three-year deal is a better option because it'll save the Sox money. Oh wait, it won't. Ummm... because it'll create more roster space. Oh, no, that won't matter either, with the rosters expanding on Tuesday. Oh, I know, it'll allow the Sox to placate the angry and sadistic members of its fan base! Yeah, that sounds like a winning formula. Contrary to what you believe, the world doesn't revolve around the bottom line. Concepts such as effort, past performance, seniority, and class all play a role in the way that employees are evaluated and handled. Now that in no way means that Jose shouldn't suffer any negative consequences for pitching poorly. But he's already been demoted the bullpen. And with the rosters opening up in just two days, he won't be squeezing a more deserving player out of a roster spot. So there's no tangible benefit to kicking him off the team at this point. I'm sure that you'll be really disappointed when Jose is still employed by the Sox at this time next month. But if it makes you feel better, you can head over to his house and kick his dog around for a while. He was demoted to the bullpen only to be raised back to being a starter again, all before he threw a single pitch in relief.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 10:08 PM) Wow, what a horrible analogy. Let's first consider the fact that you're not paying the girl after you fire her. The Sox would still be paying Contreras for September if they let him go. And with the rosters expanding, demoting Contreras to the pen for mop-up duty makes quite a bit of sense. So DFAing these two would do nothing positive for the Sox. These people that supposedly work for you don't sound like highly-skilled workers, meaning that they can be easily replaced. With Peavy experiencing elbow problems, Richard and Poreda in SD, and Hudson not ready for prime time, Jose is not easily replaceable right now. In addition, this girl that you supposedly fired was obviously lazy and not putting in a good-faith effort to earn her paycheck. The same cannot be said about guys like Contreras and JD. Say what you want about those two, but they're proven professionals. If you treat those two types of workers in the same way, you're a pretty crappy manager. Wow, a lot of hostility in that post. I'll just let it be and state what I believe again. If you do poorly at your job, no matter if it's for lack of effort or just the necessary skills to accomplish it, you lose that job. And demonstrating to the other employees that they have to perform their duties correctly or else their job is on the line is just an added bonus. I suppose you do not agree with this method. That is your choice. Either way, I'll continue to do my job which I supposedly have when I return to said supposed job on Monday. Now, if you don't mind, I suppose I'll return to watching Serpico on my nice night off from going out. Supposedly.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 07:39 PM) Honestly, is that how you manage the people you preside over? When they fail do you get angry and can them? I was just as frustrated with this team as you apparently are, but DFAing Contreras and Linebrink does absolutely nothing good for us right now. The rosters expand Tuesday. They can sit on our big league club and attempt to work out their problems behind the scenes instead of for some other team (Mike MacDougal, David Aardsma, etc). I highly doubt it will matter in the end, but who knows - maybe this team has a run left in them - and if so, we're going to need everyone to get their s*** together and get on a roll. So DFAing will have to wait until the offseason. Clearly we can't DFA Linebrink. He's signed for too long. Either put him in only for garbage time, or send him to the minors to figure stuff out. And as it has been stated repeatedly, there's a huge difference between managing a baseball franchise and business. I assume some of you think I just go around firing people or screaming at them for the slightest mistake. That's not true at all. I almost never get upset about anything but the Sox. But, sometimes people need to be fired for not doing their job. I let somebody go earlier this week because she would never do her job. I'd have to physically sit her down and tell her what to do and when I walked away, she's stop working within five minutes and begin texting or daydreaming. When it became obvious that it was a constantly recurring problem, I told her to pack up and get out immediately after she had been warned repeatedly. Constantly screwing up and/or not doing your job = fired. This describes both the girl and Jose Contreras.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:41 PM) And in Ozzie and Kenny's opinion, yes. They realize that embarrassing a veteran for the sake of "sending a message" is counter-productive to building a winning franchise. You may be speaking a little early.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:36 PM) Yep, it'll say, "If you struggle down the stretch, we'll throw you under the bus." That's a message that will endear every prospective free agent to the White Sox. DFAing players out of spite at the end of August (with no tangible benefit to your organization) may sooth your anger and make you feel like a tough guy, but it's a really stupid way to run a baseball team. In your opinion, yes. In my opinion, no.