Milkman delivers

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:14 AM) Im just suprised we are only 5 games back. If the Sox somehow end this horrible road trip only 3 games back- were going to win this thing. This team is too talented to not be in this race to the end. Hopefully Ozzie's tirade will light that 'fire' thats been missing. Lets do this!!!!! Its not over yet!! Come on. They've shown no ability to come back and take this division this season. So because the Tigers' lead won't be ridiculous at the end of this road trip, the team will magically turn it on and close the gap?

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 12:19 AM) Serpico. My (great) uncle's in that. In which scene?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 11:03 PM) Jose already lost his job. He's been demoted to the bullpen. But apparently humiliating him by DFAing him with just one month left on his three-year deal is a better option because it'll save the Sox money. Oh wait, it won't. Ummm... because it'll create more roster space. Oh, no, that won't matter either, with the rosters expanding on Tuesday. Oh, I know, it'll allow the Sox to placate the angry and sadistic members of its fan base! Yeah, that sounds like a winning formula. Contrary to what you believe, the world doesn't revolve around the bottom line. Concepts such as effort, past performance, seniority, and class all play a role in the way that employees are evaluated and handled. Now that in no way means that Jose shouldn't suffer any negative consequences for pitching poorly. But he's already been demoted the bullpen. And with the rosters opening up in just two days, he won't be squeezing a more deserving player out of a roster spot. So there's no tangible benefit to kicking him off the team at this point. I'm sure that you'll be really disappointed when Jose is still employed by the Sox at this time next month. But if it makes you feel better, you can head over to his house and kick his dog around for a while. He was demoted to the bullpen only to be raised back to being a starter again, all before he threw a single pitch in relief.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 10:08 PM) Wow, what a horrible analogy. Let's first consider the fact that you're not paying the girl after you fire her. The Sox would still be paying Contreras for September if they let him go. And with the rosters expanding, demoting Contreras to the pen for mop-up duty makes quite a bit of sense. So DFAing these two would do nothing positive for the Sox. These people that supposedly work for you don't sound like highly-skilled workers, meaning that they can be easily replaced. With Peavy experiencing elbow problems, Richard and Poreda in SD, and Hudson not ready for prime time, Jose is not easily replaceable right now. In addition, this girl that you supposedly fired was obviously lazy and not putting in a good-faith effort to earn her paycheck. The same cannot be said about guys like Contreras and JD. Say what you want about those two, but they're proven professionals. If you treat those two types of workers in the same way, you're a pretty crappy manager. Wow, a lot of hostility in that post. I'll just let it be and state what I believe again. If you do poorly at your job, no matter if it's for lack of effort or just the necessary skills to accomplish it, you lose that job. And demonstrating to the other employees that they have to perform their duties correctly or else their job is on the line is just an added bonus. I suppose you do not agree with this method. That is your choice. Either way, I'll continue to do my job which I supposedly have when I return to said supposed job on Monday. Now, if you don't mind, I suppose I'll return to watching Serpico on my nice night off from going out. Supposedly.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 07:39 PM) Honestly, is that how you manage the people you preside over? When they fail do you get angry and can them? I was just as frustrated with this team as you apparently are, but DFAing Contreras and Linebrink does absolutely nothing good for us right now. The rosters expand Tuesday. They can sit on our big league club and attempt to work out their problems behind the scenes instead of for some other team (Mike MacDougal, David Aardsma, etc). I highly doubt it will matter in the end, but who knows - maybe this team has a run left in them - and if so, we're going to need everyone to get their s*** together and get on a roll. So DFAing will have to wait until the offseason. Clearly we can't DFA Linebrink. He's signed for too long. Either put him in only for garbage time, or send him to the minors to figure stuff out. And as it has been stated repeatedly, there's a huge difference between managing a baseball franchise and business. I assume some of you think I just go around firing people or screaming at them for the slightest mistake. That's not true at all. I almost never get upset about anything but the Sox. But, sometimes people need to be fired for not doing their job. I let somebody go earlier this week because she would never do her job. I'd have to physically sit her down and tell her what to do and when I walked away, she's stop working within five minutes and begin texting or daydreaming. When it became obvious that it was a constantly recurring problem, I told her to pack up and get out immediately after she had been warned repeatedly. Constantly screwing up and/or not doing your job = fired. This describes both the girl and Jose Contreras.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:41 PM) And in Ozzie and Kenny's opinion, yes. They realize that embarrassing a veteran for the sake of "sending a message" is counter-productive to building a winning franchise. You may be speaking a little early.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:36 PM) Yep, it'll say, "If you struggle down the stretch, we'll throw you under the bus." That's a message that will endear every prospective free agent to the White Sox. DFAing players out of spite at the end of August (with no tangible benefit to your organization) may sooth your anger and make you feel like a tough guy, but it's a really stupid way to run a baseball team. In your opinion, yes. In my opinion, no.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) Yeah, I'm sure. Which would be absolutely pointless, with the rosters expanding on Tuesday. Again, what you view as pointless would serve as a warning and kick in the ass to most other people.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Jose was their best option today. Not based on stuff or "2005nes" (whatever the hell that means). Who did you want, Carlos Torres? The minor leaguer who walks a ton of batters? Yeah, he would have won the game today against the Yankees in NY. Give me a break. Or would you have rushed Hudson up and threw him to the dogs in NY today? The guy who has struggled somewhat throwing an excess of pitches in his firt couple of AAA games? Smart. And to call up either one of those guys to pitch the Sox would have had to cut or DL someone. Who would you have cut? Lillibridge? Then they have no backup infielder. I know, you'd cut Contreras, right? That's the kind of classy thing a guy like you would do, I'll bet. Carrasco has excelled in the role he's been in, no need to mess up one of the two solid spots in the rotation just to spite Jose Contreras. And yes, there was a time when Contreras was the best pitcher on the Sox. Jose is a good man, was a great pitcher for the Sox for a period of time and led the Sox to a World Series Championship. He made a miraculous comeback from a potentially career ending injury and had some good games earlier this season for the Sox. To me, you don't kick a guy like that to the curb in late August, just to bring up a minor league pitcher who is likely to lose anyway. If Peavy was ready, Jose would have been out of the rotation and relegated to the bullpen. But since Peavy couldn't go, Jose was the best option to start today. Even in hindsight after the results of this game, he still was the best option. I expected the Sox to lose this game, although I did hold out some hope that Jose could have pitched one of his gems. He didn't pitch well. Big deal. I'm not a sore loser. Now I'm going to enjoy the rest of the day while you can brood about Jose Contreras ruining your life. Whoa. I almost want to stop reading right there. Having Carrasco start wouldn't be to spite Contreras, it would be to give the Chicago White Sox a better opportunity to win a baseball game.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:20 PM) I agree. These guys need to get called out. Calling players out is a lot different than permanently benching or DFAing them with a month to go in the season. But since you've obviously never managed another human being in a work environment before, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. Don't take it too seriously. It was a joke. But the things that Ozzie said do lead me to believe someone will be off of the team very soon. Also, my current job has me managing multiple human beings.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 05:01 PM) Today was just an awful game. It really makes you not want to watch this team at all. Very sad. I haven't watched 3 of the last 4 games. The only reason I watched last night was because it was on the TV in front of me at the bar.

QUOTE (DonkeyKongerko @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) Ozzie's response That is awesome. But this might be a mistake. The veterans on this team who have played for years and contributed to this team's World Series victory will be very upset and now nobody will sign here or accept trades to the South Side.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 04:15 PM) Today's performance should give this thread a boost. One hit against Sergio Mitre and Chad Gaudin at the best launching pad in baseball is not very good. Although, at the same time, I think this team has just quit in general, which goes far beyond the hitting coach. Oh yeah, definitely.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) Clearly Ozzie hasn't had CPR training because his team has been choking on a division about as tough as mashed potatoes for quite a while now and it's almost flatlined. I don't like a lot of Ozzie's in-game decisions and I think he's overrated as a game manager by Sox fans. But I love his attitude and fire most of the time, and those I think are the most important qualities in a manager, so he should stay. But he needs to f***ing blow up on this team and seriously start threatening jobs. The absolute WORST thing he can do is allow this s*** to be acceptable. Link, Nunez, Torres, Harrell, Whisler, etc. are already ON the 40-man roster. It doesn't matter whether they'll do well or not either. The Sox need to start sending messages by demoting players to Charlotte, and that should start with Contreras and Linebrink. Ozzie needs to make it known that jobs aren't safe. Sit Dye for a whole series. Send a f***ing message at least. I've been saying this for a while now. The players do not receive any comeuppance for lack of production and even effort.