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) Yeah, I'm sure. Which would be absolutely pointless, with the rosters expanding on Tuesday. Again, what you view as pointless would serve as a warning and kick in the ass to most other people.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Jose was their best option today. Not based on stuff or "2005nes" (whatever the hell that means). Who did you want, Carlos Torres? The minor leaguer who walks a ton of batters? Yeah, he would have won the game today against the Yankees in NY. Give me a break. Or would you have rushed Hudson up and threw him to the dogs in NY today? The guy who has struggled somewhat throwing an excess of pitches in his firt couple of AAA games? Smart. And to call up either one of those guys to pitch the Sox would have had to cut or DL someone. Who would you have cut? Lillibridge? Then they have no backup infielder. I know, you'd cut Contreras, right? That's the kind of classy thing a guy like you would do, I'll bet. Carrasco has excelled in the role he's been in, no need to mess up one of the two solid spots in the rotation just to spite Jose Contreras. And yes, there was a time when Contreras was the best pitcher on the Sox. Jose is a good man, was a great pitcher for the Sox for a period of time and led the Sox to a World Series Championship. He made a miraculous comeback from a potentially career ending injury and had some good games earlier this season for the Sox. To me, you don't kick a guy like that to the curb in late August, just to bring up a minor league pitcher who is likely to lose anyway. If Peavy was ready, Jose would have been out of the rotation and relegated to the bullpen. But since Peavy couldn't go, Jose was the best option to start today. Even in hindsight after the results of this game, he still was the best option. I expected the Sox to lose this game, although I did hold out some hope that Jose could have pitched one of his gems. He didn't pitch well. Big deal. I'm not a sore loser. Now I'm going to enjoy the rest of the day while you can brood about Jose Contreras ruining your life. Whoa. I almost want to stop reading right there. Having Carrasco start wouldn't be to spite Contreras, it would be to give the Chicago White Sox a better opportunity to win a baseball game.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:20 PM) I agree. These guys need to get called out. Calling players out is a lot different than permanently benching or DFAing them with a month to go in the season. But since you've obviously never managed another human being in a work environment before, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. Don't take it too seriously. It was a joke. But the things that Ozzie said do lead me to believe someone will be off of the team very soon. Also, my current job has me managing multiple human beings.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:01 PM) Today was just an awful game. It really makes you not want to watch this team at all. Very sad. I haven't watched 3 of the last 4 games. The only reason I watched last night was because it was on the TV in front of me at the bar.

QUOTE (DonkeyKongerko @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) Ozzie's response That is awesome. But this might be a mistake. The veterans on this team who have played for years and contributed to this team's World Series victory will be very upset and now nobody will sign here or accept trades to the South Side.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 04:15 PM) Today's performance should give this thread a boost. One hit against Sergio Mitre and Chad Gaudin at the best launching pad in baseball is not very good. Although, at the same time, I think this team has just quit in general, which goes far beyond the hitting coach. Oh yeah, definitely.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) Clearly Ozzie hasn't had CPR training because his team has been choking on a division about as tough as mashed potatoes for quite a while now and it's almost flatlined. I don't like a lot of Ozzie's in-game decisions and I think he's overrated as a game manager by Sox fans. But I love his attitude and fire most of the time, and those I think are the most important qualities in a manager, so he should stay. But he needs to f***ing blow up on this team and seriously start threatening jobs. The absolute WORST thing he can do is allow this s*** to be acceptable. Link, Nunez, Torres, Harrell, Whisler, etc. are already ON the 40-man roster. It doesn't matter whether they'll do well or not either. The Sox need to start sending messages by demoting players to Charlotte, and that should start with Contreras and Linebrink. Ozzie needs to make it known that jobs aren't safe. Sit Dye for a whole series. Send a f***ing message at least. I've been saying this for a while now. The players do not receive any comeuppance for lack of production and even effort.

Wouldn't that make them literally untradeable rather than "essentially" untradeable?