Wouldn't that make them literally untradeable rather than "essentially" untradeable?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) LOL, that is Arnold Schwarzenegger in the middle, obviously Andre on the right, and Arnie's co-star from Conan the Destroyer(in his costume), Wilt Chamberlain. Oh wow. I wouldn't have ever guessed it was Arnold. The picture is so small that he honestly looks like HBK to me.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) At least Dye and Konerko weren't this bad back then. That is true, but their good numbers were offset by the likes of Fields, Lillibridge, Betemit, etc. receiving regular playing time.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 02:28 PM) Sorry I didn't answer. I definitely feel that way since the ASB. Oh man, I've felt this way since the beginning of the season.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:35 PM) How many other people on this board notice that there is AT LEAST one game per week where you just give thanks that the White Sox weren't no-hit? This is one of them. And I am as serious as I can be, there is one a week. Seriously, am I the only person who feels this way? I actually take solace on a weekly basis that we achieved not being no-hit.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:58 PM) You don't fire the hitting coach because the aging sluggers in the middle of the lineup aren't producing. The only "message" that sends is that Kenny and JR will throw their coaching staff under the bus when the players don't produce. You're going to have difficulty convincing a good hitting coach to accept a job with the Sox when they have that reputation. Doing something for the sake of doing something is an emotional, illogical, and unprofessional approach to running a business. I understand that this is your opinion, but it happens in baseball fairly often. Hell man, Walker's been on this staff for how many years now? At least five. That's probably a pretty good tenure for a hitting coach.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) Out of our entire pitching staff I think we only have 5 guys worth keeping for next year, not counting Glass Joe in the minors. Floyd Danks Buehrle Carrasco Thornton My thoughts exactly.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) Guys, I see absolutely NO WAY we trade Alexei in the offseason. No way. The reason is the guy seems to be a .275 20 and 80 guy in the MIDDLE INFIELD making only ONE MILLION per year. How much would we pay for this production at the middle infield in the market? We need guys like this to offset the big contracts of Rios, Peavy, Paulie, etc. This guy is a bargain. That said, I agree, move AR back to 2B (I thought he was above average there last year) and Beckham to SS. Dye to DH and get another outfielder. 3B to be decided My .02 Dye is not coming back.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) Yeah, no kidding. This team has awful fundamentals. I honestly can't see Nix in the 2010 starting lineup at SS or 2B. He's looked average-to-below-average at 2B and was nothing short of a butcher at SS. And it's really unfortunate, because he has a ton of fielding talent, a lot of power at the plate, and is hitting relatively well right now. He's clearly the better option over Getz

How many other people on this board notice that there is AT LEAST one game per week where you just give thanks that the White Sox weren't no-hit? This is one of them. And I am as serious as I can be, there is one a week.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 01:28 PM) Is it just me or do the sox all of a sudden look like David in the David vs. Goliath battle. We look like some epic underdog that just cant really do anything right and are trotting out supreme less talent. I mean not only does it look the sox cant get out of their own way at any given point, but this recent east coast road trip has just really shown how much less quality of players we really have. Not like its surprising that when you trot out guys named Garcia, Contreras, Linebrink, Randy Williams, etc you get your butts kicked, but this is getting ridiculous. Though some of me is really glad its happening right now after hearing KW saying how underachieving this team is. Its becoming more apparent that they are not that underachieving, they are just not that good of a squad. Their are way too many scrubs on this roster, period. The good news is its not masked under the crappy AL Central anymore, its out there for all to see. And now Kenny & Co. see just how much needs to be changed and improved next year to have a chance. No more aging pitchers whose Velocity is way down, no more Pitchers who cant field their position, no more talentless No Names in the bullpen, possibly no more Alexi at short, the possibility of not bringing back both Dye and Thome, looking for more hit for avg, less power, less slump prone like players. Its all out there for us and the mgmt to see. I actually think this recent east coast butt kicking might be good for the sox, it could just simply force some "Good for the sox" changes. You kind of rambled there for a while , but I think I got the majority of what you were getting at. The bold part is the most important part and yes, I agree with you on it.